Some autos I won at a local auction for $10

[bullgill]

I was in disbelief when I was the starting bidder at $5 pet lot. And won them for the starting bid. Not the first time I have done this at this auction though. Are these legit autos? The print is exactly 8x10 and under the matting it is copyrighted. Thanks for any help.[IMG][/IMG]

[Duluth Eskimo]

Photo is a fake.

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Photo is a fake.

It's not a photo, it is an art print that apparently came in two different sizes. It is however printed on photo paper.

[rand1com]

The Mantle, Mays, and Snider autographs are bad forgeries. Makes no difference photo or print.

The baseball is tougher to tell as the picture is blurred. It could be authentic but would need a clear picture to be sure.

[Exhibitman]

All forged.

[Bpm0014]

You spent $9 too much...

[keithsky]

Red flag would be that you got it for $5.

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Red flag would be that you got it for $5.

This was the same auction where I have gotten countless real deal autos, Al Simmons team signed red sox for $7, Hank Aaron for $3, and many more. Not to mention the probably 1/4 million in stuff I have sold that I have won at the same auction over the last 15 years of going every week. So it would not have surprised me to get them so cheap.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by bullgill

This was the same auction where I have gotten countless real deal autos, Al Simmons team signed red sox for $7, Hank Aaron for $3, and many more. Not to mention the probably 1/4 million in stuff I have sold that I have won at the same auction over the last 15 years of going every week. So it would not have surprised me to get them so cheap.

If you have gotten some great deals there, then it definitely makes sense to take a flier like this. Hopefully the next round is better.

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

If you have gotten some great deals there, then it definitely makes sense to take a flier like this. Hopefully the next round is better.

They are supposed to be getting allot more in, and I will be there
There were tons of cards but nothing pre 1978 and I just can't wrap my head around that much junk and pick out the goods. I looked for jersy cards and stuff but found none, there were some slabbed ones that used to be expensive in the 90's. Personally I think the photo is probably too good to be true but there are some out there that passed psa authentication and sold for around $500. I think the ball is legit though. It is a sloppy auto but my gut tells me it is legit for that reason and it has age to it (exactly like I like my balls) lol. I'm not the type of person to try to dupe people but I'm pretty sure I can get at least $100 off the photo and somebody can take a chance. I see plenty of the same photo selling that even to my untrained eyes are forgeries, considering I can find at least 10 examples of each auto that are identical.

The main reason why I don't like the photo is the fact that the sigs do not look felt tipped, they are too solid also the same photo seems to have many fakes floating around. I am kind of wondering though, how old this "fake" is, from the looks of the photo it looks original when it was printed in 1986, looks to have some age to it. The obvious fakes to even my eyes are not on photo paper and even lack the copyright, the ones that generally sell for between $30-$125. Apparently these "photos" came in three sizes, 28x22 & 10x8 & 11x13. I would be interested in knowing why the others think it is no good as well other than the fact it was had for $5.

Here is one that passed inspection, purportedly and sold for $600.

https://showpiecessports.com/collect...o-with-jsa-coa

[robw1959]

The Mantle and Mays signatures look pretty good to me. Here is my Mike Baker authenticated 8X10 glossy photo of them for comparison.

[bullgill]

I'm going to send both of these into psa/dna and wish for the best. I'll let you all know how it goes.

[Fballguy]

I'm so glad I don't collect autographs.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I'm so glad I don't collect autographs.

+1 I am so glad I sold the majority of mine when the signed T206 scandal hit and no longer buy any.

[gonefishin]

Hi there. Just wondering why you ask the forum for their opinion and everyone said "No Good", and you're still sending to PSA? Why ask for the opinion? Is it to prove everyone wrong or just hoping for the best?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by bullgill

It's not a photo, it is an art print that apparently came in two different sizes. It is however printed on photo paper.

ink jet printing on photo paper didn't exist in Mantle's lifetime. So even if the autographs weren't terrible, it's fake.

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

ink jet printing on photo paper didn't exist in Mantle's lifetime. So even if the autographs weren't terrible, it's fake.

He died in 1995, all of these guys signed stuff well into the 1980's. That is why they have so much stuff that they signed. Inkjet printing was invented in the 70's probably by polaroid. see above, the same photo signed by all three and certified by JSA.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

ink jet printing on photo paper didn't exist in Mantle's lifetime. So even if the autographs weren't terrible, it's fake.

There is no reason facts should get in the way of a sale for profit. Like the OP said they can find a sucker, wait I mean a complete moron, no that wasn't it either, oh yes a collector willing to take a chance at $100 for a nice profit because really that is all that matters.

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by bnorth

There is no reason facts should get in the way of a sale for profit. Like the OP said they can find a sucker, wait I mean a complete moron, no that wasn't it either, oh yes a collector willing to take a chance at $100 for a nice profit because really that is all that matters.

If you read what I posted, I am not in the business of duping people. I have not had a return or negative feedback on ebay for at least 10 years of selling everything from antiques to modern. This is the main reason why I want to send these sigs in for authentication. Not just for monetary reasons but for integrity. I have posted this for honest opinions and only received negativity with no explanations. This is not an obvious fake in my opinion, there are several examples of authenticated pieces of the same photo and would like an explanation as to why these seem like a forgery. If I can get at least some explanation as to why they are forgeries I will toss them in the trash. The photo is an original 1986 glossy print on photo paper. Just as this one that was JSA certified. https://showpiecessports.com/collect...o-with-jsa-coa

[Klrdds]

The signatures are not good . The best and easiest evidence for an explanation in order to keep it simple is simply to compare your photo’s signatures to the ones on the link you last posted of that item with the JSA cert . Anyone comparing them can easily see the signature discrepancies between your piece and the JSA certed one . The differences are glaring and easily discerned .

[bullgill]

To my eyes, these are fake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35584543586...Bk9SR8iy_LOaZA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36495774409...Bk9SR8qy_LOaZA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31513296627...Bk9SR8qy_LOaZA

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

The signatures are not good . The best and easiest evidence for an explanation in order to keep it simple is simply to compare your photo’s signatures to the ones on the link you last posted of that item with the JSA cert . Anyone comparing them can easily see the signature discrepancies between your piece and the JSA certed one . The differences are glaring and easily discerned .

when you sign a check, does it look identical every time?

I want a real deal explanation on why these do not stack up. The pen used is my biggest concern followed by the Mays sig that is unusual but within perimeters, except for I can not find the W in Willie that looks like that.

[bullgill]

same size, same kind of photo paper.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29637753955...Bk9SR-Se5bWaZA

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

ink jet printing on photo paper didn't exist in Mantle's lifetime. So even if the autographs weren't terrible, it's fake.

Here is a photo from 1989, clearly inkjet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36495530584...Bk9SR-ae5bWaZA

[Lordstan]

IMO, the litho is not good. Why? Because there are things about the autos that look off. Most people on the forum will not go into details as to why for a couple reasons.
1) No one wants to educate scammers on how to make their forgeries better
(not saying you a scammer, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think scammers watch sites like this, and others, to get tips on how to make their scams work better.)
2) No one wants to get into an argument with someone about about their opinion on an auto. If I say, I don't like the slant on a letter, then someone else chimes in they like it and now there is a back and forth about it. It's been done in the past. It's gotten messy and after a time, we just stopped doing it.

As Kevin pointed out, there are multiple differences between the good ones you posted and yours.

We each have our reasons for saying what we do. You can either trust the expertise of those here or not. No one here owes anyone else an explanation. Heck, even if you send to PSA and they fail it, they wont give you any explanation other than their standard form letter about flow, pressure, formation, etc.
It really shouldn't be a shock for someone to question why you are sending it in after pretty much everyone chimed in that it was bad. I guess it would make more sense to us if you got mixed opinions and waned a tie breaker. I am sure you can see why it might come off a little insulting to have everyone give he same opinion and then you disregard it.

Also, Just remember, that PSA does not certify or guarantee an item is authentic. They offer opinions only, just like us. Even then, you have no idea who actually is giving it. Is it a kid who just got hired 6 months ago or someone with 20yrs experience? No one knows.

BTW, I agree with you, the three you posted in that single message yesterday are all bad.

[doug.goodman]

Mark -

The OP, possibly the Ponce de Leon of autograph collectors, has 56 posts on the forum going back 10 years and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is a question asking for help about the identity or value of an autograph he has picked up at some mysterious auction that I assume is based in St. Augustine, FL.

We seem to have a number of his ilk on the forum these days, causing me to learn that with five easy keystrokes I can block them and never be subjected to their posts ever again.

A tutorial :
Click on his name
Click "view public profile"
Click "user lists"
Click "Add to Ignore List"
Click "Yes"

Done

Easy.

Doug "full name added after bad mouthing a member" Goodman



PS - hehehehe I said 'member'...which is a euphemism for, oh nevermind

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by robw1959

The Mantle and Mays signatures look pretty good to me. Here is my Mike Baker authenticated 8X10 glossy photo of them for comparison.

you know better Rob, LOL...

To the OP,

From the Fake Mike Baker Collection. We haven't had to roll that one out for quite a while. Not as good as the "Pork chop finger pointing version" from the same wonderful collection.

Why does the chimpanzee want to waste 100 doll hairs when they are clearly fake? How about studying Mantle for a few weeks and coming to your own EASY decision. Stop it already.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Mark -

The OP, possibly the Ponce de Leon of autograph collectors, has 56 posts on the forum going back 10 years and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is a question asking for help about the identity or value of an autograph he has picked up at some mysterious auction that I assume is based in St. Augustine, FL.

We seem to have a number of his ilk on the forum these days, causing me to learn that with five easy keystrokes I can block them and never be subjected to their posts ever again.

A tutorial :
Click on his name
Click "view public profile"
Click "user lists"
Click "Add to Ignore List"
Click "Yes"

Done

Easy.

Doug "full name added after bad mouthing a member" Goodman



PS - hehehehe I said 'member'...which is a euphemism for, oh nevermind

Doug "Thanks for the info" Goodman

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bullgill

same size, same kind of photo paper.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29637753955...Bk9SR-Se5bWaZA

difference is...this one is real. The one you posted is a clear FAKE. Print this one out and do some comparisons on your own. You should be able to see the differences in one eye blink. Otherwise, I strongly suggest you stay the Hell away from autographs. Enjoy the ride and don't take it personally. Do something about your own deficiencies and don't blame others.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Hi there. Just wondering why you ask the forum for their opinion and everyone said "No Good", and you're still sending to PSA? Why ask for the opinion? Is it to prove everyone wrong or just hoping for the best?

cause he likes to burn money and has a "listening to others that know more" problem.

[bullgill]

Wow, did not mean to upset anybody. Apologies if I did! I respect this forum and it has been a good asset over the years.

[philliesfan]

I have no idea if the signatures are good or not but, it may be a photocopy?
I am not sure but the first thing I would do is to look at it under light so you can see the glare on the picture from the light. If the glare is the same on the photo as it is on the signature, then they are not original signatures. The Sharpie would have a different kind or no obvious glare. At least I think this may be right?
Bob

[etsmith]

The autographs look really off from authentic examples, but it's sometimes hard to explain it in plain terms.

[bullgill]

Both of these came from the same lot as this one. If maybe that adds some provenance.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...85#post2451485

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 I am so glad I sold the majority of mine when the signed T206 scandal hit and no longer buy any.

Not trying to be a contrarian here, and no question caution is required when collecting autographs. BUT...how many fake signed t206s got past SGC, wasn't it on the order of a dozen or so and a couple more from PSA? Whatever it was, in the total universe of authenticated autographs, I think the applicable phrase might be negligible bordering on infinitesimal, so I don't see how that would sour anybody on one of the great hobbies in the world. Maybe if you were one of those victimized, but even so it wouldn't seem to be on the level of buying a house with plumbing that all had to be replaced, so you're never going to buy another house? No, you'll learn a lesson and move on, that's all.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Not trying to be a contrarian here, and no question caution is required when collecting autographs. BUT...how many fake signed t206s got past SGC, wasn't it on the order of a dozen or so and a couple more from PSA? Whatever it was, in the total universe of authenticated autographs, I think the applicable phrase might be negligible bordering on infinitesimal, so I don't see how that would sour anybody on one of the great hobbies in the world. Maybe if you were one of those victimized, but even so it wouldn't seem to be on the level of buying a house with plumbing that all had to be replaced, so you're never going to buy another house? No, you'll learn a lesson and move on, that's all.

I didn't have a very big collection. I am not a fan of grading in any form unless I am selling something. I honestly didn't want to put in the time to learn to be confidant in my own judgement to buy more. So for me I just sold most of what I had and have never looked back.

[rjackson44]

these look like autos that are sold in malls at the back of the sporting goods store. one more horrible then the other

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by robw1959

The Mantle and Mays signatures look pretty good to me. Here is my Mike Baker authenticated 8X10 glossy photo of them for comparison.

FYI, This is a forgery too.

[WhatsNext]

If you really need a detailed explanation on why the original photo is fake (I suspect the OP does not actually care and will try to resell this trash regardless), there are a couple of easy tells, including:

1. The 'a' in Mantle has an open loop which authentic signatures never have.

2. The Snider signature is incredibly shaky and slow - you can see where the forger stopped and started (he was probably inexperienced with imitating Snider).

3. The Mays is a style employed commonly by forgers and doesn't match the style of signature Mr. Mays commonly used in the 90s when this would have been signed. Also, it would have been somewhat unusual for Mays to stack his first and last names on a photo instead of signing in a straight line, that style is more common on cards and items with limited space.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by WhatsNext

If you really need a detailed explanation on why the original photo is fake (I suspect the OP does not actually care and will try to resell this trash regardless), there are a couple of easy tells, including:

1. The 'a' in Mantle has an open loop which authentic signatures never have.

2. The Snider signature is incredibly shaky and slow - you can see where the forger stopped and started (he was probably inexperienced with imitating Snider).

3. The Mays is a style employed commonly by forgers and doesn't match the style of signature Mr. Mays commonly used in the 90s when this would have been signed. Also, it would have been somewhat unusual for Mays to stack his first and last names on a photo instead of signing in a straight line, that style is more common on cards and items with limited space.

Yep already said that was his plan in post 10.

[balltrash]

While this may appear, for some reason, to be on inkjet paper - it is not. These prints were done on heavy stock paper and are typically larger however someone trimmed this one down to a size which would allow for it to fit in a PSA holder.

Originally Posted by bullgill

Here is a photo from 1989, clearly inkjet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36495530584...Bk9SR-ae5bWaZA

[doug.goodman]

The best thing about this thread, for me, is that I have blocked bullshit (I think that's his name, right?) so I am unable to see his posts, and seeing the "This user is on your Ignore List" note makes me smile

[Republicaninmass]

Serious note

Everyone and their brother knows "you can make money selling sports collectibles."

There is not one auction where there isn't at least one person willing to take a risk. This post proves it. Had there been an underbidder, or even a shill, this would have gone higher on the allure "one could be real".

The advent of ebay, news stories real and fake, online auction platforms etc have made it 99% impossible for any items to go unnoticed. More so for a novice collector.

So take this advice, as I put in my 2 cents, it's worth what you paid for it .

It's hard to cheat an honest man
If its too good to be true, it probably isn't.


And all the others you've heard your whole life

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Serious note

I was also being serious

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I didn't have a very big collection. I am not a fan of grading in any form unless I am selling something. I honestly didn't want to put in the time to learn to be confidant in my own judgement to buy more. So for me I just sold most of what I had and have never looked back.

Sure, that makes sense in that we all make our judgements about what we want to put our money into collecting and what we don't, i.e., what does it for us and what doesn't. My point was just that for those for whom autographs do it, the advent of grading by top experts is a godsend that assures a degree of reliability approaching certainty. The difference in the value of graded versus ungraded examples demonstrates conclusively where the market stands on the issue.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

The best thing about this thread, for me, is that I have blocked bullshit (I think that's his name, right?) so I am unable to see his posts, and seeing the "This user is on your Ignore List" note makes me smile

The block feature is a beautiful thing. Be nice to have one in real life.

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by WhatsNext

If you really need a detailed explanation on why the original photo is fake (I suspect the OP does not actually care and will try to resell this trash regardless), there are a couple of easy tells, including:

1. The 'a' in Mantle has an open loop which authentic signatures never have.

2. The Snider signature is incredibly shaky and slow - you can see where the forger stopped and started (he was probably inexperienced with imitating Snider).

3. The Mays is a style employed commonly by forgers and doesn't match the style of signature Mr. Mays commonly used in the 90s when this would have been signed. Also, it would have been somewhat unusual for Mays to stack his first and last names on a photo instead of signing in a straight line, that style is more common on cards and items with limited space.

That is valuable information, probably saved me a couple bucks.

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Serious note

Everyone and their brother knows "you can make money selling sports collectibles."

There is not one auction where there isn't at least one person willing to take a risk. This post proves it. Had there been an underbidder, or even a shill, this would have gone higher on the allure "one could be real".

The advent of ebay, news stories real and fake, online auction platforms etc have made it 99% impossible for any items to go unnoticed. More so for a novice collector.

So take this advice, as I put in my 2 cents, it's worth what you paid for it .

It's hard to cheat an honest man
If its too good to be true, it probably isn't.


And all the others you've heard your whole life

sometimes if it is to good to be true, it isn't. I just bought something from this same auction that I bought for $2 and sold for $400.. any idea on if the wheaties mantle that I found there is genuine or not?

[bullgill]

Originally Posted by balltrash

While this may appear, for some reason, to be on inkjet paper - it is not. These prints were done on heavy stock paper and are typically larger however someone trimmed this one down to a size which would allow for it to fit in a PSA holder.

Thank you for the info.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

The block feature is a beautiful thing. Be nice to have one in real life.

Yes, it certainly is beautiful :

I'll bet I've been blocked a few times, hahahaha.