Buying my first Old Judge (OJ) card - advice?

[Belfast1933]

I have always appreciated getting advice here from collectors who have vastly more experience than me in areas that interest me.

I have always admired the Old Judge (OJ) cards but have never pulled the trigger or put a ton of thought into it - perhaps, until now.

I am a HOF collector and also a Boston local/fan so I would probably narrow my choices that way - I also have seen how faded images can be and wouldn’t be willing to spend $$ on a card without a sharp image.

I’m not too worried about the grade - an “authentic” would be fine… numerical is better, of course.

And lastly - some of the fun cards have great and super cheesy poses, sliding into bases, hanging fly balls on a string and I have also heard some like the “hot dog” brand included on some cards.

My budget is not terribly impressive but I could probably sell enough to get something in the $1500-2000 range.

I’d love and welcome thoughts and advice as I start my Old Judge journey!

Thx all

Jeff

[BioCRN]

They're small. Get one that looks good to you.

Even if the centering is awesome (if you're a centering person) a faded out one can be a bit of a letdown. Image sharpness can be all over the place, even on ones that are technically in good condition.

If you go for a slabbed one, you can find really nice ones for relative deals if they have back damage. There's nothing on the backs on OJ's. This is a dealbreaker for some and for someone like me, if the front looks sharp and there's paper loss on the back I'm picking it up.

[oldjudge]

Buy a copy of the Old Judge book from Kevin in the BST and read it before you spend any money. It will help you appreciate what you are buying and may help you avoid a costly mistake in the future. Good luck!,

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Buy a copy of the Old Judge book from Kevin in the BST and read it before you spend any money. It will help you appreciate what you are buying and may help you avoid a costly mistake in the future. Good luck!,

I would second this, it will give you perspective on what's actually out there to chase.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Buy a copy of the Old Judge book from Kevin in the BST and read it before you spend any money. It will help you appreciate what you are buying and may help you avoid a costly mistake in the future. Good luck!,

what a great idea... I will do that.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

don't buy from Dean's Cards?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Keep in mind that not all HOFers are created equal in the OJ set. Your budget could get you a fraction of an Ed Delahanty or several Tommy McCarthys.

[Fred]

Image quality is #1. Assuming that alterations (reback, trimmed) are already precluded.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Fred

Image quality is #1. Assuming that alterations (reback, trimmed) are already precluded.

I agree 100%. TPGs don’t take the image quality into account. I would guess it is because it would add yet another layer of subjectivity. In the case of OJs, they are not really card graders, merely paper graders.

[shoreball51]

I agree with Jay. Researching what you put may put your capital towards will make you more aware of why you make your decisions. Hoping you enjoy the journey.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Buy a copy of the Old Judge book from Kevin in the BST and read it before you spend any money. It will help you appreciate what you are buying and may help you avoid a costly mistake in the future. Good luck!,

That book is the OJ Bible. Probably one of the best books, if not the best when considering a single card issue. The price that Kevin is selling it for is a BARGAIN.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by Fred

That book is the OJ Bible. Probably one of the best books, if not the best when considering a single card issue. The price that Kevin is selling it for is a BARGAIN.

100%. Got mine last week and can't put it down.

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Buy a copy of the Old Judge book from Kevin in the BST and read it before you spend any money. It will help you appreciate what you are buying and may help you avoid a costly mistake in the future. Good luck!,

This is sound advice. It's a beautify produced book and one of the top three in my hobby library. Every time I crack mine open I learn something new.

Advice from myself: Focus on image quality over technical grade. I promise you'll be happier with the card while in your collection, and it will be easier to sell when that time comes.

[Angyale]

know your wantlist. It could end up costing you a ton of money down the road…..

Angyale

[JollyElm]

478. “Loose lips sink flips.”
The time honored maxim that it is best not to be too forthcoming in letting people know what hard-to-find cards you’re actively pursuing, because anyone having one of those cards will know they now have you over a barrel.

[oldjudge]

The hard to find cards are listed in the book. There are very few mysteries associated with the set for those who care to look. I suggest you be forthcoming with friends who might help you find cards you are looking for.

[ejharrington]

Image quality trumps all on OJ.

[autograf]

There's tons of Authentic cards out there (PSA/SGC) that are so much nicer than EX graded cards. Image quality (as mentioned here a LOT) is paramount. Another thing is look around and check recent sales on ebay, Heritage, REA and other auction sites to really gauge what they're going for right now. Like someone said, HOFers seem to be all over the place.

[Belfast1933]

Thx to all for the advice… I will I’ll look for Kevin’s book and clearly the image quality is where my focus and $$ will go

I also like the idea of finding an “A” card with a nice image quality - this is for my PC so I’m not really worried too much about the grade on the slab.

Thx again all

Jeff

[Baseball Rarities]

Would love to take credit for the Old Judge book, but I am only selling them. Board members Jay Miller, Richard Masson and Joe Gonsowski are the ones who created this incredible book. Kevin Cummings also chipped in with the wonderful player biographies.

Here is a link if anyone is interested in picking one up.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=337137

[oldjudge]

Both Kevin Cummings and John Dreker worked with me on the player profiles. Please don't forget John.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Both Kevin Cummings and John Dreker worked with me on the player profiles. Please don't forget John.

Thanks Jay. I am out of town for a few days and totally whiffed.

Sorry John!

[alywa]

Totally agree with Jay about buying the OJ book... it is the single best hobby resource I've ever seen. It really is the OJ Bible.

Agree on image quality. TPG grades mean very little when it comes to N172/3/5 cards.

If you're on FB, Old Judge Collectors is a great group. There are many passionate, knowledgeable and helpful collectors there.

A word of warning... N172s are addictive.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Both Kevin Cummings and John Dreker worked with me on the player profiles. Please don't forget John.

Let me guess, John wrote the Larry Corcoran bio...

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by alywa

Agree on image quality. TPG grades mean very little when it comes to N172/3/5 cards.

They're really all over the place if you compare the treatment of OJ's to other cards.

There's more than a few cards with obvious chips of the front image missing (with the background cardboard still intact) getting a number grade that would get knocked into AUTH or 1 territory with other card issues.

Also, because of how we (and they) accept how they were cut you see cards that would be considered "miscut" if they were other cards issues getting a number grade.

Example...

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Fred

Let me guess, John wrote the Larry Corcoran bio...

I did, how did you know? I finally won one of his cards today as well thanks to Dean's Cards

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

They're really all over the place if you compare the treatment of OJ's to other cards.

There's more than a few cards with obvious chips of the front image missing (with the background cardboard still intact) getting a number grade that would get knocked into AUTH or 1 territory with other card issues.

Also, because of how we (and they) accept how they were cut you see cards that would be considered "miscut" if they were other cards issues getting a number grade.

Example...

The cards were hand cut so a miscut here or there is not surprising. Your example illustrates two other things though. First, the card is obviously from 1890. When it comes to putting the correct issue date on the cards graders are either ignorant of the facts or lazy or a combination of both. Second, photo quality, the most important thing for Old Judge cards, is largely ignored in the grading process. It's not that your card has a bad photo for its' type, most 1890 cards have bad photos, but that fact should be reflected in the grade nonetheless.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The cards were hand cut so a miscut here or there is not surprising. Your example illustrates two other things though. First, the card is obviously from 1890. When it comes to putting the correct issue date on the cards graders are either ignorant of the facts or lazy or a combination of both. Second, photo quality, the most important thing for Old Judge cards, is largely ignored in the grading process. It's not that your card has a bad photo for its' type, most 1890 cards have bad photos, but that fact should be reflected in the grade nonetheless.

Bad labeling on years is so rampant. Skipping the obvious ("1948" Leaf), there's a ton more...such as 1927 W560 which has a Rogers Hornsby - Chicago that could only be a 1929 at the earliest.

Fading is also something long ignored by TPG. I've seen some hardcore sun damaged and faded 60s cards go out to be slabbed and the graded ignoring the fading. The images weren't only weak, they had practically become another color in some areas because of the sun/display lighting damage.