Early Hall Discussion:

[clydepepper]

I think there are 2 shoo-ins and three other deserving candidates of the upcoming ballot:

Todd Helton got of 72% last year and nobody who has received that high a percentage did not get in.

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Adrian Beltre can be viewed as a career accumulator, but 3,000 hits still gets you a golden pass.

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Andruw Jones was arguably the best centerfielder of his time and perhaps the second best ever.

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Billy Wagner, admittedly, is my personal favorite, but was a dominate left-hander closer for an extended period...for closers anyway.

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Joe Mauer actually played almost as many games as a first basemen as he did as a catcher, but he won multiple batting championships and a MVP.

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[jayshum]

I agree that Beltre is a lock to get in. While he played a long time, I think calling him an accumulator is a little harsh.

Helton got close enough last year that he probably gets in as well.

Wagner got 68.1% last year so may be close enough to also make it.

If the above 3 get in then I don't think Jones and Mauer do. They both might eventually, but I think Mauer might have a better chance than Jones.

I would love to see Chase Utley eventually get in, but if he does, it will probably take a while.

[Smanzari]

I think its a big class this year between those you pointed out (I think all of them make it, maybe with Mauer waiting a year or three) plus the Vet Committee (I think we'll get 2-4 from there too)

[packs]

I think Beltre is definite. Most likely Helton. I think Mauer gets in eventually but probably not this year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I think Beltre is definite. Most likely Helton. I think Mauer gets in eventually but probably not this year.

This. I can't see Jones and i think Wagner is destined to fall short.

[G1911]

Helton is a lock, probably this year, with 72%.

Wagner is also a lock, with 68% and 2 years to go. Candidates that reach this level and fall short of the writers ballot are put in by a committee. The question is when, not if, Wagner gets in and if he actually deserves it.

With 4 years to go and 58% Jones is also probably destined for Cooperstown eventually, though I doubt next year.

Beltre will probably get in first ballot next year.

Mauer probably gets in via the writers but not first ballot.

[toothcutter]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This. I can't see Jones and i think Wagner is destined to fall short.

Torally disagree peter. Not really sure how your getting there.

[todeen]

I hope voters turn Carlos Beltran and the other Astros over the fires of hell for cheating. What a joke Rob Manfred is for offering no consequences. What a disgrace they are for cheating like that in the WS. Completely ruined future HOF'er Kershaw reputation and created the "not a big game pitcher" narrative instead.

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[jayshum]

Originally Posted by todeen

I hope voters turn Carlos Beltran and the other Astros over the fires of hell for cheating. What a joke Rob Manfred is for offering no consequences. What a disgrace they are for cheating like that in the WS. Completely ruined future HOF'er Kershaw reputation and created the "not a big game pitcher" narrative instead.

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Kershaw has had plenty of bad postseason outings. You can't blame Houston's cheating for all of them.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Kershaw has had plenty of bad postseason outings. You can't blame Houston's cheating for all of them.

With our without Kershaw, they are dog crap on the bottom of Manfreds shoe, and the stench won't go away.

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[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I think there are 2 shoo-ins and three other deserving candidates of the upcoming ballot:

Todd Helton got of 72% last year and nobody who has received that high a percentage did not get in.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Adrian Beltre can be viewed as a career accumulator, but 3,000 hits still gets you a golden pass.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Andruw Jones was arguably the best centerfielder of his time and perhaps the second best ever.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Billy Wagner, admittedly, is my personal favorite, but was a dominate left-hander closer for an extended period...for closers anyway.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Joe Mauer actually played almost as many games as a first basemen as he did as a catcher, but he won multiple batting championships and a MVP.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

crowded field this year but I only see Helton and Beltre.
Next year I would say Jones.
I am not a Wagner fan
To me Mauer is borderline but I would not be upset if he was in or not.

[DaClyde]

Jones seems to fall into that messy area with Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly where they had a strong peak, but then fell off a cliff due to injuries, but kept playing. I have to wonder for all three, had they left the game quickly, like Ralph Kiner, if they would garner more support.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by DaClyde

Jones seems to fall into that messy area with Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly where they had a strong peak, but then fell off a cliff due to injuries, but kept playing. I have to wonder for all three, had they left the game quickly, like Ralph Kiner, if they would garner more support.

Utley could also end up with this group.

[packs]

Andruw Jones was a good player but when I think of other fringe outfielders who did make it into the Hall, I think they all had more overall productive careers than he did. Guys like Billy Williams, Jim Rice, Vlad, Larry Walker, etc. I don't think Jones was in their class. They were productive deep into their careers and he just wasn't good for very long at all.

He was a 250 career hitter and he didn't hit 500 homers. Not sure he really has a place.

HOFers with the lowest career batting averages:

Ray Schalk - 253
Rabbit Maranville - 258
Harmon Killebrew - 256

Andruw Jones - 254

[Peter_Spaeth]

I know Jones was a great outfielder, but he's just not a HOFer in my book. I think it would take some revisionist history to put him in, but the Hall does that sometimes.