Greg Morris raw cards - trust or no?

[Belfast1933]

I have read here more than once that members find that Greg Morris ungraded cards are generally described accurately (for grade descriptor). I am tracking a pre-war raw card from GM and wonder if members believe it’s likely that cards listed probably measure properly from Greg Morris as a seller.

I would post the card here but have learned from some that calling out auction cards that are still in live auction can create a stink for some!

Think it’s safe to assume that a prewar raw card sold by Greg Morris is unaltered?

Jeff

[Republicaninmass]

I've always glad great luck with him. I've had 2 cards which i had consigned not listed saying they were "short". That being said, he does listed cards described as trimmed. He sells both his own cards, as well as consignments without disclosure which is which. That being said, it's probably a 99% chance the card is unaltered and he does have a return policy I assume

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I've always glad great luck with him. I've had 2 cards which i had consigned not listed saying they were "short". That being said, he does listed cards described as trimmed. He sells both his own cards, as well as consignments without disclosure which is which. That being said, it's probably a 99% chance the card is unaltered and he does have a return policy I assume

Cool, thx!

[Oscar_Stanage]

you can return anything no questions asked..
but don't expect his grade to be on par with TPGs. somewhat accurate but expect a grade lower

[nwfsteve]

I’ve probably bought 200-300 from him and consigned twice that amount. His descriptions tend to be on the conservative side except for not bein as much of a stickler on centering. I did submit a raw 1960 Boyer/Mantke from him he advertised as NM and SGC gave it a 6.5. The rest of his raw I submitted either matched his description or came back even better.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by nwfsteve

I’ve probably bought 200-300 from him and consigned twice that amount. His descriptions tend to be on the conservative side except for not bein as much of a stickler on centering. I did submit a raw 1960 Boyer/Mantke from him he advertised as NM and SGC gave it a 6.5. The rest of his raw I submitted either matched his description or came back even better.

Great endorsement … thx

[nwobhm]

Greg Morris is the best.

[Leon]

Per the rules, everyone giving an opinion needs to abide by the rule, in bold letters, near the top of each page.

I have known Greg for several years, he's an advertiser and friend. He's always great to deal with.
.

[G1911]

Definitely not safe to assume. He kept up that T205 Hoblitzell no stats and declined to add to the listing that the card had clearly had part of the back erased. There was a thread on the Tip Top Spahn he sold recently that was not just short but had had quite a bit of the sides hacked off just to cite two recent examples of altered cards not listed as such.

[Yoda]

My experiences with Greg have always been positive ones with one exception: I bought from him a raw '49 Bowman Spahn graded an ex-exmt which was rejected by Ebay as being over-graded. I did receive a refund from Ebay and the card was returned to Greg. I don't know if he ever relisted it or not but feel his grading has gotten tighter in the last year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To the OP's question, look at other examples of the issue and make a judgment if it looks full size and natural, that's ultimately more important than who's selling it because as G just pointed out, even the most honest seller can have stuff slip through.

[mrreality68]

From my experience he has been good and had no issues.

[butchie_t]

I have never had any issues with any cards from Greg Morris.

Butch Turner

[Fred]

There should be no worry if the seller has a liberal return policy.

My guess is that if there are alterations detected by Greg Morris or his associates that handle the cards, then they'd be disclosed, however I usually avoid Greg Morris cards because they sell for a bit of a premium over other sellers on ebay. That's collector speak to say that if I decide to sell some of my raw stuff, then I'd probably go with Greg Morris because he gets bids and when I look to pick up something, I try to find the stuff that fly's under the radar.

[mq711]

Most accurate grader of raw cards on eBay. Have purchased over a thousand cards from them and always satisfied.

[JollyElm]

Not offering an opinion, per se, but any outfit moving the sheer volume of cards that GM does will have some occasional cardboard slipping through the cracks...more so when it comes to century+ old tobacco cards measuring out 'correctly.' Seems the only way to ultimately be sure is by in-hand verification after you buy it.

(Yes, I understand that last bit is a very obvious statement that deserves a "Duh!!" )

[Flintboy]

Slowed way down on buying from him. His grading has been all over the place lately. Not sure if it’s because he’s grown too fast too quickly? On his YouTube videos he pimps his “pre grading process” however there’s a big difference between EX and EX-MT. Not that hard to assign one card condition to the listing.

[quitcrab]

Trust

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

Slowed way down on buying from him. His grading has been all over the place lately. Not sure if it’s because he’s grown too fast too quickly? On his YouTube videos he pimps his “pre grading process” however there’s a big difference between EX and EX-MT. Not that hard to assign one card condition to the listing.

Concur on this assessment. Recent listing have wild swings in grading. I think they have been getting too much to keep up.

[Flintboy]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31458420452...mis&media=COPY


This card would be lucky to grade a 5 with PSA right now. Print, soft corners, and centering. Not even close to a NM card.

[StraightRaceCards]

Can’t speak for his pre grading as I mostly buy PR type cards from him, but as far as a seller is concerned, I would definitely recommend. Zero issues from the few purchases I’ve made from him and I’ve heard reputable things about him around the hobby.

M@tt G@lvin

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Concur on this assessment. Recent listing have wild swings in grading. I think they have been getting too much to keep up.

Same here. I’ve bought in the 1000’s of cards from him and never any major issues. But probably in the past 2 years I’ve gotten some busts from him. I don’t really take advantage of the return policy. If I get 2 or 3 busts out of 40 cards I just move on. I did get a batch of 69’s and the sizes were all over. They offered a refund but I was too lazy to return them. That’s totally on me. I still buy from them but don’t pay quite the premium I used to and I take more caution in looking over the scans.

I also think this is a volume thing and not anything nefarious. At the end of the day I still buy from him. He’s still one of the best.

[rhettyeakley]

No personal issues but they have gotten so big that they buy so many of the lots in major auction houses and then put them directly on ebay.

I get that they make good money selling commons for stupid money sometimes but personally just sick of getting outbid on every vintage lot just to see them show up on ebay so I will not buy from them. They have basically become a middle man for all vintage commons/lots.

Again, no personal issues or anything.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

No personal issues but they have gotten so big that they buy so many of the lots in major auction houses and then put them directly on ebay.

I get that they make good money selling commons for stupid money sometimes but personally just sick of getting outbid on every vintage lot just to see them show up on ebay so I will not buy from them.

If they can outbid you, and after paying BP and shipping from the auction, and then ebay fees when they sell, and cover their overhead, and can still make a profit, then you aren't bidding enough. Just sayin'.

[Bartholomew_Bump_Bailey]

I will agree with some others in that they are not always 100% accurate with their "grades". But that would be my 1 and only complaint.

One thing I have not seen mentioned is that they ship relatively fast for how big of an operation it is, I've seen other smaller operations take longer.

They've been a big help in completing 2 1950s bowman sets. Definitely trust

[Johnny630]

I know he has hunters walking the show floors and Facebook Groups purchasing raw collections from Dealers and Sellers to list and sell.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I have had nothing but good experiences as a buyer.

This is not GMC's fault, but rather a USPS issue, and has happened with several other people who ship to me in Canada with mail going through Los Angeles: Their international shipments wind up in USPS' Los Angeles black hole--the absolute worst in the country. Packages bounce back and forth between sorting centers in the LA area, or just sit in one place for a month or more, not moving at all. It sometimes takes 2-3 months (yes, you read that right) to receive their shipments. For any Canadians/international customers, have your Greg Morris winnings shipped to an American address. Use a friend's address or look into paying for a mail forwarding service if you have no friends to help. GMC's domestic shipments generally arrive in a week or less and can then be forwarded to you in your country in a much shorter period. It's actually much faster to have your friend ship your cards in a secure PWE without tracking if you can believe it. USPS is so sadly inept sometimes.

[darwinbulldog]

I've bought plenty of cards from them. No problems as far as condition or noticing any alterations. Prices tend to go higher than for other sellers auctioning the same cards as they have a large built-in base following their auctions. Often the price will be the same for their raw cards as you would normally see for a graded card in the same condition.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If they can outbid you, and after paying BP and shipping from the auction, and then ebay fees when they sell, and cover their overhead, and can still make a profit, then you aren't bidding enough. Just sayin'.

Probably true and I never said anything other than I just choose not to deal with them as I don’t need to feed the machine.

That being said, I should totally bid more to compete with an outfit that can afford to lose money on some lots as they will make up for it in the long run… or maybe not?

[jingram058]

Since I buy cards to collect, not for investment or resale purposes, Greg Morris is perfect for me. I have bought a number of 1962 Topps now. Very reasonably priced and fast mailing, as opposed to some other volume sellers.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

That being said, I should totally bid more to compete with an outfit that can afford to lose money on some lots as they will make up for it in the long run… or maybe not?

It will be interesting to see if they lose or make money on this set break that ends Tuesday:

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=140373

[rhettyeakley]

I don’t mean to bash them. They are providing a service that apparently a ton of people are into so good on them. The OP asked about them as an outfit and just provided a different perspective of them than what had been stated.

I don’t really hold any ill will towards them & wish them well… that is a lot of money on that 1965 set so I hope it does well for them.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

No personal issues but they have gotten so big that they buy so many of the lots in major auction houses and then put them directly on ebay.

I get that they make good money selling commons for stupid money sometimes but personally just sick of getting outbid on every vintage lot just to see them show up on ebay so I will not buy from them. They have basically become a middle man for all vintage commons/lots.

Again, no personal issues or anything.

This actually worked out to my advantage. There was a near complete ser of T210-1 cards in one of the auction houses. I only needed one card of the lot so hard for me to justify buying the lot. Sure enough, the one card I needed showed up on eBay and I was able to complete my Subset of Jacksonville Jays for $200 instead of buying the lot for thousands of dollars and trying to sell off the rest of the cards. Score!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kmac32

This actually worked out to my advantage. There was a near complete ser of T210-1 cards in one of the auction houses. I only needed one card of the lot so hard for me to justify buying the lot. Sure enough, the one card I needed showed up on eBay and I was able to complete my Subset of Jacksonville Jays for $200 instead of buying the lot for thousands of dollars and trying to sell off the rest of the cards. Score!

Sort of the same thing happened to me. I missed a photo in auction then saw that Greg Morris had it listed. I couldn't have been happier to reacquire it.

1860 Ambrotype

[cornhusker]

Jim Hoffer
I've sold a couple batches of cards thru GM and felt their grading of the raw cards that I sent was very accurate. I've also bought several raw cards thru them and those cards were always as described. My experience has been that GM is a reputable outfit. Hoping to get some more cards out to them shortly actually. I've bought and sold thru lots of folks over the years and feel GM ranks in the top tier with their descriptions, photos, and communication.

[Yoda]

I believe a lot of people, including myself, who deal with Greg go in with the mindset, "Hmm, that raw Gibson now trading about $300, about to close and graded by GM as ex/exmt is interesting. VCP shows average price for a 6 to be $650. If I can get it for $450, add in grading and shipping, quickly sell it, then I can turn a nice profit. Just capitalist thinking, and for years I found GM cards to be utilitarian.
However, I have moved on. Greg has truly been discovered and is a bit overwhelmed. Prices for his raw stuff has certainly increased.
Finally, grading a card ex-exmt leaves a lot of latitude and one must consider the vagaries of the TPG'ers

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I believe a lot of people, including myself, who deal with Greg go in with the mindset, "Hmm, that raw Gibson now trading about $300, about to close and graded by GM as ex/exmt is interesting. VCP shows average price for a 6 to be $650. If I can get it for $450, add in grading and shipping, quickly sell it, then I can turn a nice profit. Just capitalist thinking, and for years I found GM cards to be utilitarian.
However, I have moved on. Greg has truly been discovered and is a bit overwhelmed. Prices for his raw stuff has certainly increased.
Finally, grading a card ex-exmt leaves a lot of latitude and one must consider the vagaries of the TPG'ers

I think the latitude of his grading can sort of be where the value comes in.

For instance, I purchased a Koufax Rookie that GM graded "Low Grade" which is supposed to a 1 or 2, and SGC graded it a 3.

As others have pointed out, GM cares more about sharpness of corners than centering, so some of their "EX/EXMINT" cards would grade lower as they are way off in centering. But centered ones may grade higher.

But yeah, I have not found any bargains with Greg Morris for a while. He is getting ridiculous pricing, especially for his high profile stuff.

It is interesting to me that as others pointed out, he is buying entire sets from Robert Edward and others and breaking them. I bet the people that consigned those cards wish they'd directly consigned to Greg Morris, rather than an auction house.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I bet the people that consigned those cards wish they'd directly consigned to Greg Morris, rather than an auction house.

I think that the opposite may be true. The $44,400 1965 PSA complete set from REA broke last evening via GM at approximately $39,500 ...the original REA consignor is likely glad to have gone through REA vs GM on this one. If GM purchased this set, they are in the red by almost $10k after ebay fees.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I think that the opposite may be true. The $44,400 1965 PSA complete set from REA broke last evening via GM at approximately $39,500 ...the original REA consignor is likely glad to have gone through REA vs GM on this one. If GM purchased this set, they are in the red by almost $10k after ebay fees.

Wow, I didn't realize someone had done the math to see if the GM had made money. Yikes if they were $10K in the red....

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Wow, I didn't realize someone had done the math to see if the GM had made money. Yikes if they were $10K in the red....

I was actually following the set, not the seller. I came into the auction last evening needing 10 cards to finish my set, down to 4 after. Prices were really all over the place in this break and I was curious as to how it would break after it sold for more than I expected it would as a complete set via REA.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I think that the opposite may be true. The $44,400 1965 PSA complete set from REA broke last evening via GM at approximately $39,500 ...the original REA consignor is likely glad to have gone through REA vs GM on this one. If GM purchased this set, they are in the red by almost $10k after ebay fees.

Anecdotal (and not limited to any particular seller), but as a buyer, I've benefited greatly on many auctions that flood an auction ending in a single pay-due period with same-year/type cards.

I've seen this somewhat recently on a heavy N172 auction as well as 60s/70s Topps set breaks. It may attract the right people to the auction, but I wonder how much $$ the buyer pool feels comfortable spending all at once. It seems prioritization shoves some stuff into the background that would ordinarily be bid up.

I wonder if things would have been different if they took that 1965 set and broke it up over a few weeks/months of separate pay-due auction periods rather than putting the set up all at once.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I think that the opposite may be true. The $44,400 1965 PSA complete set from REA broke last evening via GM at approximately $39,500 ...the original REA consignor is likely glad to have gone through REA vs GM on this one. If GM purchased this set, they are in the red by almost $10k after ebay fees.

What is the link for that REA auction?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Anecdotal (and not limited to any particular seller), but as a buyer, I've benefited greatly on many auctions that flood an auction ending in a single pay-due period with same-year/type cards.

I don't understand this way of selling. It makes no sense. List a handful from several sets instead. A slow break of a complete set gives people more time to (re)generate funds. Not all customers have the freedom to bid on a huge pile at once.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Anecdotal (and not limited to any particular seller), but as a buyer, I've benefited greatly on many auctions that flood an auction ending in a single pay-due period with same-year/type cards.

I've seen this somewhat recently on a heavy N172 auction as well as 60s/70s Topps set breaks. It may attract the right people to the auction, but I wonder how much $$ the buyer pool feels comfortable spending all at once. It seems prioritization shoves some stuff into the background that would ordinarily be bid up.

I wonder if things would have been different if they took that 1965 set and broke it up over a few weeks/months of separate pay-due auction periods rather than putting the set up all at once.

In the past, the trend has obviously been that PSA sets are selling for more broken up than sold whole. Recently several complete 60s PSA sets have sold for more whole than in parts. This 1965 set https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=140373 and a 1968 set recently with MHCC http://milehighcardco.com/1968_Topps...-LOT93678.aspx have now both sold for more whole than broken.

Could be a new trend, not a good trend for GM whose speciality is breaking sets.

To tie this back to the OPs original topic, I BID on a fair amount of GM items, rarely do I actually win what I bid (at market prices) on. I have trusted their grading and have felt that overall it's accurate. After this 65 set break, I trust their auction integrity even more than I did before.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

In the past, the trend has obviously been that PSA sets are selling for more broken up than sold whole. Recently several complete 60s PSA sets have sold for more whole than in parts. This 1965 set https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=140373 and a 1968 set recently with MHCC http://milehighcardco.com/1968_Topps...-LOT93678.aspx have now both sold for more whole than broken.

Could be a new trend, not a good trend for GM whose speciality is breaking sets.

To tie this back to the OPs original topic, I BID on a fair amount of GM items, rarely do I actually win what I bid (at market prices) on. I have trusted their grading and have felt that overall it's accurate. After this 65 set break, I trust their auction integrity even more than I did before.

I can't access that REA link, can anyone else?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I can't access that REA link, can anyone else?

Try the link I had in post #31

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Try the link I had in post #31

Thanks, that worked.

Whoever bought that set and consigned it to GM (either GM or another collector) made a foolish mistake.

[scottglevy]

Quality company. Quality product. It’s a bit of a gamble to buy something that’s described as NMMT and actually expect a slabbed “8”. But the cards should be roughly in line with the described grades - which is more than I can say for most raw card sellers.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Thanks, that worked.

Whoever bought that set and consigned it to GM (either GM or another collector) made a foolish mistake.

Was mentioned in post #32 of this thread that perhaps GM is buying sets from auction houses, such as the '65 set from REA, directly. But I suppose it is more likely that someone consigned the set.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by scottglevy

Quality company. Quality product. It’s a bit of a gamble to buy something that’s described as NMMT and actually expect a slabbed “8”. But the cards should be roughly in line with the described grades - which is more than I can say for most raw card sellers.

Most smaller-time raw card sellers on eBay don’t even bother with pretending to guess at condition anymore. “See pics for condition” is a tired one, but I’ve had to just quit rolling my eyes at that kind of thing. If it’s not a trusted seller or if the person cannot be bothered to even hazard a guess on a raw card - I usually just move on.

Greg Morris seized the market space that someone inevitably was bound to when he proved that he could be consistently competent at raw grading, in a space where the prevailing wisdom was to buy graded since you cannot trust raw, or more importantly those selling raw cards. I think this was good for the hobby. Grading has changed things sure, but Greg proved that there was still space for those who can grade competently and conservatively without everything having to be in a slab. I realize that many buy the high end raw cards he sells only with the intention of sending them off to PSA, but it’s nice to know if grading isn’t necessarily your thing, that you can buy from GM and be generally confident that whatever you bought will arrive in the condition you expect it to.