The Silent Natural - Dummy Hoy

[chjh]

https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Natura.../dp/B08L7YKYMR

This is one of my favorite baseball movies. Dummy Hoy was inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame in 2003.

Hoy is the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

Hoy is one of three outfielders to throw out three base runners at home plate in one game. On June 19, 1889, he threw perfect strikes to catcher Connie Mack to throw out runners attempting to score from second base.

Upon his death in 1961 at the age of 99, Hoy was the longest-lived former MLB player ever.

At the time of his death, Dummy Hoy was the last surviving participant of both the American Association and the Players' League.

[jingram058]

Very nice card, and yes he is most interesting. I will check the film out. Thanks for posting this.

[tlwise12]

My vintage baseball team was actually in that movie! You can see several of us in the dugout and a few in other areas.

It was a really cool experience and I'm glad we did it.

[scotgreb]

Great stuff -- looking forward to the movie.

Another pose of Mr. Hoy

Hoy, Dummy 1888 N172.jpg

[Jay Wolt]

[puckpaul]

Have a few Dummy Hoys (and Dummy Taylors, those old folks sure were creative in their deaf nicknames!). Including an early program featuring Hoy and his National copper plate, and signed balls of each.

I missed out on an N173 cabinet of Hoy, anyone have one of those? My friend was distracted and missed the live auction lot it was in, was supposed to try to buy it for me…oops.

[drumback]

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by drumback

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

Hoy referred to himself as Dummy so it didn't bother him. I wonder what Old Eagle thought of him since they were teammates on the Reds?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye

Hoy referred to himself as Dummy so it didn't bother him. I wonder what Old Eagle thought of him since they were teammates on the Reds?

who is Old Eagle? He doesn't pop up on a Google Search. It keeps bringing up Tris Speaker instead - "Grey Eagle."

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[jingram058]

I'm not deaf, well, not yet and not totally, anyhow. But I sure enough am a big dummy. Just ask my wife. Derision? Hell, I'm sometimes proud of it! That is, when I'm not walking away from full sets for my mom to throw away, or when I'm not selling cards for peanuts because I am hard up for money, or cutting up and flushing down the toilet a perfectly good Hal Chase card because I thought he was a f&#@ing di$@head, or... You get the idea.

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by todeen

who is Old Eagle? He doesn't pop up on a Google Search. It keeps bringing up Tris Speaker instead - "Grey Eagle."

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Come on man it's BBHOF'er Jake Beckley. He was born and is buried here in my hometown of Hannibal, Missouri.

[ValKehl]

Another N172 pose of Hoy:

[chjh]

WHEN DID THE WORD “DUMMY” BECOME DEROGATORY?

https://blog.leeandlow.com/2012/08/1...me-derogatory/

In the 21st century, it has become common practice to use “dummy” with insulting intentions. It’s not surprising that some people may feel confused about why William encouraged people to call him “Dummy.” In this passage from Silent Star, author Bill Wise offers an explanation:

“Today calling a deaf person dumb would be derogatory and offensive, but in Hoy’s day it was acceptable. Hoy carried his nickname with pride. Dummy became the name he preferred, and he often corrected people who called him William.”

William was born in 1862. By then, some version of the word “dumb” had existed within the English language for hundreds of years and meant, “silent, unable to speak.” As English became influenced by German, the definition of “stupid” was also adopted; this occurred in the 1800’s.

Today, synonyms for “dummy” include “airhead,” “dimwit” and “idiot.” Under conventional circumstances, those words don’t promote positive feelings for anyone within society, much less those who are deaf. As a result, the deaf community no longer uses the word “dummy.” They have also acquired a much more negative view towards the terms “deaf-mute” and “deaf and dumb,” especially since most people who are deaf can learn how to speak.

[dmyhoy]

Its suggestive that stating Dummy Hoy (hence the capitol "D") at all times. In Webster's dictionary it defines (D) meaning inability to hear or to talk. When using (d) the lower case, it means there is something wrong with you in other words, idiot. As a 32 years researcher on Dummy Hoy, yes, I am Deaf not deaf, am allowing the word "Dummy" to be use at all times. But if you state Dummy with using the column or article without Hoy, then it means something else and discourage in using it. All my research I have read were using "mute", "dumb" but it does not mean offensive in any way. Mute means inability to speak, dumb means mute. In the old days there were signs means (you would have to learn sign language to understand) Should anyone else using "dummy Hoy" I would make correction on you to change it to "Dummy Hoy". But if not, then it considered racist in ignoring.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by drumback

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

Sir, allow me to suggest otherwise, feel free to use the word "Dummy" on Hoy, Dundon, Taylor, Sawhill, Ryn Kihm, Funkhouser, Stephenson, Leitner, Rossen, Curtis, Dix, and Fuller. Or any other Deaf ball players of the olden days except, Sipek. He is the first Deaf ball player not to be called Dummy. I am Deaf but not deaf hence the capitol D.
Other names such as Albert Bender - should be answered by someone who is an expert in this regard.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by chjh

WHEN DID THE WORD “DUMMY” BECOME DEROGATORY?

https://blog.leeandlow.com/2012/08/1...me-derogatory/

In the 21st century, it has become common practice to use “dummy” with insulting intentions. It’s not surprising that some people may feel confused about why William encouraged people to call him “Dummy.” In this passage from Silent Star, author Bill Wise offers an explanation:

“Today calling a deaf person dumb would be derogatory and offensive, but in Hoy’s day it was acceptable. Hoy carried his nickname with pride. Dummy became the name he preferred, and he often corrected people who called him William.”


William was born in 1862. By then, some version of the word “dumb” had existed within the English language for hundreds of years and meant, “silent, unable to speak.” As English became influenced by German, the definition of “stupid” was also adopted; this occurred in the 1800’s.

Today, synonyms for “dummy” include “airhead,” “dimwit” and “idiot.” Under conventional circumstances, those words don’t promote positive feelings for anyone within society, much less those who are deaf. As a result, the deaf community no longer uses the word “dummy.” They have also acquired a much more negative view towards the terms “deaf-mute” and “deaf and dumb,” especially since most people who are deaf can learn how to speak.

In the old days, stating "dumb" meaning deaf and/or mute. As a life long researcher, I do not find it offensive on Dummy Hoy in any thoughts or deeds. Should Dummy Hoy ever get to be induct into the NBHOF and they didn't mention "Dummy" i considered it ignorance. Dummy Hoy should be named as "William Ellsworth 'Dummy' Hoy" with respects at all times.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by chjh

https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Natura.../dp/B08L7YKYMR

This is one of my favorite baseball movies. Dummy Hoy was inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame in 2003.

Hoy is the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

Hoy is one of three outfielders to throw out three base runners at home plate in one game. On June 19, 1889, he threw perfect strikes to catcher Connie Mack to throw out runners attempting to score from second base.

Upon his death in 1961 at the age of 99, Hoy was the longest-lived former MLB player ever.

At the time of his death, Dummy Hoy was the last surviving participant of both the American Association and the Players' League.

Thanks for making a mention on this, unless you might have not known, myself am the producer and co-wrote the production, "The Silent Natural". the title of this film was coined by my wife (Yes, she's Deaf) and we stick to is. (Director and I) I was also on site of the production and "overview" the entire filming for one month. Everyone crew and extra - yes thanks to these old-time ball players that did a wonderful performance in this film, achieved the "impossible on getting this film completed. As I mentioned it took in the entire month of March 2018. After the production, editing took one year and one month. Then May 2019 (during Memorial Day weekend) we had a premiere showing in Hopkinsville, Kentucky. then in the last week of December 2021, my wife and I took a travel to Dawson Springs to view the destruction of the town from the tornado. My eyes weeps of the damages and house were beyond - can't explain it. You have to see the pictures I took. But the site of the ball field where we film it was slightly damaged from the tornado but not the worst of it.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Have a few Dummy Hoys (and Dummy Taylors, those old folks sure were creative in their deaf nicknames!). Including an early program featuring Hoy and his National copper plate, and signed balls of each.

I missed out on an N173 cabinet of Hoy, anyone have one of those? My friend was distracted and missed the live auction lot it was in, was supposed to try to buy it for me…oops.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https...&__tn__=R]-R&c[0]=AT2kXcTM06XkoevBtlc6wMYtgQD62LH79dG4fJcNrX8ct7GyI iCdEN9J5MMhmP0dZcJFt5yuTCB5X1mqe7mjGFDQnBjJu3x3TY7 mRLiQqPLdTHNomo1jy4qClh3i9W8kCxJvMjFmNphwp4w0Wyaih u0LOBUJehc24M7ZSzIGjZFS0MQ2K7HrIQ

Kindly check this out.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Great stuff -- looking forward to the movie.

Another pose of Mr. Hoy

Attachment 550130

You can find the film in Amazon and/or find the DVD via going Google to locate one.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by chjh

https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Natura.../dp/B08L7YKYMR

This is one of my favorite baseball movies. Dummy Hoy was inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame in 2003.

Hoy is the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

Hoy is one of three outfielders to throw out three base runners at home plate in one game. On June 19, 1889, he threw perfect strikes to catcher Connie Mack to throw out runners attempting to score from second base.

Upon his death in 1961 at the age of 99, Hoy was the longest-lived former MLB player ever.

At the time of his death, Dummy Hoy was the last surviving participant of both the American Association and the Players' League.

The Cincinnati Reds HOF induction as I was there along with 9 Hoy clans on the field and George Foster were inducted as well. When meeting the Hoy clans, many were surprised to know/learned what I knew about Dummy Hoy. One of them stated, "I dont think we would have a problem with you".
April 2022, Dummy Hoy has a historical marker placed in Houcktown, Ohio. If you ever in that town, you can't missed it.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by drumback

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

Well, in today’s context, i “hear” you. But both Hoy and Taylor had NO problem signing baseballs with “Dummy” in the signature, so I hardly feel like i should change how i refer to them.

I have severe hearing loss which drew me to collecting Dummy Hoy items. Proud of them.

Sadder is that people today are still uncomfortable with people with hearing loss, and they are not any more welcoming in this era of “DEI”.

[perezfan]

What about Rube (as in Foster and Waddell?) Is it still acceptable to call them that, or is that name cancelled as well?

[chjh]

Steve,

Thanks for sharing the additional info about the production of The Silent Natural. You all involved in the movie should be very proud. It shows a good perspective on life back then, good info on the early days of baseball, and the story of Dummy Hoy overcoming his disability.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by perezfan

What about Rube (as in Foster and Waddell?) Is it still acceptable to call them that, or is that name cancelled as well?

Oh, there is a much worse nickname than that that more than just a few late 19th/early 20th century athletes and ballplayers had.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye

Come on man it's BBHOF'er Jake Beckley. He was born and is buried here in my hometown of Hannibal, Missouri.

ha! I didn't even check your member name. my bad. thanks for answering.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by drumback

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

You'll be pleased to know that Baseball Reference made the decision a couple years ago to update their site to list such players by their real names instead of those "nicknames".

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by chjh

WHEN DID THE WORD “DUMMY” BECOME DEROGATORY?

https://blog.leeandlow.com/2012/08/1...me-derogatory/

In the 21st century, it has become common practice to use “dummy” with insulting intentions.

That word has been derogatory my entire life and I was born in 1972.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

What about Rube (as in Foster and Waddell?) Is it still acceptable to call them that, or is that name cancelled as well?

You might have to ask who is an expert in Rube. But if you are talking about Rube, then I would believe its alright unless otherwise instructed.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by chjh

Steve,

Thanks for sharing the additional info about the production of The Silent Natural. You all involved in the movie should be very proud. It shows a good perspective on life back then, good info on the early days of baseball, and the story of Dummy Hoy overcoming his disability.

Thanks. Other than that, am currently working on getting the USPS Stamp on Dummy Hoy as the first class stamp. To date, there has never been one issued! Also a Congressional Gold Medal, he worked in the Goodyear blimp department during The Great War.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by Tabe

You'll be pleased to know that Baseball Reference made the decision a couple years ago to update their site to list such players by their real names instead of those "nicknames".

The Baseball Reference is a mistake! they never asked any Deaf expert on this and they are ignorance!

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Well, in today’s context, i “hear” you. But both Hoy and Taylor had NO problem signing baseballs with “Dummy” in the signature, so I hardly feel like i should change how i refer to them.

I have severe hearing loss which drew me to collecting Dummy Hoy items. Proud of them.

Sadder is that people today are still uncomfortable with people with hearing loss, and they are not any more welcoming in this era of “DEI”.

I've always felt they should offer American Sign Language in school as an elective along with the other languages.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by dmyhoy

You might have to ask who is an expert in Rube. But if you are talking about Rube, then I would believe its alright unless otherwise instructed.

Rube is definitely OK and has plenty of uses other than the potentially offensive version - see Rube Goldberg, for example.

[jingram058]

I watched the movie, and it's quite good. I don't understand the negative or less than flattering reviews. The acting, the periodicity correctness all seem spot on, and it was made on a shoestring budget. It takes a rightful place alongside all the other baseball films of note, in my opinion.

[dmyhoy]

Originally Posted by chjh

https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Natura.../dp/B08L7YKYMR

This is one of my favorite baseball movies. Dummy Hoy was inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame in 2003.

Hoy is the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

Hoy is one of three outfielders to throw out three base runners at home plate in one game. On June 19, 1889, he threw perfect strikes to catcher Connie Mack to throw out runners attempting to score from second base.

Upon his death in 1961 at the age of 99, Hoy was the longest-lived former MLB player ever.

At the time of his death, Dummy Hoy was the last surviving participant of both the American Association and the Players' League.

Thought you might like to know, am the producer of that film, "The SIlent Natural".

[dmyhoy]

https://www.10tv.com/video/news/loca...qIPPEFa3SsjkuA

Thought you might want to know of this.

[sreader3]

Apparently Hoy and Taylor were comfortable signing baseballs as “Dummy.”

Is the idea here that how Mr. Hoy and Mr. Taylor chose to self-identify should be disrespected and censored because of modern sensibilities?