Albert pujols - let's see them

[gonefishin]

With Albert simply on FIRE and about to break Alex (Steroid) Rodriguez' record, I thought it would be a great time to see some Pujol's jewels. Here is mine. Let's see some Albert cards!

[RayBShotz]

Here's the few that I have.

[gonefishin]

The gold refractor is sweet. Albert's batting stance hasn't changed since 2001 and he still looks young!

I'm hoping he can break 700. I don't know him, but he appears to be a true gentleman. I wish he would have stayed in St. Louis this entire time, but it is what it is. His statue would be sitting beside Stan's if he did.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

The gold refractor is sweet. Albert's batting stance hasn't changed since 2001 and he still looks young!

I'm hoping he can break 700. I don't know him, but he appears to be a true gentleman. I wish he would have stayed in St. Louis this entire time, but it is what it is. His statue would be sitting beside Stan's if he did.

I am so hoping for at least 7 more to get to 700 this year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

..

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am so hoping for at least 7 more to get to 700 this year.

i thought i heard someone saying the cards have a lot of lefty pitchers coming up on their schedule. insane what albert has been doing since the break. love it, hope he passes a-rod as soon as possible

[gonefishin]

I don't think it will get to the Mark McGwire level in 98, but I try to at least see the highlights every night. As he gets closer to ARod and 700, ESPN should be covering his every at bat - I will be watching.

Let's not forget that this is also the last year for Molina - he is LOVED in St Louis.

The Cardinals last game this year - whenever that will be - will feature both Pujols and Molina. St Louis is a baseball town and the crowds will show their affection for sure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am so hoping for at least 7 more to get to 700 this year.

In 5 weeks? The only way that happens is if pitchers groove some for him. Very odd career IMO. First half, he was arguably a top 10 of all time type player, just massive. Second half, mostly an average player whose counting stats were padded by having Mike Trout in the lineup and always on base.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 5 weeks? The only way that happens is if pitchers groove some for him. Very odd career IMO. First half, he was arguably a top 10 of all time type player, just massive. Second half, mostly an average player whose counting stats were padded by having Mike Trout in the lineup and always on base.

I would say he still is a top 10 all time player.

Trout was lucky to play with someone who put up numbers he could only dream about.

[Casey2296]

This post is as good as any to ask, I know bupkiss about modern but would like to own a Pujols card or two. Do you have a suggestion for the best investment card? Also because I'm a collector a suggestion for the most beautiful card.

Thanks in advance.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would say he still is a top 10 all time player.

Trout was lucky to play with someone who put up numbers he could only dream about.

Put Albert's first ten years together with Trout's and you might have the GOAT.

[ALR-bishop]

If Pujols had stayed in St. Louis for his career would there have been a Musial Pujols debate as to the best Cardinal ever

[sbfinley]

My Favorite Albert's:



And some Yadi love too...

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Put Albert's first ten years together with Trout's and you might have the GOAT.

Peter, are you out of mind here? Why don't you recognize we are witness to the end of a career that was one of the best of all time. If you remove the cheaters, Pujols will finish 3rd on the most Home Runs hit in the HISTORY - the HISTORY - of baseball behind only Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth. To even imply his numbers were padded because of Trout is absolutely crazy. His move to the Angels was the biggest mistake he ever made in baseball. He won more World Series rings with the Cardinals than the Angels have ever won as a team! The score would be Pujols 2 - Angels 1. Pujols will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee and should be somewhere between the 38th - 40th player inducted as a Cardinal. If, I say if because Trout has a long way to go, Trout is inducted for the Angels he will be number 6.

Pujols went back to the team where he was loved and admired - a city that has won more World Series titles than any other team except for the Yankees. He is putting on a show at the end of his career like no other we have seen in years. Give him his due instead of trying to fabricate things to tarnish what he has accomplished. Enjoy watching the end of a fantastic career - you might actually enjoy it.

[gonefishin]

Since this Rookie card wasn't pictured, I thought I would add it.

[clydepepper]

2011 Topps Tier 1- Albert Pujols Auto.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Peter, are you out of mind here? Why don't you recognize we are witness to the end of a career that was one of the best of all time. If you remove the cheaters, Pujols will finish 3rd on the most Home Runs hit in the HISTORY - the HISTORY - of baseball behind only Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth. To even imply his numbers were padded because of Trout is absolutely crazy. His move to the Angels was the biggest mistake he ever made in baseball. He won more World Series rings with the Cardinals than the Angels have ever won as a team! The score would be Pujols 2 - Angels 1. Pujols will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee and should be somewhere between the 38th - 40th player inducted as a Cardinal. If, I say if because Trout has a long way to go, Trout is inducted for the Angels he will be number 6.

Pujols went back to the team where he was loved and admired - a city that has won more World Series titles than any other team except for the Yankees. He is putting on a show at the end of his career like no other we have seen in years. Give him his due instead of trying to fabricate things to tarnish what he has accomplished. Enjoy watching the end of a fantastic career - you might actually enjoy it.

Look up his WAR on the Angels and let's talk.

Here I did it for you.
Pujols, per Baseball-Reference's calculations, has been worth 99.4 WAR for his career. During his 11 seasons with the Cardinals, he amassed 86.6 WAR. That means Pujols was worth just 12.8 wins above replacement during his time in Anaheim. Pujols has been worth -2.0 WAR since the start of the 2017 season.

Yeah, I'm out of my mind here.

[gonefishin]

I've never looked up WAR, probably never will. I don't really need that information, and to be honest I don't really care. I know when it is raining without asking someone what that stuff is falling from the sky.

All I'm asking is for you to give some credit to an individual that has played the game with honor and respect. Although somewhat amusing, I fail to understand why you would even make a comment that Pujols numbers that "count - whatever that means" were padded by playing with Trout:

"mostly an average player whose counting stats were padded by having Mike Trout in the lineup and always on base."

Let me absorb this a little more, hmmmmmmm, 693 home runs so far in his career - yes - that sounds pretty average to me. Is it raining outside?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

I've never looked up WAR, probably never will. I don't really need that information, and to be honest I don't really care. I know when it is raining without asking someone what that stuff is falling from the sky.

All I'm asking is for you to give some credit to an individual that has played the game with honor and respect. Although somewhat amusing, I fail to understand why you would even make a comment that Pujols numbers that "count - whatever that means" were padded by playing with Trout:

"mostly an average player whose counting stats were padded by having Mike Trout in the lineup and always on base."

Let me absorb this a little more, hmmmmmmm, 693 home runs so far in his career - yes - that sounds pretty average to me. Is it raining outside?

Obviously his first ten years were huge, and I give him lots of credit, he was an elite player despite a long and mediocre tail to his career. That you don't care about advanced metrics is fine, but many people do. As for my observation about Trout, RBI have a lot to do with how many guys are on base when you come up. Pujols' RBI totals would have been a lot lower hitting behind a mortal. Pujols' generally mediocre performance on the Angels is old news by the way, it's been discussed forever.

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Obviously his first ten years were huge, and I give him lots of credit, he was an elite player despite a long and mediocre tail to his career. That you don't care about advanced metrics is fine, but many people do. As for my observation about Trout, RBI have a lot to do with how many guys are on base when you come up. Pujols' RBI totals would have been a lot lower hitting behind a mortal. Pujols' generally mediocre performance on the Angels is old news by the way, it's been discussed forever.

Well Peter, if you would have just put a period after credit and ended the post I would have been very happy! But you didn't. Metrics, an analogy for me as it relates to this post would be:

I'm at the blackjack table enjoying the game. Someone sits down, makes a minimum bet, and then breaks out their "Hoyle" book. Every card that is dealt the person looks up the odds to see if they should hit, stay, etc. Without fail, I get up and leave the table pissed off that the person sat down and ruined my otherwise enjoyable moment. That's metrics my friend.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Well Peter, if you would have just put a period after credit and ended the post I would have been very happy! But you didn't. Metrics, an analogy for me as it relates to this post would be:

I'm at the blackjack table enjoying the game. Someone sits down, makes a minimum bet, and then breaks out their "Hoyle" book. Every card that is dealt the person looks up the odds to see if they should hit, stay, etc. Without fail, I get up and leave the table pissed off that the person sat down and ruined my otherwise enjoyable moment. That's metrics my friend.

I am glad to hear you know better than all the people who have studied baseball and devised metrics to measure performance. Good to know!!

[gonefishin]

Yes sir. Me, Yogi Berra, Dizzy Dean and Pepper Martin were/are fanatics about metrics. Hell, that's why we go to the game! I don't know for sure, but from what I've read Ty Cobb was a big fan of metrics.

This will be my last response, as this thread is about Albert Pujols not metrics, but I do have one last question:

Do you hit on 16?

Enjoy your day Peter - all in jest.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Yes sir. Me, Yogi Berra, Dizzy Dean and Pepper Martin were/are fanatics about metrics. Hell, that's why we go to the game! I don't know for sure, but from what I've read Ty Cobb was a big fan of metrics.

This will be my last response, as this thread is about Albert Pujols not metrics, but I do have one last question:

Do you hit on 16?

Enjoy your day Peter - all in jest.

LOL you too. And I do like Albert as evidenced by the pics I posted of his cards.

[ALR-bishop]

No doubt the Angels made a mistake in the contract they gave him, and likewise saved the Cardinals from the one they had by necessity to offer him. I credit his then wife. It helped keep the Cardinals competitive and in the playoffs and back to the Series twice. But glad he is finishing up there

I did all Heritage variations through 2010 ( 1961) but when they expanded to 20,000 or thereabouts in 2011 I gave up



From his initial stint in St Louis when La Russo was manger

[G1911]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Peter, are you out of mind here? Why don't you recognize we are witness to the end of a career that was one of the best of all time. If you remove the cheaters, Pujols will finish 3rd on the most Home Runs hit in the HISTORY - the HISTORY - of baseball behind only Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth. To even imply his numbers were padded because of Trout is absolutely crazy. His move to the Angels was the biggest mistake he ever made in baseball. He won more World Series rings with the Cardinals than the Angels have ever won as a team! The score would be Pujols 2 - Angels 1. Pujols will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee and should be somewhere between the 38th - 40th player inducted as a Cardinal. If, I say if because Trout has a long way to go, Trout is inducted for the Angels he will be number 6.

Pujols went back to the team where he was loved and admired - a city that has won more World Series titles than any other team except for the Yankees. He is putting on a show at the end of his career like no other we have seen in years. Give him his due instead of trying to fabricate things to tarnish what he has accomplished. Enjoy watching the end of a fantastic career - you might actually enjoy it.

I would suggest you look up Pujols statistics as an Angel. He contributed very little (a 108 OPS+ is pretty bad for a 1B/DH) and his counting stats were absolutely padded by having Trout on base constantly in front of him. This does not detract form his immense value and performance in the first half of his career, it is just reality.

[Kzoo]

Here's a couple of my signed cards. The SP was severely downgraded due to a light 'dent' in the surface near his right foot.

[G1911]

It is not worth much of anything, but this is my favorite Pujols card for some reason. Love the 62 All-Stars and he looks right in a Cardinals jersey. Pujols was a beast, and his reputation as a decent fellow didn't hurt. I hope he gets to 700.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I would suggest you look up Pujols statistics as an Angel. He contributed very little (a 108 OPS+ is pretty bad for a 1B/DH) and his counting stats were absolutely padded by having Trout on base constantly in front of him. This does not detract form his immense value and performance in the first half of his career, it is just reality.

Let's assume (and hope) PEDs are not the explanation. Is there a good one? I mean he was decent for a couple of years but was almost a liability for a long time after that. It's almost inconceivable given that he was an uber elite player in the 2000s, one who seriously could have challenged for the GOAT with a more normal trajectory..

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's assume (and hope) PEDs are not the explanation. Is there a good one? I mean he was decent for a couple of years but was almost a liability for a long time after that. It's almost inconceivable given that he was an uber elite player in the 2000s, one who seriously could have challenged for the GOAT with a more normal trajectory..

His decline really begins in 2013, his age 33 season. He’s been straight trash since 2017 other than his resurgence this year, which was his age 37 season.

Pujols has previously misstated his age in interviews, multiple times (one of many articles on one of multiple instances: https://www.halosheaven.com/2018/11/...-age-conundrum). The rumors of his age have been around since he started.

I suspect it’s not PED’s, it’s just that he’s even older than he claims to be. Add just a couple years to his age, and his decline looks right in line with historical norms.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

His decline really begins in 2013, his age 33 season. He’s been straight trash since 2017 other than his resurgence this year, which was his age 37 season.

Pujols has previously misstated his age in interviews, multiple times (one of many articles on one of multiple instances: https://www.halosheaven.com/2018/11/...-age-conundrum). The rumors of his age have been around since he started.

I suspect it’s not PED’s, it’s just that he’s even older than he claims to be. Add just a couple years to his age, and his decline looks right in line with historical norms.

How in this day and age can there be uncertainty about when someone was born? This isn't Satchel Paige.

[packs]

It happens. Remember the pitcher formerly known as Fausto Carmona? He ended up being a man named Roberto Hernandez who was 3 years older than he claimed to be. That was after pitching for the then Indians for six years.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How in this day and age can there be uncertainty about when someone was born? This isn't Satchel Paige.

Like Packs said, Fausto Carmona had a fake name and a fake age. I believe Octavio Dotel has also confessed to having lowered his age. It’s fairly tough for Americans to get away with, but documentation on everyone is not so readily available in other places. It’s not unheard of, at all, for South Americans.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It happens. Remember the pitcher formerly known as Fausto Carmona? He ended up being a man named Roberto Hernandez who was 3 years older than he claimed to be. That was after pitching for the then Indians for six years.

One year of which he was quite good, as I recall.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If you're the Angels and you know the rumors, aren't you going to demand proof of age before committing to a long term mega deal with Pujols?

[gonefishin]

I sure hope all the Angels, including Trout, enjoy watching Pujols in the play offs smashing Home Runs into the bleachers. 702 Home Runs and a 3rd WS Championship with the Cardinals would be a nice way to end his HOF career.

Pujols on the 62 format is great - I like it!

[ALR-bishop]

I am a Cardinals and Pujols fan but think 702 is a stretch. And not sure they have the pitching to stay with NY or LA, even if Flaherty and Matz return to form.

No one in baseball has pitched better than Montgomery over his last 4 games. but he can not really be that good, right Yankees fans ?

[gonefishin]

I was just dreaming big - and phishing to get Peter and the other Angel fans stirred up -

The way they're playing they could probably beat the Yankees with only Goldschmidt, Pujols and Nootbaar taking the field. Gorman could pitch I guess and DH. That's all they need.

I'll stick with 702 and the 3rd ring.

[Bill77]

A couple of my Pujols rookie cards.

[gonefishin]

Nice cards! I like the Gold version of the base.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you're the Angels and you know the rumors, aren't you going to demand proof of age before committing to a long term mega deal with Pujols?

These documents often don’t exist in the Dominican Republic and other places, or are easily forged, or are created long after the fact. Proving age is difficult in much of the second and third world. That Pujols is probably older than he officially states is old news, and was floating around well before the Angels contract. (https://www.insider.com/albert-pujol...his-age-2021-3). It was a common joke when he was still a Cardinal.

One would think this would discourage the Angels. One would also think that Pujols wouldn’t get his age mixed up, as he has several times, if it was true. But then again Moreno doesn’t exactly make brilliant signings.

I don’t know if it is true; I don’t have access to relevant documentation that may be extant or to sources in the Dominican. But it’s not particularly uncommon, and it puts his career into the normal decline and fall if he his, as has long been suspected, a couple years older. I think it’s likely Pujols is just a bit older than he says, that there is nothing peculiar about his decline.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

These documents often don’t exist in the Dominican Republic and other places, or are easily forged, or are created long after the fact. Proving age is difficult in much of the second and third world. That Pujols is probably older than he officially states is old news, and was floating around well before the Angels contract. (https://www.insider.com/albert-pujol...his-age-2021-3). It was a common joke when he was still a Cardinal.

One would think this would discourage the Angels. One would also think that Pujols wouldn’t get his age mixed up, as he has several times, if it was true. But then again Moreno doesn’t exactly make brilliant signings.

I don’t know if it is true; I don’t have access to relevant documentation that may be extant or to sources in the Dominican. But it’s not particularly uncommon, and it puts his career into the normal decline and fall if he his, as has long been suspected, a couple years older. I think it’s likely Pujols is just a bit older than he says, that there is nothing peculiar about his decline.

If he's 43 or 44 now that's awfully damn old for anyone except maybe Julio Franco to still be playing and even semi productive. And it sure doesn't make the Angels look good, unless maybe the thought was they would get 3 or 4 really productive years out of it even if he was older than officially stated. It's also pretty unusual to be playing 10+ years in decline, no?

In hindsight the Cardinals made a brilliant move.

[Kzoo]

Rickey was still playing (30 games) at age 44 for the Dodgers and actually stole 3 bases that year without being caught......but Franco playing till he was 49 is just crazy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kzoo

Rickey was still playing (30 games) at age 44 for the Dodgers and actually stole 3 bases that year without being caught......but Franco playing till he was 49 is just crazy.

Franco is probably still playing somewhere.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If he's 43 or 44 now that's awfully damn old for anyone except maybe Julio Franco to still be playing and even semi productive. And it sure doesn't make the Angels look good, unless maybe the thought was they would get 3 or 4 really productive years out of it even if he was older than officially stated. It's also pretty unusual to be playing 10+ years in decline, no?

In hindsight the Cardinals made a brilliant move.

Yeah it’s unusual to play a decade in decline. If you’re a fan favorite legend getting paid $25M a year, it’s easier. Personally they should have cut him in 2018. These decade plus contracts usually do not work out well for the team.

[grizjunkie23]

Hands down the most dominant player of the 2000's. Anybody watching and collecting at the time could tell you he was "the guy" to chase, similar to Jr. in the 90's. The Angels probably expected to get 4-5 years of remaining prime Pujols, but the fall-off came much sooner than expected. Regardless, baseball is defined by generational players and 2001-2010 belong to him. He was great for the sport at a time when it was reeling from PED scandals.

This is my only Pujols. Wanted an attractive on-card rookie auto I wouldn't need to mortgage a leg for a la the BCA. Probably the nicest autograph I've seen on a copy, too, as they were notorious for blistering/fading. I grew up reading Beckett magazine and remember this thing sitting on the "Hot List" for years at a time.

[gonefishin]

Nice card! The auto should have been a 10. Congrats.

[Robextend]

[gonefishin]

Great items Rob! I especially like the ROY items. Congrats!

[gonefishin]

Albert hit another last night - 2 away from A (Steriods) Rod.

[frankhardy]

Being a Cardinals collector, I was very fortunate to get some of these early on. Some of these card prices are out of sight now.