Unknown Babe Adams Strip-esque card

[brianp-beme]

This is what I believe to be a fantasy piece, but does anybody recognize where the image used for it came from? I posted about this card here ten years ago, and had no definitive response as far as identification, and thought it was about time to re-post this inquiry and see if anybody recognizes it. At that time I had seen another card on ebay, this one of Waite Hoyt, that also had a similar look in design and artwork, which would probably make it an early 1920's issue, if it were real. Unfortunately did not save image of the Hoyt example.

Here is the link to the original post:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114456

Brian

[VoodooChild]

it's from a W515-1. I'm pretty sure I have one, but I'm at work and don't have a scan. Here's the image I googled:

[brianp-beme]

Good call Jason...definitely looks like it was derived from the W515 card, or perhaps from whatever photo that the makers of the W515 set used to create the Adams card.

Brian

[VoodooChild]

I'm bored at work. Google is passing the time. Maybe this is the photo that was used?

[brianp-beme]

Being bored at work can be the time when we are most productive in our collecting interests.

I would say that the photo shown is most likely the source image, especially because of the background match on the W515 card.

Brian

[Yastrzemski Sports]

I have heard that the strip cards with blue lettering were reproductions.

[brianp-beme]

A follow up on this topic...here is a a strip of five of these cards I encountered, including the Adams I have, the Hoyt I noticed being sold previously, as well as a Cobb. What do you people make of this strip?

Brian

[GeoPoto]

Made in Germany?!

[nolemmings]

Well, although I don't concede that it's genuine, it does appear to follow the design and general color scheme of the 1923 German transfers. Same images as W515-1 with modified colored backgrounds, blue font and year of production (if real). Note that although the cards are unnumbered, they do correspond with numbers 6-10 of the W515-1 set, which suggests they were properly placed on a strip that followed the same printing scheme. Still, the "Made in Germany" statement seems almost conveniently placed to me.

[swarmee]

Would any counterfeiter in the US get the upside down quotation mark on "Ty" wrong? Europe would make more sense for that mistake because I know Spanish uses upside down literary marks (like exclamation points and question marks) at the beginning of sentences.
Plus, being from Europe would explain why they're rarely found. You think the counterfeiter who made this would release the Babe Adams and Waite Hoyt first? Or would they get the entire strip out there first? Or just make a sheet of all Ty Cobbs?

Does it fluouresce under black light? I lean towards real.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Well, although I don't concede that it's genuine, it does appear to follow the design and general color scheme of the 1923 German transfers. Same images as W515-1 with modified colored backgrounds, blue font and year of production (if real). Note that although the cards are unnumbered, they do correspond with numbers 6-10 of the W515-1 set, which suggests they were properly placed on a strip that followed the same printing scheme. Still, the "Made in Germany" statement seems almost conveniently placed to me.

Thanks Todd for your thoughts. Once I saw this strip, I too thought that stylistically they reminded me of the German transfers, which I had not quite made the connection before. The red ink 'Made in Germany' catches the eye in the wrong way, but the transfers have always seemed a little off compared to other issues of the period...they just look different. At least this strip makes me want to move my Adams to the outskirts of my regular collection, after residing for years in the reprint rubble pile.

Brian

[Vintagecatcher]

Hi Brian,

The fact that the Ty Cobb card lists him as Manager & Outfitter would mean the strip cards were most likely created between 1921-1926 when Ty was the manager for the Detroit Tigers.

Patrick

[Leon]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Well, although I don't concede that it's genuine, it does appear to follow the design and general color scheme of the 1923 German transfers. Same images as W515-1 with modified colored backgrounds, blue font and year of production (if real). Note that although the cards are unnumbered, they do correspond with numbers 6-10 of the W515-1 set, which suggests they were properly placed on a strip that followed the same printing scheme. Still, the "Made in Germany" statement seems almost conveniently placed to me.

I am skeptical as I said in the first thread Brian pointed to. I could be wrong..I would like to be able to hold it in person...
.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Would any counterfeiter in the US get the upside down quotation mark on "Ty" wrong? Europe would make more sense for that mistake because I know Spanish uses upside down literary marks (like exclamation points and question marks) at the beginning of sentences.
Plus, being from Europe would explain why they're rarely found. You think the counterfeiter who made this would release the Babe Adams and Waite Hoyt first? Or would they get the entire strip out there first? Or just make a sheet of all Ty Cobbs?

Does it fluouresce under black light? I lean towards real.

I have had the Babe Adams card for probably 15 years, and saw the Hoyt about 10 years ago. Until this strip I had not seen any others. And good info on the punctuation, and I find it interesting that they used the fun "Tygers" for the team name, which I seem to remember having seen on some other card issue, but for the life of me I can't remember in which set. I would have to dig out the card from the reprint rubble pile to see if it glows in the dark, and will eventually let all know the results.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Hi Brian,

The fact that the Ty Cobb card lists him as Manager & Outfitter would mean the strip cards were most likely created between 1921-1926 when Ty was the manager for the Detroit Tigers.

Patrick

Hi Patrick, that would definitely place it in the same time frame as the W515 sets (1923), as well as the German Transfers (1923). If a reprint at least they made a correct identification of his Manager/Outfielder designation during that time frame, and in a way that is seen in some other issues from the period.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am skeptical as I said in the first thread Brian pointed to. I could be wrong..I would like to be able to hold it in person...
.

To shift this into a money making enterprise, I have concocted a scheme to charge people $20, which would allow them to fondle my Adams card for a 15 minute interval.

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

To shift this into a money making enterprise, I have concocted a scheme to charge people $20, which would allow them to fondle my Adams card for a 15 minute interval.

Brian

First of all, as I said and want to reiterate, I don't think it's real from others I have seen but it definitely could be., I have seen one-off strip cards before...and have owned a few.

Now as far as your Adams, as long as it's not your Johnson you're letting me hold, I think we are fine!
.

[benge610]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

To shift this into a money making enterprise, I have concocted a scheme to charge people $20, which would allow them to fondle my Adams card for a 15 minute interval.

Brian

Are fondle tickets sold in advance?
Or can I get in line at the door,
with my white gloves adorned and knuckles cracked?

Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[brianp-beme]

I tested the Adams with a black light, and it does not fluoresce. And I have rescanned it, and now have a back scan.

As of yet, no Johnson has been spotted, so for the time being we are in the clear, and my card pimping enterprise is still a go.

Brian

[Leon]

I used to own these. Note the red W572. No doubt it's legitimate.....I think a board member has it now..

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I have had the Babe Adams card for probably 15 years, and saw the Hoyt about 10 years ago. Until this strip I had not seen any others. And good info on the punctuation, and I find it interesting that they used the fun "Tygers" for the team name, which I seem to remember having seen on some other card issue, but for the life of me I can't remember in which set. I would have to dig out the card from the reprint rubble pile to see if it glows in the dark, and will eventually let all know the results.

Brian

Brian, the 'Tygers" designation is also found on the W515 card, as is the same stated manager/position. Also, the Walker card in the strip you showed incorrectly listed him on the Philadelphias N.L instead of A.L., but this too lines up with W515 as a UER.

What is interesting to me is that Adams is identified with Pittsburgh on the W515 card, but here is shown as "Pittsburg's". That seems like a deliberate change, unlike (IMO) the misplaced quote mark around "Ty" Cobb, whose German transfer has the quotes in the correct position.

[G1911]

Don’t know if it’s real or not but this is very cool. The mystery of oddball items like this is part of the fun. I’ve had a number of cards it took years to figure out if they were likely period or not. I hope this turns out to be real

[dbrown]

Oops someone got to this long before I did. Never mind.

---
Related issue?

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../7120-82685.s#

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...cobb-and-more/

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

A follow up on this topic...here is a a strip of five of these cards I encountered, including the Adams I have, the Hoyt I noticed being sold previously, as well as a Cobb. What do you people make of this strip?

Brian

Leaning toward it being a genuine strip card with the inclusion of that uncut strip, the passing of the black light test, and the link to Germany (those 1923 German transfers - “made in Germany”)

[brianp-beme]

I thought it would be interesting to see a comparison of this mystery strip to the corresponding cards from the W515-1 set. I think this strip might have actually been based upon the corresponding W515-2 cards, due to its larger player image, which is what is seen in the W515-2 set.

Brian