Old Holders

[LincolnVT]

I hear a lot of folks talking about how tough the grading companies (primarily SGC and PSA) are these days on recent submissions. Show your cards in old SGC and PSA holders that outshine (for the grade) recently graded cards in your opinion.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I hear a lot of folks talking about how tough the grading companies (primarily SGC and PSA) are these days on recent submissions. Show your cards in old SGC and PSA holders that outshine (for the grade) recently graded cards in your opinion.

You first

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[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

You first

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Haha

[LincolnVT]

I think this looks better than a lot of SGC and PSA cards in new 5 holders.

[Carter08]

Wow. Holder looks great, although a new one would look good too. All I know is grading seems to be much tougher but that looks like a 5 plus all day - no favors there. Gorgeous.

[LincolnVT]

Back.

[Leon]

TPGs have tightened their standards over time. But that doesn't mean some older slabbed cards are over graded. Many are but some aren't.

I think this should warrant a 2.5!


.

[Pat R]

The Grader was pretty lenient on this newly graded Cicotte.

SGC overgrade.jpg

[Santo10Fan]

I actually just bought an old PSA holder off ebay, not pre-war tho. Looked like the grade was spot on.

[Lucas00]

Saw this post on Facebook yesterday.
It's pretty crazy how tough sgc is lately.
No way is the psa one a 6, looks like a 3 or 4.
And no way the sgc one is a 4.5 it looks like an 8.

[Fred]

I've heard different opinions on old holders and new holders and in my opinion, for PSA and SGC, they graders are as subjective in the past as they are now. Translation - same consistently inconsistent grading. Some cards seem spot on, but there are still those that you wonder WTF?

I still buy the card and not the number assigned. It still blows me away that cards are not being purchased for their actual merit, rather the purchase is based on that number on the label.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Leon

TPGs have tightened their standards over time. But that doesn't mean some older slabbed cards are over graded. Many are but some aren't.

I think this should warrant a 2.5!


.

Nice looking Weaver Card

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Nice looking Weaver Card

+1 I love that particular background color on the Obaks!

[LincolnVT]

Originally Posted by Santo10Fan

I actually just bought an old PSA holder off ebay, not pre-war tho. Looked like the grade was spot on.

What card are you going to put in it? Just kidding. Wouldn’t surprise me if people were actually selling empty holders on eBay these days.

[hcv123]

So we'll start with which one of these cards is in better condition (heads up - they are both high grade)? Clemente 1/2 or Clemente 3/4. I'll expand with the reveal and the relevance to the OP after a few guesses.

[bnorth]

These are about as old as it gets for Beckett. They are the 5th and 7th cards they graded in testing. Nice looking pair of 5s.

[JollyElm]

The cropping is different on those two Clementes. Is that a factor here?

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by hcv123

So we'll start with which one of these cards is in better condition (heads up - they are both high grade)? Clemente 1/2 or Clemente 3/4. I'll expand with the reveal and the relevance to the OP after a few guesses.

3/4 but they seem really close

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[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

+1 I love that particular background color on the Obaks!

This 1911 Obak of Skeels also has a similar multi-tone green background as the Weaver. And probably would cost a lot less.

Brian (and to revert to the topic at hand, in relation to this card the only holder that is old, somewhat, is me)

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

This 1911 Obak of Skeels also has a similar multi-tone green background as the Weaver. And probably would cost a lot less.

Brian (and to revert to the topic at hand, in relation to this card the only holder that is old, somewhat, is me)

Good to know Brian, thank you.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I think this looks better than a lot of SGC and PSA cards in new 5 holders.

That is a BEAUTIFUL 48 Leaf Jackie. And one of my all time favorite cards. The grade looks accurate to me in an EX holder. But I'd wager my left nut that it wouldn't cross over to a 5 at PSA today. They'd undergrade that as a 4 every time now.

[LincolnVT]

That may be the case (pun intended), but I still think that the color, surface, registration and centering on the old SGC 5 Jackie outshines many of the same card and issue that I have seen recently in new PSA and SGC 5 holders. Just my opinion.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

That may be the case (pun intended), but I still think that the color, surface, registration and centering on the old SGC 5 Jackie outshines many of the same card and issue that I have seen recently in new PSA and SGC 5 holders. Just my opinion.

Agreed! Gorgeous card Ethan.

Contrary to what others believe, I say your Jackie gets a 5 with Psa as well if submitted today.

[ullmandds]

no question its a nice JR ethan...grading is subjective.

[3-2-count]

Pete, what do your black circles represent? The toning on the borders?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Pete, what do your black circles represent? The toning on the borders?

some kind of print defect/registration issue...as compared to other examples i've viewed.

sorry for the confusion pic was deleted...I was mistaken.

[ullmandds]

comments deleted.

[3-2-count]

I see what you're talking about now, but there are actually a few different variations of this card.

I've seen many which have this same trait where Jackie's shoulder lines don't extend into the borders on each side.

Its not uncommon.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Good to know Brian, thank you.

1911 Koestner has the same background

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

1911 Koestner has the same background

Thanks, Phil. This is such a nice looking set, maybe I'll have to start collecting it.... (not my card)

[steve B]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

well it seems the "line" on the rt side is present on all examples...i thought this was some kind of print defect...the left is just slightly off register...nothing to see here!!!

It's not off register. That card comes with those lines or without, as do most 49 Leaf cards that have portraits or bats near the border.

[steve B]

[LincolnVT]

Originally Posted by steve B

Exactly what I’m talking about.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

The cropping is different on those two Clementes. Is that a factor here?

1/2 is in a "new" PSA 9 holder which sold on Ebay for $1461.41 on Ebay on February 14th, 2022

3/4 is in an "old" PSA 10 holder which sold for $92,308.80 in a Memory Lane auction on February 19th, 2022.

I did not make a mistake with my decimal points and while I am sure we could debate which one is "nicer", (some like myself would choose 1/2), It boggles my mind that 2 people (high bidder and under biider) believe it is nicer to the tune of + $90,847.39!!

[JollyElm]

Here's the cropping difference I was referring to:

[riggs336]

I really like the look of this one.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Here's the cropping difference I was referring to:

The cards on the sheets had plenty of extra image. Probably to keep the sheet from wrinkling when the cards were die cut out of it.

To me that makes it hard to tell centering. It would be easier if I had an uncut sheet to measure from the image edge in to the player, but I doubt PSA does that or knows what dimension to use.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

Exactly what I’m talking about.

I did ask About the Konetchy while I was having some other cards done at a show.
It has a few small issues, one I knew about one I didn't
In general it has the nicest corners/edges I've seen. But one corner has a tiny flake of surface loss. Far smaller than the wear I've seen on other 50's.
They pointed out a very small wrinkle about halfway up the left side. One that doesn't reach the black border.

Plus the pretty obvious shift of one color.

And I think maybe some other tiny flaw.

What they said was that none of those were enough to knock it down to a 50, but cumulatively they were.

The Marshall has a paper inclusion that has caused the ink to wear off right where it is - Yes, that visible white dot. There isn't any paper loss, but I suspect they categorized the ink loss that way.

The other two.... I have no idea.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

no question its a nice JR ethan...but I venture to say its graded accurately...in light it may even warrant a qualifier?

Great looking, Jackie!

And this one is so nice it could have gone a grade higher, imo. The paper loss on back isn't that bad...(says the guy who owns it)

[LincolnVT]

I love it when someone posts a card and another person calls it out, draws all over it then does some research before saying “nothing to see here.” Sure makes a beautiful card look really ugly.

[uniship]

Regardless of the specific topic - that 48 leaf Jackie is straight FIRE!!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I love it when someone posts a card and another person calls it out, draws all over it then does some research before saying “nothing to see here.” Sure makes a beautiful card look really ugly.

I kinda admitted I was wrong? I can delete my posts if you prefer Ethan? I was merely trying to help justify your assigned grade.

Kudos for posting a card!

[LincolnVT]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I kinda admitted I was wrong? I can delete my posts if you prefer Ethan? I was merely trying to help justify your assigned grade.

Kudos for posting a card!

I appreciate this Pete. We all get a bit over zealous when we have something to say. I would just caution people about drawing on other peoples cards…we all have the technology now…

[brianp-beme]

If you ever meet up with Pete in person, make sure your graded cards and his black Sharpie never get too close.

Brian (I assume that is Pete's felt tip marker of choice)

[Seven]

Here's a recent pickup and my contribution to the thread.