Is Memorabilia Catching Up To Pre-War?

[Bpm0014]

Prewar is through the roof. Postwar is through the roof. Has memorabilia caught up? It seems you can’t get a T206 Cobb or a 33 Goudey Ruth or even an 86 Jordan without spending thousands upon thousands. Have Ruth autographs gone up? Have Cobb autographs gone up? Have quality game used bats gone up? Or is it just cards?

[Leon]

Well, I am not sure of the answer but I know my card buying has tapered recently on any of the high demand HOF cards. It is difficult for me to pay 6k for a card which was 2k 6 months ago.

So I might move into memorabilia a little bit more...

[the-illini]

I hope not - love buying items like this for a fraction of what card prices have escalated to - I suspect photos are due for another jump soon though...

[packs]

Weren't Type 1 photos the first to explode?

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by packs

Weren't Type 1 photos the first to explode?

Not like cards in the past year IMO, and I am fine with that!

[YazFenway08]

Well Leon...you never disappoint....

Are those recent acquisitions??

[Bpm0014]

Type I photos haven’t nearly exploded like everything else. I still think they are so undervalued. Same with Ruth autographs. I guess I’m just not sure if these things will eventually explode and catch up, or they will kind of just always stay the same...

[packs]

Can only speak for myself but I've done pretty well on my Type 1's. Often selling for 4 or 5 times what I paid

[leftygrove10]

Originally Posted by the-illini

I hope not - love buying items like this for a fraction of what card prices have escalated to - I suspect photos are due for another jump soon though...

Your Foxx picture is incredible!

[GaryPassamonte]

I basically went from collecting 19th century cards to 19th century photographs to 19th century memorabilia over the last 30 years. The memorabilia is very under priced. The problem is that the available supply has dried up. The offerings in auctions for the early stuff are sparse compared to the past and collectors are holding on to what they have.

[ngrow9]

I've been thinking much the same. It's crazy to me that a PSA 1 Ruth 1933 Goudey #144 sold for $6,200 last night but an actual lower grade Ruth autographed ball -- albeit multi-signed -- can often be found for half of that (at least the last time I dabbled in the market over the summer). I get supply and demand and all, but that seems to be due for a correction one way or the other before too long.

[packs]

I think one reason for vintage autographs to lag behind is the leap of faith you take on most of them. Modern player autographs have surged through the roof but it's because there is a sense of iron clad authenticity ever since MLB has waded into the arena. An MLB hologram removes any perceived doubt but a TPA letter and it's validity is argued to death every other day.

[ngrow9]

Originally Posted by packs

I think one reason for vintage autographs to lag behind is the leap of faith you take on most of them. Modern player autographs have surged through the roof but it's because there is a sense of iron clad authenticity ever since MLB has waded into the arena. An MLB hologram removes any perceived doubt but a TPA letter and it's validity is argued to death every other day.

I think that's fair and probably explains a lot of it. But it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

[packs]

I find it ironic as well. But when talking about Babe Ruth or Michael Jordan or Mickey Mantle, they're some of the most forged signatures in the entire hobby while also being some of the most valued. I bought a Ruth from a major auction house with a major TPA only to post it on the board and find out it was fake. No harm came to me in the end but I'm not in a rush to buy either. And if I do I have to consider I might be paying for nothing.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by leftygrove10

Your Foxx picture is incredible!

Thanks Brad! It is one of my favorites

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

Maybe this, from PSA's guarantee, is why: "the Guarantee applies only to the grade assigned to the card and does not apply to the authenticity of any autograph nor the grade assigned to any autograph."

And also this gem from the submission form: "THE MAXIMUM AGGREGATE LIABILITY THAT PSA SHALL HAVE TO CUSTOMER, OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR WHOM THE CUSTOMER MAY BE ACT- ING, ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE, ACT, OMISSION OR OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE, SHALL IN NO EVENT EXCEED AUTHENTICATION/GRADING CHARGES PAID BY CUSTOMER FOR THE AUTHENTICATION SERVICES RENDERED BY PSA WITH RESPECT TO THE ITEMS SUBMITTED FOR AUTHENTICATION HEREUNDER."

In other words, PSA's opinion is a popcorn fart; empty gas with nothing back of it.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

I basically went from collecting 19th century cards to 19th century photographs to 19th century memorabilia over the last 30 years. The memorabilia is very under priced. The problem is that the available supply has dried up. The offerings in auctions for the early stuff are sparse compared to the past and collectors are holding on to what they have.

I agree completely. Much of the stuff is scarce, and i think jerseys especially are very undervalued. Especially now relative to cards. But the stuff doesnt get the turnover to show it. Might even be too scarce for the hot money!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by YazFenway08

Well Leon...you never disappoint....

Are those recent acquisitions??

The scorecard is a recent acquisition. The team picture (on the back cover) is so great I had to have it. Not sure where I am going with it but in today's environment it seems like an undervalued piece.

But as said, some of this stuff (and this item isn't one of them as a few sales can be found) is so scarce it hurts its value. As a collector of rare type cards I have some experience. Rarity doesn't equal value, demand does.

[Bpm0014]

That score card is great! I myself just picked up a rookie Joe Jackson scorecard. He had 3 hits in the game too…

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

I think that's fair and probably explains a lot of it. But it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

....which is ironic, because their autograph authentication is far more reliable than their 20 second card reviews which fail to include a blacklight or ruler.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by packs

I think one reason for vintage autographs to lag behind is the leap of faith you take on most of them. Modern player autographs have surged through the roof but it's because there is a sense of iron clad authenticity ever since MLB has waded into the arena. An MLB hologram removes any perceived doubt but a TPA letter and it's validity is argued to death every other day.

I took the leap of faith 6-7 years ago to get back into cards because I didn't like all the forgeries in autographs. Then I realized Cards were a Billion Dollar Fraud and people gave me S*** about it and said my valuation of the fraud was WAY TOO high. I ended at 1 Ruth, plus everything else I could have ever wanted, but like most, will not pay 6K for a 1. Everyone has to draw the line in the sand and that's mine.

I've been back dabbling filling some FADED autograph holes and notice they have gone up in price very marginally (20%), unlike all my fake trimmed soaked cards that have gone up 10X.

[packs]

That's why I like to stick to collector grade when it comes to cards. If you mucked around with your card enough to earn the 1 or 1.5 I'm in the market for, you probably wasted more time than I did making the money to buy it.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

I think that's fair and probably explains a lot of it. But it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

Like for all those autographed t206s?

[ngrow9]

To be clear, I'm not stating that the TPGs are particularly reliable, just that it seems odd that the new money flowing into the hobby trusts them on one side of the house (card grading) but not the other (auto authentication).

[Bpm0014]

Card grading is a more reliable science than autograph grading/authenticating. (For the most part).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by rats60

Like for all those autographed t206s?

To be fair, only one of the exposed fakes (albeit an expensive one) was authenticated by PSA.

The majority of them were SGC authenticated. And if you knew anything at all, you could tell they were bad at first glance. Ridiculous overly shaky examples, presumably created to emulate a very old person's hand writing.

[MVSNYC]

Special (high-quality) Game Used bats have certainly gone up, as well as autographs, ticket stubs, etc. High tide raises all boats...especially Blue Chip names (Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Jeter, Trout, etc).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Special (high-quality) Game Used bats have certainly gone up, as well as autographs, ticket stubs, etc. High tide raises all boats...especially Blue Chip names (Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Jeter, Trout, etc).

I don't track game used bats but it's not surprising they are lifting with the tide. Except for some Type 1 photos the memorabilia sector hasn't gone up anywhere near what the cards have. I guess if it can be slabbed it will go up and if not, it might not. All hail the mighty plastic.

.

[MVSNYC]

Leon, cool piece.

Yeah, special pieces across the board, in the Memorabilia world are certainly rising. Peruse the current Heritage Platinum auction- Bats, Jerseys, Contracts, Photos, Signed Balls & Checks, Ticket Stubs, Line-Up Cards, Rings, etc...If it's a quality piece of a blue chip player, it's on the rise.

[ramram]

I would think Negro League material would be making another strong run considering the new ruling by MLB. Not sure that it's made much of a move yet or not though.

Rob M

[Bpm0014]

Except for some Type 1 photos the memorabilia sector hasn't gone up anywhere near what the cards have.

Exactly.