Auction Problem

[ballparks]

I am looking for people's thoughts as to what I should do and what is fair. Perhaps others have been in this situation before. I just purchased a couple of great tickets in an auction. I've attached the photo. When they arrived, one of them has a rip in it that was clearly not present in the original photo. In people's experience or opinion, what should I do about this? I have contacted the auction house but have not heard back yet as it's still the weekend.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I know I don't do partial refunds.You can return it for a full refund (hopefully) but I wouldn't count on a negotiated settlement though it might be possible.

[doug.goodman]

That's a bummer. Seems like a partial refund would be fair.

Doug

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

That's a bummer. Seems like a partial refund would be fair.

Doug

How much would you think is reasonable. It's publicly available, so I can say that it was $4848 with BP for the pair (one lot).

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

That's a bummer. Seems like a partial refund would be fair.

Doug

The ticket is not from me, just to be clear.

The reason we don't do partial refunds is, let's say the tickets were a group lot and he really only wanted one and figured he could get a discount by destroying the one he didn't want. It just opens up a lot of cans of worms. If something is returned he would have another opportunity down the road to purchase the item at an appropriate rate as it would likely be sold in a future auction with a new description.

[perezfan]

I've received partial refunds on several occasions. Sometimes for items not as described, and sometimes for items that were damaged in transit. If you still want these tickets, I would inquire about a partial refund... with a dollar figure in mind.

That rip would bug me to no end, but everyone has a different level of OCD.

Was it well protected? Can you tell if it happened in transit, or do you think someone at the AH damaged it prior to packing/shipping? Given what you paid, I would think that an $800 - $1,000 refund is a very fair number to request. Then you can see where it goes from there.

Hope this helps, and best of luck!

[perezfan]

I just noticed which AH is involved. They are a bit difficult, but could possibly compromise with you. I have had mixed results with them, and have a few friends who were made whole (but only after a long "back and forth" ordeal).

Please keep us posted, and let us know how this turns out!

[hcv123]

Worst case scenario is return for refund as item was not as described. I'm presuming you are asking the question because you have an interest, damage not withstanding, in one or both tickets. If that's the case then as previously suggested, communicate that you are open to keeping them for X$ reduction for the damage and see how the AH responds. They might be uncomfortable and give you the option to keep them or send them back as is or they may negotiate with you. Sorry to see that happen.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I know I don't do partial refunds.You can return it for a full refund (hopefully) but I wouldn't count on a negotiated settlement though it might be possible.

I agree with no partial refunds for many reasons. I have had many similar problems myself. I have either returned for a refund when possible or kept the item. I was mad but still happy with the item at the price.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I just noticed which AH is involved. They are a bit difficult, but could possibly compromise with you.

I agree. I had a similar issue on a paper item from them and was extremely displeased with how they addressed it. Please let us know if you make an progress.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Understand also that an auction house is always going to be leery of setting a precedent and opening the floodgates to specious claims (not saying your is specious.) I am a fairly light touch for a refund as long as I have no reason to suspect foul play (the buyer damaged the item or is making a switch etc.) but I think some are afraid of getting the reputation of being too generous with returns which definitely can encourage abuse.

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

I agree. I had a similar issue on a paper item from them and was extremely displeased with how they addressed it. Please let us know if you make an progress.

Update for the forum..........

So the initial response is that in the description it talked about a tear, so they can’t do anything about it, even if the photo looked perfect. (Clearly that means that the ticket got torn in their possession). I ask them politely to review again as this seems a stretch. I will update afterwards as they said they would.

[Joe Hunter]

The photo doesn't match the description. You can see the pinhole, but no tear is visible that I can see. In hind sight, you probably would have contacted the AH in advance of bidding about this disparity. That being said, I do think a partial refund is appropriate.

[perezfan]

That is just unacceptable....

The disclosure in their description does not even come close to addressing the magnitude of that tear. And in looking at the Ticket on their website, even under extreme magnification, you cannot see any tear in the upper-right quadrant.

I would threaten legal recourse if they really think that they properly disclosed this condition issue. Especially given what you paid.

Hate to say it, but I had a feeling they would make this challenging.

Best of luck!

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That is just unacceptable....

The disclosure in their description does not even come close to addressing the magnitude of that tear. And in looking at the Ticket on their website, even under extreme magnification, you cannot see any tear in the upper-right quadrant.

I would threaten legal recourse if they really think that they properly disclosed this condition issue. Especially given what you paid.

Hate to say it, but I had a feeling they would make this challenging.

Best of luck!

I hear you!

That said, I am a very fair person and hope that things resolve amicably. I spend a LOT on tickets/programs every year and hope that my reputation for honesty will help me out on this one. They said they would review and I am hoping that they will realize that currently the situation is just not 'right'.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That is just unacceptable....

The disclosure in their description does not even come close to addressing the magnitude of that tear. And in looking at the Ticket on their website, even under extreme magnification, you cannot see any tear in the upper-right quadrant.

I would threaten legal recourse if they really think that they properly disclosed this condition issue. Especially given what you paid.

Hate to say it, but I had a feeling they would make this challenging.

Best of luck!

It's bad enough that their photos are terribly low-res to being with. With that response, it's almost like they're insinuating that it's your fault for bidding on the lot.

[Exhibitman]

Out them.

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Out them.

I am very much hoping that later this week I can give a 'they dealt with this well in the end' type of post. I'm trying to be as calm and reasonable about this as I can and trying to glean from the advanced collecting community what people think is fair as I approach them. I really think that they should take back the item that is damaged for a fair percentage of the final auction value (with BP of course).

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Out them.

There is a Hunt sticker on the topload. Look at the photo in the original post.

[buymycards]

Looking at the scans on the auction site, there isn't a hint of that tear on the right side of the ticket. I can see a crease on the left side, and I see the pinhole, but the tear is not visible.

https://www.huntauctions.com/live/im...t_qual=&closed

[Joe Hunter]

The rip probably lowers the value of the ticket by at least 30-40%, so that is what I would ask for in terms of a reasonable settlement, that is if you want to keep it at all. I would agree with Perezfan that $800-1000 refund is not out of line.

[111gecko]

Wondering if the crease on the left side (1919) was considered torn and the slice on the right was a "woops" during packing/shipping. Absolutely no way that was there in the original listing..If it was; that is some of the finest photography work in history.
Please keep us updated as to the response.

[Shoeless Moe]

To Hunts defense they use a Polaroid camera, so it doesn't give the best pictures.

Perhaps they shook the picture too hard after it came through the camera.

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

Wondering if the crease on the left side (1919) was considered torn and the slice on the right was a "woops" during packing/shipping. Absolutely no way that was there in the original listing..If it was; that is some of the finest photography work in history.
Please keep us updated as to the response.

This is what I thought based on the description and when I received the item. No way that it was there before the photo was taken. As you can see in the holder, it is in a second sleeve within the top loader, so I believe it was an oops. I didn't see anything else of concern on the photo and thought that the tear at the crueaseline would be where it was torn at the gate.

[ballparks]

So, an update:

I spoke with their Customer Service Rep and the Head of the auction house wants to have a discussion next week. They are swamped with an upcoming auction and were very sincerely apologetic for the delay. The woman I chatted with was very friendly and seemingly responsive, so I will keep fingers crossed they indeed want to make it better.

I think (and realllllly hope) this will get resolved and I will update the group either way. I appreciate everyone's thoughts as to what is fair as although I have been in the hobby for the past 30+ years, I have not had something like this with an item that expensive and significant.

Cheers!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ballparks

So, an update:

I spoke with their Customer Service Rep and the Head of the auction house wants to have a discussion next week. They are swamped with an upcoming auction and were very sincerely apologetic for the delay. The woman I chatted with was very friendly and seemingly responsive, so I will keep fingers crossed they indeed want to make it better.

I think (and realllllly hope) this will get resolved and I will update the group either way. I appreciate everyone's thoughts as to what is fair as although I have been in the hobby for the past 30+ years, I have not had something like this with an item that expensive and significant.

Cheers!

It's good that you (and they) are keeping it cordial. It would be tough for me to contain myself, but sounds like you have better self-restraint. What's the saying about "you'll attract more flies with honey" or something to that effect?

Anyway, please do keep us posted. The way in which they respond will go a long way towards keeping our trust and faith in them as a respected auction house (despite the 1990s website and Polaroid photos!)

Thanks for the update!

[buymycards]

Update?

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Update?

Having a scheduled discussion with them. Will update afterwards. Hopeful!!!

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by ballparks

Having a scheduled discussion with them. Will update afterwards. Hopeful!!!

When is it scheduled for?


As in date and time, and medium

I want details dammit!!

[ballparks]

So, the update is that I had a very fair and reasonable conversation with the head of the auction house. He is going to get the ticket restored professionally and then we will determine within reason what the actual decreased 'value' is of the ticket after that. Looking at all previous sales and the lot, this is certainly the lesser of the two items to start with, but not lesser enough with the tear that I want to give it up. I would value it at $2000 of the $4848 with BP that I paid if the lot would be percentaged off? I have only seen a total of 19 of the Game 2 tickets either sell or for sale over the past 15 years and even with a restored ticket, tiny puncture and small crease, it's in the upper 25% of those.

He seemed very dedicated to making it right, and I agreed to a restoration. Regardless, this bit of history needs to be properly preserved.

Thanks to everyone for your input as I have never been in this situation before. Hopefully when all is said and done, the amount of post-restoration compensation will be easy to agree upon. If you ever see this ticket for sale, it either means that I got a replacement one (likely only if part of a bigger lot), I have gone broke (that would be awful) or I'm dead!!! My eventual goal is a 'full' set of WS tickets and that is a lifelong project. Cheers.

[ballparks]

At this point, post-covid, they offered to pay for HALF the restoration fee of $700. This seems minimal and unfair. Thoughts as to what I should do about this? I really want this to be resolved fairly and NOT have to pay another $350 to get the item I bought on auction.

Originally Posted by ballparks

So, the update is that I had a very fair and reasonable conversation with the head of the auction house. He is going to get the ticket restored professionally and then we will determine within reason what the actual decreased 'value' is of the ticket after that. Looking at all previous sales and the lot, this is certainly the lesser of the two items to start with, but not lesser enough with the tear that I want to give it up. I would value it at $2000 of the $4848 with BP that I paid if the lot would be percentaged off? I have only seen a total of 19 of the Game 2 tickets either sell or for sale over the past 15 years and even with a restored ticket, tiny puncture and small crease, it's in the upper 25% of those.

He seemed very dedicated to making it right, and I agreed to a restoration. Regardless, this bit of history needs to be properly preserved.

Thanks to everyone for your input as I have never been in this situation before. Hopefully when all is said and done, the amount of post-restoration compensation will be easy to agree upon. If you ever see this ticket for sale, it either means that I got a replacement one (likely only if part of a bigger lot), I have gone broke (that would be awful) or I'm dead!!! My eventual goal is a 'full' set of WS tickets and that is a lifelong project. Cheers.

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by ballparks

At this point, post-covid, they offered to pay for HALF the restoration fee of $700. This seems minimal and unfair. Thoughts as to what I should do about this? I really want this to be resolved fairly and NOT have to pay another $350 to get the item I bought on auction.

Ruth-Gehrig: your mailbox is full!!!

[ruth-gehrig]

Please resend I just deleted some messages.
Thanks

[perezfan]

Cannot believe this one is still dragging on without resolution after another half a year has passed... I would be pissed off as well.

I think you should raise a stink and threaten legal recourse or at least small claims court. Not sure if it's really worth incurring legal fees (perhaps not) but would definitely hit them with that potential outcome. You should not be out an extra penny... this is their screwup and they need to make it right.

With the millions of dollars they bring in with each live auction, I cannot believe they are being this petty. You should bear no cost/responsibility, period!

[Jcosta19]

So to be clear, they are going back on their promise to have it restored, and then determine the difference in value?

So they expect you to still have paid the full value of the undamaged ticket and also half of the restoration? (That is not minimal or unfair, that is ludacris)

Has the restoration already been done? And who has possession of the ticket at this point?


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[Mark]

It's very surprising and disappointing that they are delaying so long and going back on their promise. Did they explain why they are altering their offer? (surely it's not because we are now "post-covid".) I wish that you could send the issue to an arbiter to settle it.

[ballparks]

I really do wish there was an arbiter that could 'rule' on this. I am for sure not prepared to pay more than what I did to win the auction for an item to be restored and at lesser value than what I even paid for it initially! I did pay a $717 BP for the auction, so trying to get another $350 from me does seem petty.

That said, $700 seems also crazy. They offered another option that they felt not as good for $160 but there should be a happy medium?

The resolution was delayed from Covid as the restoration places as well as the auction house were not working on site for a couple of months. I am more interested in getting the item done properly versus just 'getting it in my pocket fastest'.

I hate that this has happened. I really feel powerless.

Originally Posted by Mark

It's very surprising and disappointing that they are delaying so long and going back on their promise. Did they explain why they are altering their offer? (surely it's not because we are now "post-covid".) I wish that you could send the issue to an arbiter to settle it.

[Bugsy]

Total garbage. I would just request to return the entire lot and ask for a full refund at this point.

[Jcosta19]

I sympathize and am sorry you are having to deal with this.

Is it at all possible that so much time went by that the auction house could have forgotten the previous agreed upon terms or even mixed your situation up with another customer?

I'm probably giving them the benefit of doubt for no reason, but if by any chance the above offer was communicated through email only and not from the same person (I believe you said owner) who offered the original plan then I would make sure you speak directly and remind them of the previous conversations, if not already done so.

I hope somehow this works out in the long run.

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[thetahat]

Just FYI, this auction house is near me, I once won a pennant only to get it and find that the bottom tassels were glued into place (with the threads loose beyond them). I was flatly shot down when I contacted them with displeasure. They said I had the option of inspecting it in person at the live part of the auction (I bid via internet) or asking about it. Really lame.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I just noticed which AH is involved. They are a bit difficult, but could possibly compromise with you. I have had mixed results with them, and have a few friends who were made whole (but only after a long "back and forth" ordeal).

Please keep us posted, and let us know how this turns out!

Before looking I knew who it was just from this comment. I was in a similar situation. After a week and a half of getting the run around...ie "you'll be called tomorrow"/call never comes. I was offered a laughable partial refund...something along the lines of $50 on an $1800 item...and then a full refund. Definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.

Poor descriptions, poor pictures and/or descriptions that don't match the pictures is fairly standard at many auction houses in my experience.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Just FYI, this auction house is near me, I once won a pennant only to get it and find that the bottom tassels were glued into place (with the threads loose beyond them). I was flatly shot down when I contacted them with displeasure. They said I had the option of inspecting it in person at the live part of the auction (I bid via internet) or asking about it. Really lame.

I was told the same exact thing with a lot I won. They offered to send the item to their conservator at my expense. I still don't understand why they blame they buyer when they could either take it out of the seller's end or their own pocket. After all, the seller and auction house both had the item in-hand to inspect, not the buyer.

[conor912]

Get a full refund, let them deal with the hassle of reselling (i assume the consignor has long been paid, so reselling will be at a loss to the AH), and never bid wit them again. They lose money and worse, a customer.....in the end, you’re out nothing bu aggravation. This is the only solution thats not gonna leave a bad taste in your mouth.

[Gorditadogg]

That is really BS. They are counting on you to want to keep the tickets. I guess you don't need to get the item restored right? You could just take their $350 and be done with it. Hopefully they don't have a side deal with the restorer to get a kickback on the $700 so they shouldn't care if you restore it or not.

I'm not saying that $350 should be enough, it's probably not. And it sucks that the AH does not want to make it right, they should foot the bill for the whole $700.

Hope you get a fair resolution.

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[ballparks]

So, I ended up going with a company separate from the auction house who would do the restoration cheaper. They gave me $400 for the issue. I am generally powerless against a well known auction house, despite collecting for 30+ years.

The ticket is getting restored and looks terrific. That doesn't take away from the issue that it was restored, likely reducing the value, but at least I have it intact and it will display well.

The only way I will ever find out if I got taken is if I sell it, which I will have no intention of. This is a terrible experience overall for me, and as they always say - let the buyer beware.

[perezfan]

Next time we as customers consider bidding with them, perhaps we should HUNT for another auction house. Unfortunately that's often the only way to avoid getting taken.