T206 - Mystery Reprints

[earthprime]

Good morning everyone!

I have two T206 cards that I'm fairly certain aren't legitimate, but I've always wanted to know their origin or which reprint set they may have come from. I acquired the cards in 1992.

The unique thing about these two cards is they're two-sided; one card has portraits for Bender/Mathewson and the other card has portraits for Waddell/Walsh. I'm not able to find any information about two-sided T206 cards or reprints with portraits on both sides. The cards are slightly thicker than authentic T206, almost like its two originals stuck together (maybe some sort of printer's proof?).

I've attached three images. Two images show the front and back of my two cards (portrait on each side for Bender/Mathewson and Waddell/Walsh). A third image includes two other authentic T206 cards so you can see how closely the unknown cards match the size and color-scheme of a real T206.

I appreciate any insight. I assume the cards are reprints of some sort, just have no idea from where.

[packs]

Any blue old mills?

[earthprime]

None with an Old Mill backing. Just these two double-portrait mystery cards, and two authentic 'Piedmont' for Donohue and Tinker.

[obcmac]

Originally Posted by packs

Any blue old mills?

Good question

[atx840]

The two-sided cards do not look legit. The font should be brown, the corners are to symmetrical and the image should be crisper than what these have.

I have never seen two sided either, maybe someone has glued two together?

[earthprime]

Originally Posted by atx840

The two-sided cards do not look legit. The font should be brown, the corners are to symmetrical and the image should be crisper than what these have.

I have never seen two sided either, maybe someone has glued two together?

Attached is a magnified image of the side of the 'double-portrait' cards. Every indication is this ISN'T two cards glued together ... its as if the cards came from a single printed sheet.

[Ronnie73]

I haven't seen any T206 design reprints that use the front image on both sides. Usually because the paper has one side usually smoother and whiter to accept the color image better than the darker ruffer side of the paper. Can you tell if both sides have the same type of paper or gloss? Most odd ball reprint cards are made to replicate the originals and to deceive people into purchasing them. I don't see the reason for these to have been made except for personal enjoyment.

I do like that others are still asking and looking for Blue Old Mill's. Are we still at 3 found so far? One of these days I'll get around to checking all of mine.

[earthprime]

Looking at my authentic T206 - I can see what you mean that the portrait side is glossy while the logo on the back is a softer material.

For my mystery cards, both sides have the same 'portrait' glossy feel. An inspection under a magnifying glass suggests the card is one single piece of paper - the best description is having a thickness almost (but not quite) as thick as a real T206. Intense magnification suggests that there isn't a seam anywhere around either card where two cards may have been connected in some way.

I'm considering sending them off to PSA - just to have a forensic look at them. Its possible they were made for some personal enjoyment, but they have a professional production quality. My best guess is they may have been part of a larger sheet of two-sided cards, possibly as a special in a sports magazine sometime in the early 90s. However, the cut doesn't appear as if someone used scissors to separate the cards from a larger sheet.

Has anyone ever submitted to PSA - and is it possible they encounter cards like these where they can't figure anything out about them?

[jcmtiger]

From a book of t206 cards in the1990's ?

[earthprime]

Book of reprint cards.

I'd like to think they came from some printer's proof sheet of portraits for the original T206, but I doubt thats even remotely possible. I also don't know the process for the original printing, if proof sheets were even used like this - like there's no point to print a portrait on both sides of the card.

[packs]

I asked about the blue old mills because I believe them to be reprints as well. There are several reprinted series that feature blue old mill backs. Odd coincidence or source?

[earthprime]

Are there any distinguishing features (telltale signs) of a Blue Mill reprint? I can pull out the scope again to distinguish color or ink patterns, to see if they match. By any chance, are there known Blue Mill reprint cards for one of the four players I have (Bender/Mathewson/Waddell/Walsh) where I could compare images?

[packs]

I think only the Walsh blue old mill isn't considered a reprint. But there are many different sets that have reprinted T206s with a blue old mill back.

[Tao_Moko]

I have a physical copy of this book somewhere(sorry for no hyperlink):.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/202868755800?...app-cvip-panel

These were the most recognizable reprints to me and later a full set that came in box form. What you have looks 100% like a reprint to me. I worked in card shops from the '84-'92 and have seen alot of reprints but never a two sided T206 like you have. The stock appears thicker than I would expect so maybe they're maticulously adhered.

[earthprime]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

I have a physical copy of this book somewhere(sorry for no hyperlink):.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/202868755800?...app-cvip-panel

These were the most recognizable reprints to me and later a full set that came in box form. What you have looks 100% like a reprint to me. I worked in card shops from the '84-'92 and have seen alot of reprints but never a two sided T206 like you have. The stock appears thicker than I would expect so maybe they're maticulously adhered.

I'm attaching three more images. Two show the mystery card from the side (card on the left) lined up next to an authentic T206 on the right - so you can see the thickness of the paper. You can also see it appears to be a solid piece of paper. However, looking closer, I think I can see a slight seperation, as if two cards together. But this corner (in my picture) is the only place that looks like this, the rest of the card is one solid piece. I think this is caused by wear at the corner, exposing the soft paper interior against the thicker gloss portraits. But I could be wrong - just scared to start tearing the card apart

A third image is comparing the two mystery cards from the front. You can see the gloss shine, and it does look like the lower trim is different, as if these were cut at different places.

Not trying to create noise, just additional data points.

[Ronnie73]

By looking at the glossy finish on that last photo, it reminds me of some cards from a board game but I've never seen a board game use T206 designs. Maybe they are simply just some normal reprint cards from any one of the common reprint sets and were actually glued back to back really well with a clamp. It would be hard to find the seam of two skinned newer reprints that were glued extremely well and then sanding the corners and edges until they had an old rounded look. Either way, they are very interesting reprints.

[slantycouch]

Printing method definitely appears to be modern, too.

[Bpm0014]

I'm not sure why we spent more than 2 minutes on this. Definitely 100% without question reprints. Probably 2 reprints glued together. Everything is totally wrong on the cards to be considered authentic or even "scrap".

[earthprime]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

I'm not sure why we spent more than 2 minutes on this. Definitely 100% without question reprints. Probably 2 reprints glued together. Everything is totally wrong on the cards to be considered authentic or even "scrap".

Agreed they're reprints. Do you have a recommendation for a service (possibly PSA) who can conduct a forensic deep-dive, to verify if they're legit reprints (an unknown two-sided portrait set), two reprints glued together, or a fake entirely? I've been wondering for 30 years and want to put this to rest using a service who has the ability to make this determination.

[packs]

I'm sure you could convince them to charge you for it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm sure you could convince them to charge you for it.

LOL.....

If it were me I would be satisfied knowing they are reprints. Scientifically proving it seems redundant BUT I have done similar things just to cure my curiosity.

[jggames]

Originally Posted by earthprime

Agreed they're reprints. Do you have a recommendation for a service (possibly PSA) who can conduct a forensic deep-dive, to verify if they're legit reprints (an unknown two-sided portrait set), two reprints glued together, or a fake entirely? I've been wondering for 30 years and want to put this to rest using a service who has the ability to make this determination.

Maybe to clear up terminology here, fake and reprint are the same thing.

[earthprime]

Originally Posted by Leon

LOL.....

If it were me I would be satisfied knowing they are reprints. Scientifically proving it seems redundant BUT I have done similar things just to cure my curiosity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a rare unknown reprint card more desirable on the market than an amateur's counterfeit created in someone's basement?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by jggames

Maybe to clear up terminology here, fake and reprint are the same thing.

For this discussion, sure. Those T206 are fakes.

There are legitimate reprints, though. Topps does it all the time.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by earthprime

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a rare unknown reprint card more desirable on the market than an amateur's counterfeit created in someone's basement?

Many armature made custom cards sell for way more than legit reprints. In this case if someone offered you $1 for it you should be very happy and take the cash.