PWCC market indices

[Peter_Spaeth]

This just in.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/market-indices

[Peter_Spaeth]

If you started the comparison in early 2009, you would of course get a completely different result, since the S and P has more than tripled since then. So the headline, to me, of 250 percent versus 80 is a bit arbitrary.

[kailes2872]

Interesting when you look at the longer list (through 2500), or the 101-500 returns. Basically, all the growth in the top 100 super high grade cards.

It is a very nice site with good analytics and a great site to see PWCC specific prices realized.

[ullmandds]

Interesting...so does the surge in prices in 16' coincide with the artificial run up on key rookie cards from the 50's-60's? Did this attempt jump start the hobby into realizing the older cards are more rare and desirable comparatively? Did the inflated run up prices of the rookies make older top tier cards seem cheap?

[Snapolit1]

It's sort of interesting, but mildly. No problem with them doing it but certainly in their self-interest to show cards are a solid investment.

I'm sure guys selling real estate in [fill in the blank] can provide their own market analysis showing you'd be nuts not to buy a time share in [fill in the blank].

Hell, I've seen Glengarry Glenn Ross many too many times to mention.

[mantlefan]

This would be a good Master Plan:

1.Run up the prices on a few hundred cards.

2. Publish a history of the inflated prices.

3. Get an article in a financial rag touting the superiority of cards over stocks.

4. Get some financial fund guys to buy your cards at stupid prices.

5. Let the prices then fall and re-buy the cards for peanuts.

6. Retire to _____ (insert luxury site without an extradition treaty).

7. Live happily ever after.

OR

8. Go back to step 1.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The most interesting thing to me on these graphs (assuming any of them really mean anything) is that when the stock market crashed from mid 2008 to early 2009, card values remained pretty much flat.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It's sort of interesting, but mildly. No problem with them doing it but certainly in their self-interest to show cards are a solid investment.

I'm sure guys selling real estate in [fill in the blank] can provide their own market analysis showing you'd be nuts not to buy a time share in [fill in the blank].

Hell, I've seen Glengarry Glenn Ross many too many times to mention.

This is exactly right. Also, this index is hardly a representation of “card” values. It is basically a measure of Ruth and 1950s baseball card values. There are sectors of the card market, such as 19th century cards, that did poorly over this period.

[Snapolit1]

Statistics can tell any story you want them to. Period.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Statistics can tell any story you want them to. Period.

What's the saying, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. As I mentioned, you start those charts in 2009 not 2008 and you get dramatically worse results even for the "elite" cards.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Statistics can tell any story you want them to. Period.

^^This^^ Plus the fact even the chart shows the prices falling like a rock.

[packs]

Does PWCC have stock? It's not clear what he's trying to show with that graph. Unless you have a card, what good is it?

[frankbmd]

He needs to add a line to the graph reflecting PWCC net worth.

[53Browns]

Coffee is for closers!!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by 53Browns

Coffee is for closers!!

Get them to sign on the line that is dotted . . . . .

[ValKehl]

As the adage goes, "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."

[silvor]

Misleading numbers...

I believe I said this in another thread, but the return on the
S&P WITH DIVIDENDS in this time frame is ~143%.

1) why pick 2008 - at the start of the market crash?

2) Most people reinvest their dividends, and why wouldn't you include that data? It's like buying a rental for 100k and selling it for 200k. You "made" 100k, plus rent. PWCC isn't including the rent.

3) how can we buy those 500 cards? We can't in reality. A few yes, but not all 500 in those grades.

Which I think is the point...collectible futures, ETF's or mutual funds coming your way. Makes sense since we have futures that track a currency that really doesn't exist.

[packs]

But why would the futures of these cards be important to the average consignor? That's what confuses me about the graph or the need for the information. If you have one of these cards you're more than aware of what they're doing.

[swarmee]

Just like the high end for the grade designation, it's just another way of advertising.

[Snapolit1]

Wonder why they felt the need to do this. Seems to me their auctions are way down quality wise of what they used to be even a year ago, but my interests are narrow. Very dramatic drop off in the quality and frequency of the "HE" prewar stuff I collect.

[kailes2872]

I also looked at the consignment costs. When you are looking at an $80 card that is $10 plus 10% (IIRC), that is $18 or 22.5%.

Not only are we not reinvesting dividends. Not only are we going to the worst possible moment to the market for point of comparison and not only are we looking at a non-sustainable run up through price manipulation that is responsible for the majority of the delta (and is showing that it is on the way back down) - and outside of the top 100 it is a wash - we don’t take into account the 20% juice off of the top that is no where close in the equities market.

I’ll stick to collecting for fun and investing in the market for wealth generation.

[Johnny630]

Well said Kevin. The crash is just staring. Such frauds

[btcarfagno]

It may be an attempt to get more whales into the hobby and thus an injection of fresh cash thus increasing values and PWCC's bottom line through increased commissions.

Or am I being Captain Obvious here?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I could be wrong, but I don't think those charts are going to impress anyone with any financial sophistication.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I could be wrong, but I don't think those charts are going to impress anyone with any financial sophistication.

Agreed. Nice concept on the surface but kind of ridiculous when you pull back the covers a bit.