Doug Allen and John Rogers Cooperated with the Feds!

[calvindog]

Doug Allen pleaded guilty today in federal court and during his plea it was revealed that both he and John Rogers wore a wire for the feds in an effort to ensnare others in criminal activities. Doug, being Doug, double-crossed the government and tipped off Rogers as to his status, thus tipping him off to the search on his home; Rogers, being Rogers, double-crossed his friend and ratted him out to the feds, making numerous incriminating tapes with Doug clearly obstructing justice. Doug will be going to prison for a long while.

I've been doing this for 24 years and I don't know of anyone as stupid or dishonest as Doug Allen. Rogers and Mastro are certainly a close second.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...811-story.html

[bobbyw8469]

I don't get it. There is so much money to be made just legally running an auction house. They get the consignor for 10-15% and the buyer for 15-20%. Why the need to be greedy?

[uniship]

I remember about 6 or 7 years ago talking to Doug Allen on the phone and he happened to be driving with some really cool historical Mickey Mantle ball that had just been consigned to him. He was telling me about the ball and its history, and I thought to myself "this guy has the greatest job in the world". Now he's facing 10-12 years in prison. un-freaking-believable.

[CW]

...

[ullmandds]

Unreal!

[Orioles1954]

I was a juror on a federal trial in my early 20s and while I had no problem sending several crooks to jail, I also felt incredibly sympathetic for their children (not so much their wives) who thought their dads were honest people.

[autograf]

Hard to tell what Doug's wife or children knew. The family is always collateral damage in situations like this.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't get it. There is so much money to be made just legally running an auction house. They get the consignor for 10-15% and the buyer for 15-20%. Why the need to be greedy?

For corrupt people it is never enough. I firmly believe it ceases to be about the money at some point and totally becomes an ego driven behavior. These guys are megalomaniacs and sociopaths. That don't operate under the same thought processes as the bulk of most f the population.

[chernieto]

There may be a very interesting and suspect "seized asset auction " soon . Hopefully without any locks of hair or other oddities.

[calvindog]

I expect greed from people; what I don't expect is obstruction of justice which strikes at the heart of what this free country is about. That crime dwarfs the fraud in my eyes.

[Orioles1954]

.

[Runscott]

Thanks, Jeff.

Regarding some of the other responses...look at me bite my tongue, Leon. It's tough, but I think I can do it for another few days.

[rdwyer]

Too bad Doug isn't going to state prison. He's probably gonna live a comfortable life in Federal prison.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by uniship

I remember about 6 or 7 years ago talking to Doug Allen on the phone and he happened to be driving with some really cool historical Mickey Mantle ball that had just been consigned to him. He was telling me about the ball and its history, and I thought to myself "this guy has the greatest job in the world". Now he's facing 10-12 years in prison. un-freaking-believable.

It does boggle the mind how some people who were sufficiently "successful" can make shipwreck of their own lives.

[slidekellyslide]

I visited the Masto offices in Chicago in 2004...there were literally piles of memorabilia and cards everywhere...I wasn't even sure how they were keeping track of what belonged to whom....I remember thinking what an incredible job that must be. Of course they believed they would never be caught or they believed what they were doing wasn't of interest to federal authorities...I don't know, but how do you throw away a kush job like that?

[tennisguy]

Forgive me if this was already answered, but what is Legendary's future?

[ullmandds]

if one were shilled by legendary...can anything be done at this point?

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I expect greed from people; what I don't expect is obstruction of justice which strikes at the heart of what this free country is about. That crime dwarfs the fraud in my eyes.

Touche on that Jeff...

Ricky Y

[Matt E.]

Will the obstruction of justice by Doug Allen be viewed differently by the judge compared to others who lie?

If I remember correctly wasn't Barry Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice for his testimony in front of the grand jury during the BALCO steroid scandal?
Bonds received two years' probation, 250 hours of community service, a $4,000 fine and a month of monitored home confinement.


Matt E.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I expect greed from people; what I don't expect is obstruction of justice which strikes at the heart of what this free country is about. That crime dwarfs the fraud in my eyes.

-

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I visited the Masto offices in Chicago in 2004...there were literally piles of memorabilia and cards everywhere...I wasn't even sure how they were keeping track of what belonged to whom....I remember thinking what an incredible job that must be. Of course they believed they would never be caught or they believed what they were doing wasn't of interest to federal authorities...I don't know, but how do you throw away a kush job like that?

Do you still think that "streak bat" was the real deal? I have no idea, but I remember having doubts at the time when the principal supporting evidence was a leading interview with a 90 plus year old Tommy Henrich.

[deadballfreaK]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Too bad Doug isn't going to state prison. He's probably gonna live a comfortable life in Federal prison.

He's got enough bucks that he'll be out walking the streets in two years while thousands of poor folks will serve 10 years for lesser offenses.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Matt E.

Will the obstruction of justice by Doug Allen be viewed differently by the judge compared to others who lie?

If I remember correctly wasn't Barry Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice for his testimony in front of the grand jury during the BALCO steroid scandal?
Bonds received two years' probation, 250 hours of community service, a $4,000 fine and a month of monitored home confinement.


Matt E.

I'd think the perceived value of Bonds doing community service was a factor. 250 hours of talks about not doing peds by someone who had been a big deal public figure is meaningful.

I can't think of what anyone in the auction biz could offer. Hundreds of hours of talks about "Don't shill and fake memorabilia and REALLY don't cheat the feds on cooperation" seems a bit less interesting in a general sense.

Steve Birmingham

[brob28]

Originally Posted by Matt E.

Will the obstruction of justice by Doug Allen be viewed differently by the judge compared to others who lie?

If I remember correctly wasn't Barry Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice for his testimony in front of the grand jury during the BALCO steroid scandal?
Bonds received two years' probation, 250 hours of community service, a $4,000 fine and a month of monitored home confinement.


Matt E.

From what I can tell from the article the difference is Bonds never agreed to cooperate with the Feds. Allen agreed to cooperate and then obstructed justice by tipping Allen off. Attorney's: could new charges be filed as a result of this?

[Runscott]

I met Doug and Mark for the first time, in Cleveland last week. The crime subject never came up - just sat around drinking beer and telling stories. Later, some of us tried to figure how this could have happened. Like most in the hobby, if I find someone personable, it's tough to think of them as criminals.

I believe the answer can be found right here on Net54. We had a thread a while back that discussed whether or not it was okay for some of the big dealers to shill their own auctions, to permit shilling, or for us to bid on their items, knowing that they were shilling. If you go back and read that thread, and try to think of things from the perspective of the accused dealers, and then try to think of things from the perspective of those who defended them, as well as their right to bid in their auctions, things should make perfect sense. Doesn't make it right, but there are enough dealers and collectors who think it's okay to 'play the game', to keep 'the game' going. The Feds are the only ones who seem willing to stop it (and guys like Jeff).

[Hankphenom]

Some people are honest and some aren't, simple as that. Depends on what you think is important and how you look at the world and your place in it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I met Doug and Mark for the first time, in Cleveland last week. The crime subject never came up - just sat around drinking beer and telling stories. Later, some of us tried to figure how this could have happened. Like most in the hobby, if I find someone personable, it's tough to think of them as criminals.

I believe the answer can be found right here on Net54. We had a thread a while back that discussed whether or not it was okay for some of the big dealers to shill their own auctions, to permit shilling, or for us to bid on their items, knowing that they were shilling. If you go back and read that thread, and try to think of things from the perspective of the accused dealers, and then try to think of things from the perspective of those who defended them, as well as their right to bid in their auctions, things should make perfect sense. Doesn't make it right, but there are enough dealers and collectors who think it's okay to 'play the game', to keep 'the game' going. The Feds are the only ones who seem willing to stop it (and guys like Jeff).

And where is the answer right here on Net54 for misrepresenting memorabilia and obstructing justice?

[calvindog]

Scott, I agree completely. When the Mastro fraud-related issues first popped up on Net 54 in 2007, the amount of jackass comments either protecting Mastro and Allen, refusing to admit they were defrauded or attempting to rationalize their behavior was nothing short of stunning to me. In addition, anyone who dared to criticize them -- imcluding reporters who simply reported what the Feds were doing in their investigation -- were castigated beyond belief. Mastro backers would twist themselves into pretzels to explain away the fraud, usually because those backers either conspired on crooked auctions with Doug and Bill or just desperately thought they needed Doug and Bill for some future financial purpose. Naturally, what else could Doug or Bill think about their purported "fraud" victims but that they didn't mind being abused. Even after Bill plead guilty and agreed to cooperate he STILL claimed victim status. The reaction of their useful idiot victims surely assisted in creating the delusional state Doug and Bill enjoyed.

All of these arguments from Doug now fall flat -- he actively obstructed justice in a way that rivals fixing a jury. This is no mere lying under oath to save your skin, this is much worse. I have no doubt that the judge in this case will agree with this position. This sort of obstruction doesn't happen every day and it really is shocking. Had Doug not been such an arrogant, entitled thief 90% of his problems wouldn't exist today. But Doug is Doug, just like Bill is Bill and John Rogers is John Rogers. They simply cannot tell the truth and any effort to challenge them is met with an avalanche of attacks -- some even from their hobby friends on Net 54.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And where is the answer right here on Net54 for misrepresenting memorabilia and obstructing justice?

I don't know - I don't have all the answers for you, but I'll keep trying

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't get it. There is so much money to be made just legally running an auction house. They get the consignor for 10-15% and the buyer for 15-20%. Why the need to be greedy?

I hate saying it, but given the three people mentioned, I think you just answered your own question.

[Runscott]

Peter, the above post was done jokingly. My analogy wasn't perfect, and hopefully the ebay dealers we discussed, while clearly misrepresenting items (albeit on a much smaller scale) through doctored scans, etc., won't begin obstructing justice when the chickens come home to roost.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Peter, the above post was done jokingly. My analogy wasn't perfect, and hopefully the ebay dealers we discussed, while clearly misrepresenting items (albeit on a much smaller scale) through doctored scans, etc., won't begin obstructing justice when the chickens come home to roost.

If I understand you correctly Scott I agree that people's attitudes are a contributing factor, and it's disappointing more people don't take a stand and refuse to deal with people engaging in shenanigans and instead rationalize it in various ways (e.g. he never did anything to me), but I think at best it's only a partial explanation for criminal behavior.

[Runscott]

I admittedly am no criminologist, and also have no experience to back my discussion pounts.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[Runscott]

Pount = point

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[Exhibitman]

Obstructing while 'cooperating'; unreal. Nixonian arrogance.

[Runscott]

Guessing it is actually naivete. I cannot imagine trusting John Rogers, but perhaps he is lovable in person.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I understand you correctly Scott I agree that people's attitudes are a contributing factor, and it's disappointing more people don't take a stand and refuse to deal with people engaging in shenanigans and instead rationalize it in various ways (e.g. he never did anything to me), but I think at best it's only a partial explanation for criminal behavior.

I recently overheard my wife, who is a psychologist by profession, talk to another psychologist regarding people such as battered wives and abused girlfriends who stay in circumstances that keep allowing themselves to be victimized and they've conditioned themselves to tolerate injury. Sadly we just learned of one longtime acquaintance who was killed by her boyfriend after a year of documented abuse. They said this type of behavior or disorder can be attributed to what's called "learned helplessness". I think that this same type of behavior is prevalent in the sportscard hobby. Collectors knowingly get fleeced and they seem to tolerate it as long as they get cards for their collection and keep coming back for more.

[Runscott]

Rhys - is he lovable?

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Just reading the article on the opening post reminds me of The Wolf of Wallstreet.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Obstructing while 'cooperating'; unreal. Nixonian arrogance.

Ah yes, the old it's not illegal if I do it defense. Never really caught on--imagine that.

[wonkaticket]

I assume we got this link off Peter Nash's website I'm sure he reported on this first.

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/arti...ed-to-fbi-raid

Classic.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I think that this same type of behavior is prevalent in the sportscard hobby.

Dan, collectors aren't taking the pain because it's a comfort zone and if the crooks left they would feel lost and alone. They are taking it purely to get their stuff, and they will rationalize their behavior until the cows come home.

Pure and simple: there is a rationalization that 'everyone is doing it', and such rationalization causes the auction houses to do it, and causes collectors to accept it.

[bn2cardz]

The PSA 8 Wagner gets a lot of press about being altered... I had no idea about the PSA 6 Plank that is mentioned in the article.

Was this a well known fraud card also and I just missed it or is this a new revelation?

Was the alteration trimming like the Wagner?

We know the owner of the Wagner has said he won't do anything about the Wagner, but now the Plank has come out also could this hurt PSA in the long run that two major cards are now admitted trimmed cards in PSA numbered holders?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Oh, Al Qaeda is running that auction? Well, I didn't know anyone who was in 9-11, and if I don't bid someone else will, and I won't bid any more than I think the card was worth. And thanks for the catalog, Ayman.

[HRBAKER]

The inability of otherwise rational people to deny themselves things they WANT (not need) is what these guys have fed on for years.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Rhys - is he lovable?

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

I love the guy but he is also my brother!

Not sure what it has to do with what's going on w/ John or Doug but I figured I'd answer the question.

[Rich Klein]

It's ALL about the "stuff"

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

The inability of otherwise rational people to deny themselves things they WANT (not need) is what these guys have fed on for years.

Ding Ding Ding.
We have a winner!!!
This is the OCD pathology behind many collectors.
"I want it. I NEED it. I gotta win it. So what if I pay a little more, at least I got the item".

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I love the guy but he is also my brother!

Not sure what it has to do with what's going on w/ John or Doug but I figured I'd answer the question.

Another miscommunication on my part - I was asking Rhys if John was lovable. I know Rhys is lovable

You two were a blast to talk with in Cleveland - thanks for all the great discussions!

[brob28]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

The PSA 8 Wagner gets a lot of press about being altered... I had no idea about the PSA 6 Plank that is mentioned in the article.

Was this a well known fraud card also and I just missed it or is this a new revelation?

Was the alteration trimming like the Wagner?

We know the owner of the Wagner has said he won't do anything about the Wagner, but now the Plank has come out also could this hurt PSA in the long run that two major cards are now admitted trimmed cards in PSA numbered holders?

Andy what article are you referring to that mentions the Plank?