SGC = Who cares about your cards!

[pencil1974]

I sent in 12 items to be graded over the last two weeks. The first batch came back with 6 similar to this one but this is the worst by far. I actually thought they sent me an empty holder at first but then turned it over to see the Babe Ruth strip that I sent them is nicely tucked away in the back.

Come on man! This can't be good for the card. As much as I hate to say it I may have to go back to PSA after this one. So beyond pissed at this point!

[GoCubsGo32]

Yikes!

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Damn. I would be pissed as well.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I hope they step up to the plate quickly on this one....let us know.

[Piratedogcardshows]

That's definitely the worst fitting gasket I have seen.Im sure they will do whatever to fix it and make a satisfied customer out of you.I think after a few months of the specials they have been running they are swamped and rushing a bit.Good luck I hope it's not damaged.

[pencil1974]

Here were some out of the other order. The scratches on the Ruth are under the plastic and now there is a Rub/Dirt mark in the black area of the card that was not there before too.

So you can see where my frustration is mounting. I had emailed Scott a few times and never got an email back on these.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I imagine they will step up to the plate on this one. Please let us know how it is handled.

[4815162342]

If this were PSA and not SGC, there would already be 100 replies and cries for the heads of Joe O. and David H.

[CW]

Yes, I've experienced this also with two different T3 Turkey Red cabinet cards.

I've discussed this with other collectors online and some believe that the cause is not the gasket, but imperfections or warping of the two clear plastic halves (front and back) that make up the slab. I've contacted SGC and they've offered to reholder for free, but who's to say it won't happen again with the same style holder/gasket?

Either way, this should NOT be happening to our cards. Yes, one part of grading is the actual grade and the monetary value that follows, but a BIG part of getting our items encapsulated is protection. When the very steps we take to protect our cards end up actually damaging them, and we're paying for such a service, well... that's completely unacceptable!

I actually have a T3 Turkey Red that I'm almost afraid to look at for fear of knocking it loose from the gasket again. In addition, the only way I'll feel safe having it reholdered is by hand-delivering the card to either SGC or PSA at The National in Cleveland this year (and that's assuming SGC has a new holder in place). So yeah, sometimes the hobby isn't so enjoyable, and that's unfortunate.

[pencil1974]

Why not make the cheap cardboard that holds cards a bit thicker so this can't happen. I'm sure Hobby Lobby or Michaels has the cardboard. Just a thought.

[Blackie]

brad did ya call em yet?

[pencil1974]

I emailed Scott and he just got back to me, wasn't even about the new one that it was about the 6 I had mentioned before and showed a few.

He said send them back and they would take care of them and also grade a few cards for free but I have no new cards I care to grade as what I sent in were the cards I wanted graded. lol.

[Blackie]

Oh my ...........man I hope they make it right for ya brother. The also need to check those cards that slid and pay for any damage to those cards moving in the holder, if in fact they were damaged at all in them. Keep us posted Brad and best of luck on getting this resolved brother.

[pencil1974]

I will let you know for sure. I have to get a box and repackage and pay for shipping to them. So I'm going to be out a bit of money as all told its over a grand that I have send back and insure (again).

[atx840]

First submission about 15 were out, most tapped back in but a few needed reholdering which they did @ the National.

[joeadcock]

Chris

Thats wild

[pencil1974]

Hopefully no damage was done to your cards.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by atx840

most tapped back in

its kind of like one of those kid toys with the little silver ball and you have to tilt it around and get the ball to land in the hole......except, you know, with a T206 Cobb as the silver ball....

[EvilKing00]

ugh that's awful, I think there should be some sort of refund

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

If this were PSA and not SGC, there would already be 100 replies and cries for the heads of Joe O. and David H.

Exactly this.....Well said Daryl.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by conor912

its kind of like one of those kid toys with the little silver ball

I was never good at that game

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

If this were PSA and not SGC, there would already be 100 replies and cries for the heads of Joe O. and David H.

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Exactly this.....Well said Daryl.

You'e right, Kevin, I'll give you that. Daryl absolutley nailed it.

But what either of you fail to see or mention is that there are no SGC apologists. If SGC screws up, everyone can admit it (whether they post it or not). I'll admit it, SGC screwed this one up big time. Here's the difference though. When SGC screws up, even SGC loyalists can admit it. When PSA screws up, all the apologists come out of the woodwork to defend them.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

If this were PSA and not SGC, there would already be 100 replies and cries for the heads of Joe O. and David H.

I would agree with this.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I would agree with this.

You guys remind me of the racism debate. Generally speaking I feel racism is perpetuated by the very people denouncing it.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

You guys remind me of the racism debate. Generally speaking I feel racism is perpetuated by the very people denouncing it.

That sounds racist

[Leon]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

That sounds racist

No, just stating how I often feel. The people talking the most about things often times perpetuate what they are trying to eradicate. And I think as a society we are too politically correct, but this might be for another thread.

SGC made a mistake on those holders. They should fix them and compensate if damage was done to the cards because of their holders. I wouldn't be happy to have to deal with it but if you get cards graded it can happen. It's happened to me. I usually just tap them back into place.....but if it were bad I guess I might get it re-holdered....

[pencil1974]

I guess I could if it were just one strip card but its an uncut Ruth panel. Plus I think it is completely stuck into the side of the holder.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

I guess I could if it were just one strip card but its an uncut Ruth panel. Plus I think it is completely stuck into the side of the holder.

Sorry to hear that. I probably wouldn't chance it. I only tap "so" hard as to not bang the card up.......sounds like a re-holder....they should work with you on compensating you for any shipping etc.....

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

No, just stating how I often feel. The people talking the most about things often times perpetuate what they are trying to eradicate. And I think as a society we are too politically correct, but this might be for another thread.

I was kidding.

[h2oya311]

That's horrible Brad.

I won't apologize for SGC although I consider myself loyal to them. This certainly won't win them any fans. They've sent at least one or two cards per submission back to me without a grade even though I put in BOLD letters that I am okay with a grade of Authentic. I have spent way too much on shipping to justify using them when I have to submit a card three times to get what I want.

I'd rather they take the care and time to do it right the first time than to meet some silly 10-day or 20-day self-imposed deadline. It's like the Dominos delivery promise of 30 minutes. They had to scratch that from their marketing materials because there were too many car accidents resulting from rushing door-to-door.

I would be pissed about all of those coming to my door like that!!

[Bosox Blair]

Brad,

Definitely upsetting regarding those holders. But to me, there are a couple things going on here.

One is that people should be informed that the holders are not always great, and cards can be at risk inside these holders. Mission accomplished through your cautionary tale and the others shared in this thread. It is a fair criticism, I think, that these holders could stand some major improvement. And that includes the awful oversized SGC holders that all-too-often split apart at the seams. (FWIW, when PSA uses the terrible oversized "window" within the holder, cards can also move around and be damaged inside that holder too.)

Second, is a distinct issue - how did SGC deal with the problem in your case? Personally, before I'd go on blast on an internet forum about how a company doesn't "care", I'd have to be really unhappy with the response - not just with a problem that arose.

If point #1 was all you wanted to convey, I think it would have been more appropriate to call your thread something more like "A warning about SGC holders", rather than the overly-dramatic SGC doesn't care message.

Just one opinion.

Cheers,
Blair

[steve B]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

It's like the Dominos delivery promise of 30 minutes. They had to scratch that from their marketing materials because there were too many car accidents resulting from rushing door-to-door.

Yeah, if this stuff is happening from rushing they need to stop rushing. The holders do really need some changes, at the minimum a thicker gasket. If the bigger holders warp during sealing it's really time for a major change.

A bit OT, but that wasn't completely the reason the 30 minute guarantee was cancelled. It was the bad PR caused by a few incidents with people that just didn't get it. Maybe 10-20 incidents out of thousands of drivers.

The delivery time guarantee was totally a marketing thing. The cost was written off as an advertising expense so nobody - Not the stores, not the drivers, nobody was out anything.

A friend of mine worked for them while they had that policy and was never rushed by his manager. In fact, he told me that if things were slow the pizza was more likely to be late. The drivers made minimum plus tips and used their own cars. On a slow night there would be a lot less in tips. So a few Pizzas would be "late" but still actually hot. which made no sense to me until he told me that everyone assumed the driver was charged. So if things were really slow the drivers would show up and say something like " darn, 31 minutes your pizza is free. " Hardly anyone actually kept track of the time, and of course they're already standing there with the cash plus tip. Most of the time they'd feel bad and simply give him the whole amount anyway, or at least a good portion of it. All written off as advertising.

Steve B

[calvindog]

I was a Dominos man during that 30 minute delivery era I agree, the manager wouldn't dare tell us to race to beat the 30 minute deadline.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I was a Dominos man during that 30 minute delivery era I agree, the manager wouldn't dare tell us to race to beat the 30 minute deadline.

Why would you quit a dream job at Domino's?

[martyp]

A few years back I was willing to try to assist SGC with their holder problems since I had T206, 1954 Topps T3 and other cards slide. Using my manufacturing background, I asked about their incoming inspection. I found that it consisted of unloading the truck, and maybe counting the boxes. I suggested that based on the measuring that I did, I felt that the plastic was warped. I suggested to Derek Grady that they talked to their vendor and asked them for help to solve the problem. I was told two things. #1 - If the problem is affecting less than 10% of their product, he did not think it was that big of a deal. #2 - If they approached their vendor, he was afraid that their vendor would no longer sell to them.

I work under the philosophy that if there is a problem that you either do not know or do not care. SGC has known of the problem for several years.

[JollyRoger]

I have been receiving a few SGC "tappers" lately as well.

[conor912]

I want to hear more Dominoes stories.....they're way more interesting than this thread.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by martyp

A few years back I was willing to try to assist SGC with their holder problems since I had T206, 1954 Topps T3 and other cards slide. Using my manufacturing background, I asked about their incoming inspection. I found that it consisted of unloading the truck, and maybe counting the boxes. I suggested that based on the measuring that I did, I felt that the plastic was warped. I suggested to Derek Grady that they talked to their vendor and asked them for help to solve the problem. I was told two things. #1 - If the problem is affecting less than 10% of their product, he did not think it was that big of a deal. #2 - If they approached their vendor, he was afraid that their vendor would no longer sell to them.

I work under the philosophy that if there is a problem that you either do not know or do not care. SGC has known of the problem for several years.

Derek Grady sounds like an intelligent, hard working guy. In Bizarro World.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by conor912

I want to hear more Dominoes stories.....they're way more interesting than this thread.

Best job of my life. Seriously.

[turtleguy64]

guess Bill Mastro was lucky not to have had a pizza delivered to his house by you.

[h2oya311]

I'm happy to have learned a few things in this thread.

The most important was that I was grossly misinformed about the reason for Domino's 30- minute policy cancellation.

Referring to another post/thread about the future of TPGs, I honestly worry about the sustainability of SGC with issues like these, the missed opportunity of set registry mania, and their underwhelming website. I doubt they are in bed w/ the dealers as much as PSA, which at least gives me hope that they can be viable as the slightly more credible/accurate grader. I can usually trust the grade assigned by SGC, for what it's worth.

For Derek G to dismiss the plastic warping issue puts a ding in the image I had of SGCs integrity and my perception of them as the superior product.

[AndyG09]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

For Derek G to dismiss the plastic warping issue puts a ding in the image I had of SGCs integrity and my perception of them as the superior product.

Derek Grady hasn't worked at SGC for a few years now.

Best,

Andy

[pencil1974]

Blair,

If your cards come back this way at some point and you want to start a thread with a less "dramatic" headline. Feel free.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by AndyG09

Derek Grady hasn't worked at SGC for a few years now.

Best,

Andy

And yet, it looks like his successor neglected the plastic supplier issue as well. That's too bad.

Despite this bad press, I'll still be a sucker and submit most of my items to SGC. This hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm sure it won't be long...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by conor912

I want to hear more Dominoes stories.....they're way more interesting than this thread.

My very first job ever was at Dominos when I was a junior in high school. I was too young to be a driver, but I did work inside and knew all the inner workings of the operation. My stories are just the opposite. If a delivery driver missed their 30 minute time window, they were held accountable. I disagree with Steve that the loss was just written off as advertising. This was a franchise store, not a comapny store and maybe that made a difference, but it defintely wasn't written off as advertising. Twenty seven years later, I still remain friends with one of the employees from that store who went on to open a few franchises of his own.

[Sean1125]

My first job was at Dominoes.

Let's all hop on the Pizza Train.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My very first job ever was at Dominos when I was a junior in high school. I was too young to be a driver, but I did work inside and knew all the inner workings of the operation. My stories are just the opposite. If a delivery driver missed their 30 minute time window, they were held accountable. I disagree with Steve that the loss was just written off as advertising. This was a franchise store, not a comapny store and maybe that made a difference, but it defintely wasn't written off as advertising. Twenty seven years later, I still remain friends with one of the employees from that store who went on to open a few franchises of his own.

Interesting. It could be a franchise/corporate difference. I'm not sure which of those the one my friend worked for.

In about a year and a half he worked for three different chains, all within about a half mile of each other. Dominos, Pizza Hut, and I forget what the other one was. All of them had delivery guarantees, and all handled it the same way.
He moved between them because there was a driver shortage and every move added about .25 an hour to his pay. Not bad in the mid 80's.
Pizza hut to dominos to ? to pizza hut. Pizza hut also let him have leftover pizza at closing. There was usually at least one that got called in for pickup and the people never showed. Saturday nights we'd show up about a half hour after closing and get free Pizza.
I also got one of those massive double decker pizzas they did for a while for free by eating the whole thing. The local prep school would have new kids try as hazing and the manager had never seen it done. Which made him hate the whole thing. I had to promise I'd do all the cleanup in addition to paying if I couldn't do it.

Steve B

[4815162342]

I had a Domino Rally Ghost Ride set when I was a kid, does that count?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by martyp

A few years back I was willing to try to assist SGC with their holder problems since I had T206, 1954 Topps T3 and other cards slide. Using my manufacturing background, I asked about their incoming inspection. I found that it consisted of unloading the truck, and maybe counting the boxes. I suggested that based on the measuring that I did, I felt that the plastic was warped. I suggested to Derek Grady that they talked to their vendor and asked them for help to solve the problem. I was told two things. #1 - If the problem is affecting less than 10% of their product, he did not think it was that big of a deal. #2 - If they approached their vendor, he was afraid that their vendor would no longer sell to them.

I work under the philosophy that if there is a problem that you either do not know or do not care. SGC has known of the problem for several years.

They probably made the mistake of having the supplier make and own the molds. Typically a customer wants to own the mold so they can simply go to another supplier if there's a problem.

Fixing it might require new molds, and that's expensive.
Or the supplier might be running too fast causing the warp.

I've never seen a 10% scrap rate be acceptable for a mechanical part. (ICs yes, but the wafer holds a lot and gets cut up so the delivered ones are ok)
It might be ok if they're using the customary 10% overshipment allowance.
Since there's some QC, and maybe some extra material they want to use before shutting down the machine a lot of places have a cushion in the contract. So if you order 1000, they can ship and charge for up to 1100.
In practice I've hardly ever had extra machined parts shipped, but did have about a 5-7% overage on some custom drawn tubing.

If it was me I'd be talking to the supplier about the lack of quality.

Steve B

[martyp]

Steve, it could also be the percentage of regrind or the temp or cooling cycle of the mold. I was going to give them some ideas to measure for quality. I suggested that they just ask the vendor for input or ideas.

The 10% issue was that he was not interested unless 10% of the cards in the SGC holders were slipping.