AROD May Be Banned from Baseball?!?!

[ullmandds]

"That'd be making a statement!"

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/2...biogenesis-mlb

[Seattle799]

Tough call... As much as I'd love to see A-Rod banned for life, I kinda want the Yanks to have to eat his contract for six(?) more years

[bcornell]

We need a Mitchell Report for the hobby.

[ctownboy]

Good.

How many times can a player use steroids or other PED's, deny it, lie about it, get away with it and then continue to do it while wiping everybody noses in it?

A Rod signed his big contract with the Rangers and, over the years, was asked NUMEROUS times about steroid use and abuse. Every time he denied he was a user.

A Rod opted out of his big dollar, long term deal to sign an even bigger dollar long term deal. Only AFTER signing this deal (which had NO language in it about steroid use and voidance of the contract) did A Rod admit that, yes, he did use steroids. But, only AFTER he signed the first big contact and before the MLB steroid policy was put into place in 2004.

I say, if if MLB has the goods on A Rod and he wants to fight the process, then MLB SHOULD ban A Rod.

This will punish him for past transgressions (which are most likely MORE than one) while also sending a message to other players that using, cheating, lying and being smug about it will not be tolerated.

David

[Mrvintage]

I would LOVE to see Arod get the lifetime ban. That could be just what baseball needs to send a message to the rest of the league. My guess is he will make a deal with MLB and "retire".

[nolemmings]

Sorry, it ain't happenin.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Sorry, it ain't happenin.

And why not?

What makes you so sure....

I'm calling lifetime ban for sure....

Not like he can play anymore anyway

[Brian Van Horn]

I will believe it when I see it.

[barrysloate]

His career is pretty much over anyway, he doesn't have very much gas left in the tank. And he won't get into the HOF because of his steroid use. The only thing he will lose is money. Given how arrogant he has been I won't be shedding even a single tear if he receives a lifetime ban. And I used to love to watch him play when he was still a great player. No sympathy at all.

[ullmandds]

I agree with you 100%, Barry. Even if he gets a large suspension...ie. 150+ games his career will most likely be over...although based on his historical arrogance I just don't see him just disappearing into the night?!?!

[barrysloate]

Actually Peter, even if he came back today and played out the season I think his career is pretty much over. He might be a .230 hitter with limited power and run production. The Yankees can bring someone up from AAA who can do that. Zoilo Almonte is likely to finish the season stronger than A-Rod would. I say he's done.

[AddieJoss]

If he is banned for life, we don't have to deal with any HOF talk at any point.

[kengoldin]

Originally Posted by bcornell

We need a Mitchell Report for the hobby.

If he is banned for life, it is same as suspended without pay
Yankees would owe him zero

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

If he is banned for life, it is same as suspended without pay
Yankees would owe him zero

and he wouldn't get to play in old-timers games.

[conor912]

From a skill point of view, why would it even matter? Now that he's not juicing he's not nearly the threat he once was. As much as I hate the Yankees, they (and the rest of baseball) would be better off without him.

[ScottFandango]

dude doesn't give a hoot about playing baseball...

he was BENCHED in the PLAYOFFS and he spent the time flirting with a hot fan and tried to get her phone number....

he knows (ASSUMES) he will just keep cashing $25 million ever year for doing SQUAT...

guess what Batman, hes got another thing coming to him!

him and Pete can have lunch together and discuss baseball.....

[tcdyess]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

dude doesn't give a hoot about playing baseball...

he was BENCHED in the PLAYOFFS and he spent the time flirting with a hot fan and tried to get her phone number....

he knows (ASSUMES) he will just keep cashing $25 million ever year for doing SQUAT...

guess what Batman, hes got another thing coming to him!

him and Pete can have lunch together and discuss baseball.....

Totally agreed, this has nothing to do with baseball, if he is not banned he will ride the pine for his $100m due to him over the next 5 years. He is trying to make any deal he can to ensure he is not banned and can continue to collect. As a Yankee fan, this contract is going to keep the Yankees from competing on the level we are used to over the last 15 years for years to come. I hope the rest of the MLB teams learn from this tragedy and stop giving these huge dollar long term contracts that end when the players are undoubtedly going to be a shadow of what they were in their prime.

By the way, if I'm the Yankees right now I am selling every piece (Cano included) to bring in some fresh young talent. It's time to cut costs and rebuild with a new plan.

All for the lifetime ban.

Must say the reports of Tony Bosch probing A-ROID's arm for a vein are comical. As a nurse, i can say this is Medicine 101. Might want to check your doctors credentials if he can't find a vein in a healthy full grown male athlete.

Rodriguez's claims, that he only took steroids in Texas to deal with the pressures of a new contract were ridiculous. I can think of no better way to relieve the pressure than to move to the largest market in baseball with an even larger contract. He's a narcissist and habitual liar; those are the nicest things I have to say about him.

Quite honestly, the Yankees got what they deserved, and hope they get stuck with $98 million owed.

[iwantitiwinit]

Good riddance. Simply stated he is a cancer. If he actually induced or introduced other players to the clinic I wonder if he could technically be charged as a drug pusher/distributor. That would be something.

[Fred]

Due process....


I couldn't care less if A-Rod's banned for life, however in our great democracy we owe him due process before banning him for life....

[nolemmings]

He's got no prior discipline for PEDs. It is more than a stretch to stack whatever they think they have as separate offenses and claim it's sufficient to give him a lifetime ban, and it would set horrible precedent for the Union; thus neither AROD nor the MLBPA would go down without a huge fight.

I suppose they could invoke some other "best interests of the game" clause if they think there was sufficient evidence of cover-up or tampering with evidence/ interfering with the investigation, etc. That too seems to me a stretch, and would also likely be appealed vigorously.

My guess is he'll be suspended through 2014. I doubt he will agree to anything, at least until that much is done and he's haggling to have it reduced.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by Fred

Due process....


I couldn't care less if A-Rod's banned for life, however in our great democracy we owe him due process before banning him for life....

Totally disagree. This is baseball not a court of law... Totally 2 different things

[Sean]

I agree with Scott: Due Process and Presumption of Innocence are important concepts in the judicial system, but only there. We can form our opinions of Arod based on whatever criteria we choose.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Good.

How many times can a player use steroids or other PED's, deny it, lie about it, get away with it and then continue to do it while wiping everybody noses in it?

A Rod signed his big contract with the Rangers and, over the years, was asked NUMEROUS times about steroid use and abuse. Every time he denied he was a user.

A Rod opted out of his big dollar, long term deal to sign an even bigger dollar long term deal. Only AFTER signing this deal (which had NO language in it about steroid use and voidance of the contract) did A Rod admit that, yes, he did use steroids. But, only AFTER he signed the first big contact and before the MLB steroid policy was put into place in 2004.

I say, if if MLB has the goods on A Rod and he wants to fight the process, then MLB SHOULD ban A Rod.

This will punish him for past transgressions (which are most likely MORE than one) while also sending a message to other players that using, cheating, lying and being smug about it will not be tolerated.

David

And on the other hand...

I Think they should have Doctor's & Nurse's waiting for them at the end of the tunnel Freely Injecting any & All Takers...

I want to see 800 ft Home Run's and Pitcher's Lasting Double Header's... Just Like "Big Ed" Walsh did Back in the Day!

If they want to do this stuff.. Then Let'em... They will cheat anyway... & that my Fellow Baseball Fans is just what is gonna continue to happen!

"Line'em uP, Knock'em Out or Sit'em Down"

Come on now... wouldn't Like to see 110 mile an hour fast ball? Or even a 5 foot hanging curve ball?

Maybe Pfizer's Name would even be a the Ball instead of Rawlings!

Didn't Our President say that we needed "Change"... Now that's a change I can live with... their gonna do it anyway....

JMHO

a little voice from the Stan...

[TUM301]

Retire, no way, banned doubt it, play again 50/50.

[TistaT202]

As a Yankee fan, and a baseball fan, I hope he never plays again...not sure if that will be a result of a lifetime ban or simply because he physically cannot stay healthy (esp. without the juice).

Mike

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by TistaT202

As a Yankee fan, and a baseball fan, I hope he never plays again...not sure if that will be a result of a lifetime ban or simply because he physically cannot stay healthy (esp. without the juice).

Mike

its amazing how many Yankee fans DONT WANT THIS GUY...

that is VERY TELLING....usually at least, you get the hometown support...

[HOF Auto Rookies]

I have a firm/strong belief that ARod, nor any other players 'implicated' in this will get suspended etc.

I am working on typing my reasoning, so please give me time

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

I have a firm/strong belief that ARod, nor any other players 'implicated' in this will get suspended etc.

I am working on typing my reasoning, so please give me time

ummm where have you been the last few days....

a guy named Braun got the ax already....

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

ummm where have you been the last few days....

a guy named Braun got the ax already....

Other than Braun, sorry I didn't make it clear. I was implying outside of him, my oops

[brob28]

What I would really like too see is all records of those caught using PED's wiped out from the record books, banned from the HOF and any awards retracted. Most of these guys have enough money to be secure financially, but the shame and ego hit of losing their place in history would sting.
I'd also like to get to a point where all contracts can be voided and past income "clawed back" if a player is caugh using PED's as well. The only way to really stop abuse is to make the penalty so harsh it's not worth the potential loss.

[earlywynnfan]

While I wholeheartedly agree with dropping the hammer on these guys, I don't think the general baseball public cares.

Did anyone see the hero's welcome LA gave Manny?
Does anyone ask David Ortiz if he's still looking for whoever spiked his vitamins?
Did anyone even ask Pudge Rodriguez why/how he came to spring training a few years ago at half the size he was a year before?

AROD, Bonds, and Clemens are fun to hate. But for the most part, apathy rules.

Ken

[EvilKing00]

I don't see how he can get banned for life for PED use. Hes never tested positive. 1 failed test gets 50 games, a second gets 100 games.

Im sure they have a lot on him, maybe signed canceled checks, or order forms etc, maybe even cought on camera. So, like braun he should take a deal.

MLB prob wanted 100 games from braun, and they settled for 65 with no fight.

When suspended the player DOSNT get paid for the time hes on suspension. Do you think arod is going to walk away from 120million left on his deal? he will be back when if the question. Should take a deal now and come back when its over & collect his money.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

I don't see how he can get banned for life for PED use. Hes never tested positive. 1 failed test gets 50 games, a second gets 100 games.

Im sure they have a lot on him, maybe signed canceled checks, or order forms etc, maybe even cought on camera. So, like braun he should take a deal.

MLB prob wanted 100 games from braun, and they settled for 65 with no fight.

When suspended the player DOSNT get paid for the time hes on suspension. Do you think arod is going to walk away from 120million left on his deal? he will be back when if the question. Should take a deal now and come back when its over & collect his money.

Arod will not have a choice in the matter....

he is nailed and MLB will do with him what they please....

LIFETIME BAN (supported by and favored by the Yankees Front Office)

Brian cashman HATES THIS GUY!

[yanks12025]

He's gonna play this weekend so not sure why people vote for him not playing. Even if he gets banned for life he's going to appeal the decision, so he'll be able to play while appealing. They already said appeal decisions won't be till months/next season.

[autograf]

They more or less said that about Braun too..........if Arod can avoid banishment and come to some deal, I see him doing it THIS year since he's not in the best physical shape and he'll have to play into that. Just my opinion.......not entirely sure he has much mojo left though and he'll be a wallflower come HOF time with Sosa, Palmeiro, McGwire, Bonds, et al......

[Sean]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

its amazing how many Yankee fans DONT WANT THIS GUY...

that is VERY TELLING....usually at least, you get the hometown support...

Great point. On another thread we have Bill ready to lay down his life for Ryan Braun, but no Yankee fans will defend ARod. They hate him more than the rest of us do.

PS- Bill, no offense. I don't agree with your defense of Braun but I respect you for trying.

[conor912]

Despite my previous comment, I think it's pretty hard to justify banning when he's never even been suspended once. What kind of message does THAT send?

[Deertick]

I heard that Arod took out an 'end of career' insurance policy that guaranteed him the value of his contract.

Why would someone do that? It is a guaranteed contract. Even if he cuts a leg off, the Yanks have to pay. Unless he was betting the come on getting banned....

[Sean]

Jim, interesting terminology. And if you are correct about that policy, that would be very revealing.

[iwantitiwinit]

I just bet a guy at work $200 he gets more than 100 games (pre-appeal), watcha think?

[drmondobueno]

A-Fraud has too much money and too many attorneys. He will find a way to get what he wants.

Maybe if the fans pelt him with specimen cups.... he will go away

[ctownboy]

No, A Rod hasn't failed a drug test but he HAS admitted to prior steroid or PED use (after lying about it or not saying anything for years when he was asked about it).

Also, if you read the article on Fangraphs concerning Ryan Braun's suspension, it was said that a player who hasn't failed a drug test but who is caught in this type of scheme/scandal isn't necessarily tied to the 50/100/permanent ban penalties. It was said this could/would fall under a different set of infractions where those rules might not apply. That is why there are reports that A Rod could be suspended 150 games. That is also why the head of the Players Association said that players found guilty and who lose their appeal could be suspended 5 games or 500 games.

In this situation, it is up to the Commissioner to set the punishment for the crime.

If Selig has the goods on A Rod (and the Yankees want him gone as much as most fans seem to want him gone) and he wants to set an example then banning A Rod for life is a possibility. He would then join the Black Sox players and Pete Rose as examples.......

David

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by conor912

Despite my previous comment, I think it's pretty hard to justify banning when he's never even been suspended once. What kind of message does THAT send?

a GREAT MESSAGE!

if MLB gets rid of the once PRINCE OF BASEBALL, then anyone can go...

this should scare the rest of the players straight!

[HOF Auto Rookies]

According to the JDA (Joint Drug Agreement),

‘A Player may be subjected to disciplinary action for just cause by the Commissioner for any Player violation of Section 2 above not referenced in Section 7.A through 7.F above.’

So, the issue with this is what and how do they define ‘just cause.’ Is it the reports, biogenesis etc. Do they trust the word of Bosch?
The JDA provides two means only for suspensions: positive drug tests and reasonable cause. The tests can be scheduled, random, or based on ‘reasonable cause.’

Section 3 paragraph C,

‘In the event that either Party has information that gives it reasonable cause to believe that a Player has, in the previous 12-month period, engaged in the use, possession, sale or distribution of a Performance Enhancing Substance (including hGH) or Stimulant, the Party shall provide the other Party, either orally or in writing, with a description of its information (“Reasonable Cause Notification”), and the Player will be subject to an immediate urine and/or blood specimen collection, or a program of testing, as determined by the IPA, to commence no later than 48 hours after the Reasonable Cause Notification was provided.’

To date, baseball has only suspended players for positive tests (until Braun). Now, they CAN, under the JDA, suspend players for participating in the sale or distribution of a prohibited substance (Sec. 7, paragraph E-F). The issue with this is that they are statements form Bosch, whether or not they believe is sufficiently substantiated, I don’t know. If any suspensions were to happen, the player’s union would argue that you can’t go jump from a 50-game suspension to 100-games.

MLB could have tested these players on a ‘reasonable cause’ basis up to 48 hours after they got the report in January.

If the Yankees try to void A-Rod’s contract, you look into the Uniform Player Contract.

Termination, By the Club, 7.(b) ‘The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player at any time shall: (1) fail, refuse or neglect to conform his personal conduct to the standards of good citizenship and good sportsmanship or to keep himself in first-class physical condition or to obey the Club’s training rules; or (2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team.’

Any attempt to void a contract will most likely result in a grievance filed and potential lawsuits. If a player is suspended, they can file civil lawsuits with Bosch and Biogenesis for defamation. The Players could say that they have been falsely portrayed in engaging in unlawful behavior which harmed their reputation. Breach of confidentiality agreements is another. If they had agreement with Bosch and Biogenesis to keep information confidential even upon the threat of a lawsuit. Plus, A-Rod’s contract is fully guaranteed, it simply cannot be voided unless it has some type of moral clause or other clauses with specific references to steroids or PED’s.

The league is run by a CBA, and in the CBA there is not instruction stating a players’ contract can be voided per JDA. An exception is the ‘best interests of the game’ clause.

CBA: Article XII – Discipline – B (Conduct Detrimental or Prejudicial to Baseball):

‘Players may be disciplined for just cause for conduct that is materially detrimental or materially prejudicial to the best interests of Baseball including, but not limited to, engaging in conduct in violation of federal, state or local law. The Commissioner and a Club shall not discipline a Player for the same act or conduct under this provision. In cases of this type, a Club may discipline a Player, or take other adverse action against him, when the Commissioner defers the disciplinary decision to the Club.’

Now, teams do not have to pay a player if the player is unable to play due to being injured or disabled as a result of their drug abuse, but in A-Rod’s case, his hip surgeries were warranted. Teams are also able to withhold salary if a player is unable to play due to legal proceedings or jail time cause by violation of the drug policy. The Yankees can try to get a doctor stating that his hip was caused by steroid use or other use of PED’s on the banned list.

MLB will try to get 100-game bans for the players based on one, the doping itself, and two, lying about it. Remember, this is how well you can trust Bosch, who is trying to save his own face. MLB has more to lose than to gain with this, because all of these suspensions wouldn’t be from failed drugs tests, but the credibility of Bosch.




WHEW. Now, I can write pages and pages and more on this topic, it's so complicated, yet unknown. This is my take on it from having read the CBA and JDA. As far as my earlier statement in regards to suspensions, based off of looking into this more, I can see them in being justified, just not the 100-games or lifetime ban.

Cheers,

Brent

[BigJJ]

The Head of the Players Union and the Commissioner put in place a system that did not enforce the rules.

In order to compete with the guys who were taking prohibited substances, others started to take such substances.

Most players have 5-15 years to make the vast amount of money their family will need to live on for years. It was unfair to the players, to put them in a position where many felt they needed to endanger themselves, to earn money for their families.

Every time they hand out a sentence for the pre-2005 prohibited substance crew, I think - What about the guys who put the inadequate enforcement policy in place? They ought to be punished. Think of the tens of thousands of kids trying to make it pre-2005, who felt they had to endanger themselves to compete for their families.

I am not talking about the current players who are under a new and improved system. I consider them at fault in whole.

But Arod had to compete at that time against all of baseball's substance users.

And we all knew, didn't we? How could the Yankees not have known? How could MLB not have known?

The Union was not protecting its players by having them compete as to who could take more substances and get away with it. They did a miserable job of protecting the health of their players. Worst union handling I have ever seen.

And horrible job by the Commissioner's office in this regard.

If Arod pays a price, shouldn't they?

The Commisioner and Former Head of the Union have not paid a price have they?

But we have already lost many young players to cancer and shortened lives as a result. Even Arod may have irreparably injured his body. And he was an effective competitor - before everyone around him started getting very large.

Where is the true justice?

[rdwyer]

I still like the old fashioned way. Floozies and booze.

[ScottFandango]

He says he is ready to play, but do the Yanks want him?

I think they will say he is unhealthy and can't play....they are buying their time until his suspension is announced...

Remember, baseball is playing by THEIR OWN RULES now (see Braun's 65 game/rest of the year suspension). This is not 50 nor 100 nor 150 games....

they made up their own rules for this and they will do the same for Aroid= lifetime ban

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

a GREAT MESSAGE!

if MLB gets rid of the once PRINCE OF BASEBALL, then anyone can go...

this should scare the rest of the players straight!

I disagree. MLB layed out a process and should follow that process. Banning him without ever have suspended him just to deter other guys from using is like handing out the death penalty for a misdemeanor in hopes that it will curb misdemeanors when in fact it will just create a whole lot of death penalties. Maybe that's not the best analogy, but you get my point.

Edited to add that I dislike him as much if not more than anyone and am not taking his side.

[Jcfowler6]

How can A-Rod fight the facts. He isn't going easy. Here's a link to an article I read.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...nsion/2579977/