Toploaders?

[phillyfan24]

Are there any that are considered the best to use? I see a lot of them out there. Thank you, Jamie

[the 'stache]

I always use Ultra Pro top loaders, penny sleeves, one touches, team bags and graded card bags. I just trust them.

[the 'stache]

Come to think of it, when I start doing my sets, I'll be using Ultra Pro padded binders and platinum series 9 card sleeves.

I've always been very pleased with their quality.

[RobertGT]

Top loaders (all brands) are no longer the industry standard. They still allow way too much movement of the card, forcing you to buy penny sleeves just to keep the cards secure. Even then if you ship a card in a top loader, there is still a chance it will slip out the top when turned upside down and crease the card. It is for this reason that they are not accepted for grading submissions.

They are also expensive and heavy when you're trying to move a large quantity of them. So basically just to keep your card secure you have to 1) buy a top loader 2) buy a penny sleeve and put the card and sleeve in the holder and 3) put a piece of tape over the top of top loader before shipping.

All of these steps are consolidated into one by buying a Card Saver or the equivalent Ultra Pro holder. Plus your cards also look much better and more vibrant in them. I use Card Saver IIs for storage - as they will fit in any standard storage shoebox - and Card Saver Is for grading submissions.

[the 'stache]

I have to disagree. 95% of the cards I buy, including 100% of the cards from comc.com, are in top loaders. I have purchased about 400 cards from various sources over the last three years, and have not received a one in a card saver. Not a one. Penny sleeve, top loader, and team bag.

So card savers are hardly the "standard", at least for modern cards. They don't offer enough protection for cards. Now, for shipping to a tpg? Yes, that's what they want. But the card(s) and card savers are taped in between pieces of cardboard, then placed in a box with bubble wrap or peanuts. I would never store my cards in card savers.

[cubsfan-budman]

yeah, I'm torn on this.

i totally agree with Bill that Card Savers are the "standard". top loaders are far more common from my perspective.

that said, i feel like i bang up corners inserting cards into penny sleeves, so i have started moving towards card savers myself. i have found that some card savers do tend to yellow over time, while my Ultra Pro toploaders seem fine after many years.

card savers are great for removing cards from them (which is why i think they're great for grading submissions), but i find them not great for inserting the cards...if the corner is somewhat dinged, when sliding them in the saver, i think it can exacerbate the corner wear.

Anyhow, its a toss up. Find something from Ultra Pro or BCW in my opinion. Acid free, etc.

[the 'stache]

Christian, I understand the problems you've had with penny sleeves. I've been there. I've become fairly comfortable using them now. I take the leading edge of the card, and press it into the interior of the penny sleeve and it opens the back side up more, making it easier to get the card in.

There are also specially cut penny sleeves (I have never used them), which make insertion easier.

[the 'stache]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Ultra-Pr...item3f1cb48a58

Angle-cut penny sleeves might be helpful for ya, Christian.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

yeah, I'm torn on this.

...card savers are great for removing cards from them (which is why i think they're great for grading submissions), but i find them not great for inserting the cards...if the corner is somewhat dinged, when sliding them in the saver, i think it can exacerbate the corner wear.

Most cards I have (including pre war intage) that fit, is stored inside a penny sleeve inserted into a toploader. Easy to put in and remove -- I just grab the sleeve. Mid 50's that are a touch longer than a loader get a sleeve on each end, and then again into a loader.

[the 'stache]

If it helps you any, Jamie, all of my personal collection cards (the majority of which are Bowman Chrome autos) that are not graded are put in one touch cases, and then into graded team bags.

[phillyfan24]

Thanks everyone, appreciate the input. Jamie

[Beatles Guy]

If you have over-sized cards such as the before mentioned 50's cards, Ultra Pro does make a vintage top loader and vintage penny sleeves. I had to have my local shop order them but they are well worth it.

[brob28]

As you can see everyone's experience is slightly different. Whether I use a top loader or card saver, I put my cards in a penny sleeve. To avoid damage to any corners, I make a small cut down one seam to open up the sleeve a bit to avoid damaging the card. A pain in the ass but effective for me. That said, I was not aware of the corner-less penny sleeve's the stache mentioned.

[Exhibitman]

I use Card Savers. The problem with top loaders is that I tend to crimp or crease the tops of the cards when I pick up the holder or shuffle through a bunch of them in a box. Plus, I tend to rip my cuticles on the edges and blood on cards never comes out.

[steve B]

I use sleeves and toploaders.

I find cardsavers have a lot of problems.

Removing the card is risky, I've creased a couple cheap ones. Expensive ones I cut out of the cardsaver

They don't fit any of the boxes I use. I don't know where the poster who says they fit all the standard boxes gets his boxes from, but in shoebox boxes the cardsavers are too tall, and they don't fit the 4 row 3200 count at all. (And toploaders don't fit the new ones)

They're flexible, which is a problem in shipping. I'd rather have a stiff holder with a sleeve and tape than what's basically a fancy penny sleeve.

I don't find either to be heavy. I think a boxful of cards in toploaders would probably be lighter than a box full of cards in cardsavers. Mostly because there's more empty space.

I've sent cards to SGC in toploaders with no problem. It sure beats scavenging the house for leftover cardsavers that Ebay buys arrived in.


Steve B

[kilo]

I think a boxful of cards in toploaders would probably be lighter than a box full of cards in cardsavers.

only because you can fit more cardsaver'd cards in said box, provided the boxes are identical in size and shape. the arguement isnt for the amount of space, but for the same number of cards in said space...20 cards in cardsavers is inherently lighter than those same cards in toploaders/penny sleeves, the latter just plain has more material equalling more weight.

having said all that, i still prefer my own raw collection in top-loaders, but use 'savers' for my submissions.

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by steve B

I use sleeves and toploaders.

I don't know where the poster who says they fit all the standard boxes gets his boxes from, but in shoebox boxes the cardsavers are too tall, and they don't fit the 4 row 3200 count at all.

Steve B

Should be available in any typical hobby card store:

[Paul S]

Rob, should be available but is not, as far as I can find, here on Long Island. Sounds like Steve has the same problem in his area. I think those of us east of the Delaware Water Gap are being deprived! The few cards I have in Savers I place horizontal in the box. Whenever I want to remove a card from a Saver I have to fuss with it.
BTW, sharp lookin' 68s.

[steve B]

Is that a deep 3 row box? I have a couple 3 row boxes, but none of the cardsavers I've ever had fits those either. The cardsavers are taller than the box.

I'm not a big fan of the 3 row boxes, since they don't fit any of the shelves I have. But I tried a couple when the 4 row boxes came out that don't fit toploaders.

I even tried the 6 row "super shoebox" a few years ago. Not bad, but they didn't last long.


Steve B

[cubsfan-budman]

Thanks for the heads up!

Originally Posted by the 'stache

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Ultra-Pr...item3f1cb48a58

Angle-cut penny sleeves might be helpful for ya, Christian.

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by steve B

Is that a deep 3 row box? I have a couple 3 row boxes, but none of the cardsavers I've ever had fits those either. The cardsavers are taller than the box.

I'm not a big fan of the 3 row boxes, since they don't fit any of the shelves I have. But I tried a couple when the 4 row boxes came out that don't fit toploaders.

I even tried the 6 row "super shoebox" a few years ago. Not bad, but they didn't last long.


Steve B

Is is just a three-row shoebox used for normal card storage. I think I dumped some raw cards out of it and converted it into storage for 68 commons. Maybe you are using Card Saver Is? (They don't fit anywhere). I use Card Saver IIs for storage and that is what you see in the picture. They come right up to the top of the box but do not extend beyond the lip of the box. So you can put weight/other boxes on top of it without having to worry about damaging the cards.

They do get heavy - but the tradeoff is you have many more cards in there than you would if you filled the same space with top loaders.

But to each their own - everyone has their own preference and that's great. For years I was an exclusive top loader guy and much of my collection is still in them. Just recently I have been making the conversion to Card Savers for all the aforementioned reasons.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

Is is just a three-row shoebox used for normal card storage. I think I dumped some raw cards out of it and converted it into storage for 68 commons. Maybe you are using Card Saver Is? (They don't fit anywhere). I use Card Saver IIs for storage and that is what you see in the picture. They come right up to the top of the box but do not extend beyond the lip of the box. So you can put weight/other boxes on top of it without having to worry about damaging the cards.

They do get heavy - but the tradeoff is you have many more cards in there than you would if you filled the same space with top loaders.

But to each their own - everyone has their own preference and that's great. For years I was an exclusive top loader guy and much of my collection is still in them. Just recently I have been making the conversion to Card Savers for all the aforementioned reasons.

I wonder if I've never gotten a cardsaverII? Weird since I have almost 40 years worth of different pages and holders. Probably a good percentage of everything that's come out since about 1974. I've got maybe 6-7 different sorts of cardsaver-like holders. I'll have to check which ones I have that were too tall but narrow enough for the shoebox box.

The best/worst combination so far is a Mylar sleeve inside a toploader. Stiff and the mylar is a great archival material. Terrible since the mylar is smooth enough that it displaces enough air between itself and the toploader that it can't be removed. (Like wringing two guage blocks together for the machinists in the group) Damaged a card trying to get it out and still had to cut the holders.

Steve B

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I have to disagree. 95% of the cards I buy, including 100% of the cards from comc.com, are in top loaders. I have purchased about 400 cards from various sources over the last three years, and have not received a one in a card saver. Not a one. Penny sleeve, top loader, and team bag.

So card savers are hardly the "standard", at least for modern cards. They don't offer enough protection for cards. Now, for shipping to a tpg? Yes, that's what they want. But the card(s) and card savers are taped in between pieces of cardboard, then placed in a box with bubble wrap or peanuts. I would never store my cards in card savers.

I have to agree with Bill, but certainly none of the current methods of storing are perfect. I have had better luck using penny sleeves & top loaders though.

[glynparson]

Way better and less possible damage than top loaders, heck the vast majority of cards get slightly damaged when put in a penny sleeve. Way to much side to side movement in top loaders way to easy to slide out the top as well. This should not even be a question.

[Leon]

I use toploader and penny sleeves for all of my raw regular sized cards....I also use 4 x 6 toploaders, 5 x 7 toploaders and 8 x 10 toploaders...all with sleeves.. and then for even larger items I have huge toploaders with no sleeves. Just my preference.....

[Tanman7baseball]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Ultra-Pr...item3f1cb48a58

Angle-cut penny sleeves might be helpful for ya, Christian.

Thats awesome I was just going to mention I slice one corner of all my penny sleeves before I put the cards in. I guess I should of did some research because that would have saved me A LOT of time lol. Cut exactly 1000 penny sleeve corners in the last month...damn oh well.. I use top loaders for everything. The card savers are too flimsy for my taste

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Way better and less possible damage than top loaders, heck the vast majority of cards get slightly damaged when put in a penny sleeve. Way to much side to side movement in top loaders way to easy to slide out the top as well. This should not even be a question.

Sure there should be a question.

Side to side movement in a top loader...the penny sleeve protects it. And if the toploader is in a team bag, there's zero chance the card slides out.

A card saver has zero rigidity. Far too easy for a card to get bent. And sliding a card in to a card saver is like spinning a gun's cylinder, sticking it to your head, and pulling the trigger. If anything goes wrong, your card is borked.

[jimm]

Have just started getting the 3 row boxes for regular issue sets, all cards in penny sleeves, stars in top loaders. For the oddball stuff and extras I'm using the leftover Card Guards in shoeboxes.

[bsuttonosu]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

Maybe you are using Card Saver Is? (They don't fit anywhere).

I believe the Card Saver 1s are the same size as the Ultra Pro graded card submission semi-regids. I use the Ultra Pro version for lots of my card storage and they fit perfectly in BCW vault boxes for graded cards. The nice thing about the vault boxes is you can have your less valuable cards in the semi-rigids to save space and your key cards graded and all fit in the same vault box. The regular size/smaller vault box fits the Card Saver 2 size and fits top loaders with team bags over them, which many multi row boxes don't. I always put team bags over my top loaders so I'm a big vault box fan.

I use the larger semi-rigids so that I can put the cards in a penny sleeve. I've never gotten a good answer on whether or not the semi-rigids, Ultra Pro or Card Saver, are acid free so I don't trust it.

[chaddurbin]

card savers bend cards too easily. I use penny sleeve with the top slice off a bit inside a toploader inside a teambag. nothing beats that for me. I don't even use the magnet touch case for modern cards I Feell the edge can be damaged
during shipping.

taping the top of the toploader is the worst, we r not animals show some class and get some teambags or graded card sleeves

[the 'stache]

I understand why people use tape, as the adhesive on team bags will sometimes give way. But if they want to do that, at least fold a piece of paper over the top of the top loader, then put the piece of tape over that with extra on both ends.

I would prefer, however, if people are going to use tape, tape over the end of the team bag. That way, a new top loader isn't ruined.

[steve B]

If it's taped right the top of the toploader gets squeezed closed. That way the card can't come out, and can't get stuck to the tape either.

Combine that with tape that won't leave the adhesive behind and it's good.

I only do that for shipping, and usually use the penny sleeve upside down too.

The ones in my collection are neither taped or bagged.

Steve B

[JollyElm]

I'm getting the distinct impression that the 'stache is obsessed with team bags.

[the 'stache]

I just like cards to be well protected

[cards01fan]

I always take the penny sleeves and slice the side of them with a knife, just about a 1/4 inch and the card slides right in

[brewing]

I detest tape. If you must tape, blue painters tape is highly recommended. It leaves no residue and doesn't require a razor blade, scissors, or knife to cut thru it.