Caught! Crook who sold Ruth fakes to FL pawn shops

[Mr. Zipper]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...eballs/1186842

Largo police are holding this baseball with its phony Babe Ruth autograph and fraudulent certification letter as evidence in the case against 40-year-old Marc A. Szakaly of Land O’ Lakes. He’s charged with organized fraud, accused of selling at least 35 of the balls throughout the state.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Thank you for the link to that story, Steve.

[JayZim13]

Interesting article since I am living in Florida.
Was there anything on the cert that would identufy as phony immediately without checking back with PSA?

[mdschulze]

The article states, "A snowbird who wanted it for his son asked that it be recertified. So Pawn Mart sent the ball off to PSA/DNA Authentication Services in California, the company that had penned the first certificate".

Why would someone want it recertified by the same company? Is this a common practice by other collectors?

[packs]

Maybe he thought the ball looked fishy.

[mdschulze]

Maybe so but if it were me, I'd want a totally different authenticator to look at it... not the original one who possibly made a mistake the first time.

[thecatspajamas]

Maybe he thought the LOA looked fishy rather than the ball itself.

[travrosty]

This whole thing stinks. everytime a psa or jsa cert gets copied, someone loses a lot of money. the only way some companies can combat it is to invest in a technology so expensive that individuals wont employ the same technology to copy it, due to its prohibited cost.

the company eventually recoups the technology investment over many years, but the individual doesnt have that luxury. they are just taking a regular piece of paper and printing the info and cert number on it. that's not security.

[RichardSimon]

They counterfeit money,,, counterfeiting a COA is a piece of cake for these crooks.

[drc]

The real LOAs have the PSA/DNA or JSA watermarks in the paper.

I suppose the forgers could forge the watermarks, but I'm not aware that's been done.

[Big Dave]

If you look at the PSA/DNA letter shown, you can see the watermark.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

If you look at the PSA/DNA letter shown, you can see the watermark.

You're right.

Looks like they are going to have to start putting a numbered hologram sticker on the LOA as well. They could be faked, but at least it makes it that much harder.

[David Atkatz]

PSA could issue a certificate for the certificate. There's a whole new revenue stream! Send in your CoAs to be authenticated.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

PSA could issue a certificate for the certificate. There's a whole new revenue stream! Send in your CoAs to be authenticated.

+1 (1/2) a grading bump for PSA

Hope they are not reading this thread David, you just gave them a gold mine of an idea.
If there is a buck out there, they will scramble for it.

[travrosty]

David,

I have seen a coa issued for a coa.

When Bill Russell signs for Richard Altman, he also signs a coa for each item, signed William Russell.

So if you buy an item, you are getting two Bill Russell signatures.

Some people sell just the coa with the William Russell signature on ebay, and I saw one with a PSA cert for the William Russell signed Altman cert. It's jumped the shark already.

If you need a PSA cert in order to trust the Altman cert, then what good would the Altman cert be in the first place if people used that logic. People are getting crazy.

[Big Dave]

Thanks to eBay, ending good as well as questionable auctions. Plus JSA and PSA/DNA that turn down authentic autographs too, just because............

[glchen]

Out of curiosity, just looking at the sig in picture in the OP's post, does the Ruth look bad? Is there any other way that newbie collectors can protect themselves for this kind of scam other than getting the sig re-certified which can be a pain and expensive to boot?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by glchen

Out of curiosity, just looking at the sig in picture in the OP's post, does the Ruth look bad? Is there any other way that newbie collectors can protect themselves for this kind of scam other than getting the sig re-certified which can be a pain and expensive to boot?

It looks like he did a better job forging the Ruth signature than the Steve Grad signature in the LOA.

[packs]

The LOA is a fake. When authenticating vintage items, PSA places the sticker normally reserved for the items they authenticate on the LOA instead of the item. If you look closely you will notice that the LOA in the scan does not contain the PSA sticker anywhere on it. A clear indication of a forgery. The sticker should actually be on the bottom right hand corner which has been conveniently cropped out in the photo.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by packs

The LOA is a fake. When authenticating vintage items, PSA places the sticker normally reserved for the items they authenticate on the LOA instead of the item. If you look closely you will notice that the LOA in the scan does not contain the PSA sticker anywhere on it. A clear indication of a forgery. The sticker should actually be on the bottom right hand corner which has been conveniently cropped out in the photo.

I thought they placed the sticker on the LOA ONLY if they do not place it on the item.

I suspect that most pawn shop employees are not aware of this nuance.

[glchen]

Does JSA do something similar with a sticker or do they just have the LOA?

[travrosty]

both jsa and psa have a hologram sticker, and they place it either on the item or the loa, which ever you prefer, if you don't state a preference, they will decide.

but each item will have a hologram sticker with a cert number on it that will match the cert number on the paper loa. if you don't see a hologram sticker, that is a red flag.

on an expensive item like this, I would make sure there is a hologram sticker either on the item or the LOA, make sure it matches the cert number on the paper LOA, and I would go to a computer, and enter it in the database on the website first, before purchasing the item, to see if the photo in the database matches the item and the picture on the loa, if it doesn't, then you have a problem. If there is no picture available on the database, then I would call up the company, tell them what i am looking at, give the cert number, and have them verify the item BEFORE purchase.

Once you purchase, and the seller walks out the door, then you own what you have bought, real or not.

[Big Dave]

The thing with PSA/DNA is that there are quite a view items that do not have photos in their database, or even the wrong item showing, and if you call them up to verify, all they can tell you is that the item is a signed so-n-so, which doesn't actually help you at all.

Both JSA and PSA/DNA do not use holograms either, just plain numbered stickers. A hologram is something that UDA uses, which looks three-dimensional when viewing it at an angle.

[packs]

PSA and JSA place the sticker on the LOA of vintage items. It is out of respect to the item. If I owned a Ruth baseball I would not want a sticker on it. I would want it in the same state it has been for the last 60, 70, 80 odd years. In these cases they place the sticker with the corresponding number on the LOA itself. It is tamper proof and cannot be removed without damaging the LOA.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by packs

PSA and JSA place the sticker on the LOA of vintage items. It is out of respect to the item. If I owned a Ruth baseball I would not want a sticker on it. I would want it in the same state it has been for the last 60, 70, 80 odd years. In these cases they place the sticker with the corresponding number on the LOA itself. It is tamper proof and cannot be removed without damaging the LOA.

Don't sticker any item. It's pollution!!

[David Atkatz]

How can one know that it's an authentic sticker?! It must be authenticated!

[olsport]

PSA should use technology like todays currency in there certificates like watermarks, threads, special paper. Even then, the crooks could buy a real ball, make a fake ball, and use the real certificate with the fake ball, fake sticker. Too many ways to be a crook in sports memorabilia (or any other hobby)these days. Also, how can the authenticators be 100% certain something is real. We all know, they can't, especially if the dishonest crook is an expert at fakery.
That's the problem with anything that becomes valuable. Look at all the paintings that have been faked throughout history. A jeweler in my area got busted for replacing people's real diamonds with CZ's, when they brought them in for cleaning, ect.

[drc]

If the PSA/DNA sticker isn't put on the autographed item (often due to submitter or due to group lot), it is put on the LOA.