T205 backs -- scarcity?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I couldn't locate a thread on this one so if anyone has this info handy: what is the breakdown of backs in the T205 set? And does back scarcity impact prices as it does with T206s?

Thanks

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Posted By: robert a

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1190408515/

I think this thread has some info. about ranking the scarcer backs.

T206 backs have always been more popular because the designs and colors change a bit more.

Edited to say that I beat Leon by one minute.

Rob

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Posted By: leon

This is from an old thread and is from our own respected expert on T205's, Joshua Levine....( I concur with him )...hope this helps...

From hardest to easiest...
Drum
Hindu
Broadleaf (black)
Broadleaf (brown)
Piedmont Fact. 42
American Beauty (black)
American Beauty (green)
Cycle
Soverign
Hassan Fact. 30
Sweet Cap. (black) Fact. 42
Honest Long Cut
Hassan Fact. 649
Sweet Cap. (black) Fact. 25
Sweet Cap. (red)
Polar Bear
Piedmont Fact. 25


IMO, the T205 Drum is much harder to find than the T206's. I think there is a bigger disparity between the price of a T205 Drum vis a vis the other lesser backs and the T206 Drum. regards...

edited to say that Rob and I posted about the same time...oh well...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Guys, thanks very much.

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Posted By: Trae R.

Does anyone happen to have Joshua Levine's email, and wouldn't mind sharing if you think he'd be OK with me dropping him a line? I am working on a new T205 website and would appreciate having the resource if I need it.

Thanks

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Posted By: Hank

Just a little bit more info ...
In an article written in the Spring 2007 SGC Collector Magazine,Shawn Adkins also refers to the T205 Blank Back.
Out of a database of over 17,000 cards he indicated that he had only identified 9 cards.
In the PSA POP report 2 cards are listed as "Blank Back" [McConnell & Mathewson], and 2 cards listed as "Printing Incomplete [Back]" - which is essentially the same thing [Karger & Tannehill]. I know of one other "Printing Incomplete" which is of Ty Cobb.
I am fortunate to have the Matty & Cobb and would be interested in knowing if anyone can add to this list.
There is also a blank back proof [or scrap] of Reulbach with an upside down ghost image of Raymond and no gold border - hand cut - which is a pretty cool card.

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Posted By: Ray

A few more good threads...which should be added to the archives, too.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1168817135/last-1168869598/Pondering+the+T205+Set

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1169051810/last-1169056536/T205+Patrick+Moran+%26quot%3Bstray+line%26quot%3B

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Posted By: barrysloate

I don't think T205 backs are as widely collected as T206 backs, partly because the T205's are not as visually interesting.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Jeff L -
I have an extra copy of the Spring 2007 Sgc collector magazine Hank speaks of that has alot of
really nice information in it pertaining to the T205 set, including back scarcity.
If you'd like it email me privately with your shipping address and I'll get it out in the mail
to you.
Regards, Tony Andrea

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Posted By: scott brockelman

I think there would be quite a difference in a true production blank back and printers scrap unfinished blank back(which should be more common). I believe I have one of each, will dig them out later today. I also have a Hindu to post and what I beleive is the nicest Drum back in existence.

Scott

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Posted By: scott brockelman

Here are 2 SGC 50 cards, a Hindu and the Drum, due to the dark slabs I had to make the pics a bit dark, the Drum is very fresh with good registry, the only 1 graded higher was the Lionel Carter 70 which is a bit OC and not as sharp, although it had stronger corners.

Also here are 3 blank back cards, All are handcut, the Street, definitely saw quite a bit of wear and certainly appears to have circulated. The Parent is very sharp and fresh and does not appear to have been handled much. Both appear to have all color runs and fully finished. The McGraw is certainly printers scrap as evidenced by the over print of another player. I cannot match the overprint with any T205 player. I thought it mught be Doolan or maybe Foxen.

Scott

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Posted By: J Levine

Trae,
Hi! I am around...drop me an email anytime. I would be glad to help with anything you need.
Shawn actually used a lot of my data and research to help write his article and it was a fine job.

Blank backs are tough and most are printers scrap. I do own a factory cut blank back and will try to post it later today when I get home to my archives.

I have been tracking back scarcity and doing research on t205s for nearly a decade now. My very first data compilation was in 2000 using sales data from 1998 and 1999. Every year I update the totals and I think the list above that Leon posted is fairly accurate. I think Piedmont 42s might have dropped below the American Beauties for now but that might be because people are cashing in on them now.

Let me know what you need.

Joshua

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Posted By: J Levine

Oh yeah...Scott, I forgot to mention that years ago I handled another printers scrap that had a very similar overprint to yours. I found out that it was from the t80 set that also has a gold border style. You might try looking at that set as a possibility.

Joshua

Edited to add a thanks to Leon (I can't remember the last time I was called "respected.")

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Posted By: JimB

Scott,
The yellow boarder on the McGraw is very interesting. Great cards.
jimB

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Posted By: dan mckee

Drum is toughest then Hindu, sorry Lew, I still love you!

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Posted By: Mike Ernst

Back in about 1974, Richard Egan was THE guy when it came to checklists of T205 and T206. His checklist article was dated January 1966, and he acknowledged Charles Barker, Walter Corson, Frank Nagy, and MH Wise for their help. (I corresponded with him, with Lionel Carter, Irv Lerner, Gar Miller, Jack Smalling, LLoyd Toerpe etc., etc. back then) Somewhere I have the correspondence with Richard Egan that thanks me for reporting a Hindu-backed T-205 (I still have it) that was the first one that was reported in the hobby. I guess I should have kept up with that stuff since then!

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Posted By: Mike Ernst

Just looked at all the T-205 backs I have--complete set minus a few variation, plus about 30 duplicates, all collected prior to 1975, with absolutely no regard for the back:
No drums
1 Hindu
2 Broadleaf black
no Broadleaf brown
3 Piedmont factory 42
1 American Beauty black
no American Beauty green
1 Cycle
8 Sovereign
Many of all the rest.
FWIW

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Posted By: Trae R.

Joshua,

Thanks! I will look forward to speaking with you in the near future.

Regards

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Posted By: scott brockelman

You won't find a Broadleaf brown, there is no such color, there is however an olive green back to go with the black, they are about 50/50 in population,

Scott

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Posted By: Ed Hans

That is one damn fine looking Drum back!

Regards,

Ed

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Posted By: J Levine

Scott is right about the Broadleaf...the brown notation was completely my fault as I was copying from a very old article that had mislisted it as "brownish". The olive or khaki Broadleaf population is nearly the same (a small find of black Broadleafs (leaves?) last year drove the pop. up a bit but not a statistically significant amount).

Joshua

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Posted By: Matt

For the sake of the Archives, I'm adding a link to the ongoing discussion about back value multipliers so it can all be accessed from this thread in the archives.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1203962477/last-1204040611/T205+Multipliers