Deserving of a PSA 10?

[Peter_Spaeth]

What do you think?

[barrysloate]

When you compare 10's to 9's, they look interchangeable.

[Lorewalker]

What's going on in the upper left corner?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

What's going on in the upper left corner?

Looks like a fragment of cardboard that was left during the cutting process - didn't cut through all the way.

I have no problem with it as a PSA 10.

[bxb]

I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by bxb

I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.

The 'ol 70/30 PSA 10.

Slabbing is a joke.

[insidethewrapper]

How can any card that is 115+ years old look like that ? Remember it was packaged in a tobacco pack . This card has never been dropped etc. ?? Just putting it in and out of a CardSaver without corner nicks is hard to do . Wow !

[tiger8mush]

"4.5" if I'd submitted it. Or "A".

[Peter_Spaeth]

If you enlarge the upper right corner, it looks angled or something.

[sterlingfox]

Should not be higher than an 8 with that top to bottom centering.

Ridiculous that this got slabbed a 10

[RedsFan1941]

OUTRAGEOUS!!! but at least the board is finally talking about a heritage auction.

[Lorewalker]

I cannot afford it. I do not know T206s well either so with those disclosures my worthless opinion is that it is not a 10. I see what appears to be a tobacco stain too. My hunch is that if taken out of the holder it would not come back as a 10 the next time. If it were my card however I would not see any of the flaws we have pointed out.

In a perfect world I think I would prefer to buy a card that I feel would grade the same way if submitted again. I know not all collectors, especially those at the top of the food chain, care about that.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bxb

I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.

If the centering begins below the letters at the bottom of the card (which I believe it does?) then I believe it is in tolerance of receiving a 10?
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards#detail

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

How can any card that is 115+ years old look like that ? Remember it was packaged in a tobacco pack . This card has never been dropped etc. ?? Just putting it in and out of a CardSaver without corner nicks is hard to do . Wow !

I have always wondered that too. How could a card that old or older stay so sharp and clean after all these years?

I am not suggesting it isn't possible, I would just like to know how cards like these were saved/preserved when I highly doubt any type of card savers/sheets were available way back then.

Can I assume most were placed between pages of thick books? I'd honestly like to know what collectors did way back then.

[x2drich2000]

IMO, there is no way this should be a 10, especially with the back being so far off-center and stained.



DJ

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by irv

If the centering begins below the letters at the bottom of the card (which I believe it does?) then I believe it is in tolerance of receiving a 10?
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards#detail



I have always wondered that too. How could a card that old or older stay so sharp and clean after all these years?

I am not suggesting it isn't possible, I would just like to know how cards like these were saved/preserved when I highly doubt any type of card savers/sheets were available way back then.

Can I assume most were placed between pages of thick books? I'd honestly like to know what collectors did way back then.

Most of the old time collections were stored in cigar boxes. By stacking them horizontally they were protected from further wear, assuming nobody took them out to look at them. The card would have to have been placed in the cigar box in Mint condition of course, which is difficult enough, then preserved that way for a century.

Is it reasonable to question then how so many T206's remain to this day in pristine or near pristine condition? Yes, that's a fair question. There have been some finds over the years of pristine cards, so some of the 8's, 9's and 10's are perfectly original. But not all.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

OUTRAGEOUS!!! but at least the board is finally talking about a heritage auction.

We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.

Is that right? So a number of these were cracked and re-submitted?

[calvindog]

I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.

For good reason.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.

I wonder if I could do that as well. http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/i...s/confused.gif


scan0007.jpg

[calvindog]

But it "presents well!"

[Sean]

Originally Posted by calvindog

But it "presents well!"

Perhaps when it eventually gets sold it will get a High End certification.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For good reason.

I'm far too lazy and disinterested to look, does the write up mention the pedigree?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I'm far too lazy and disinterested to look, does the write up mention the pedigree?

LOL

Wait. You're serious?

[JollyElm]

I think it's an 11. Someone purple sticker that slab!!!

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

How can any card that is 115+ years old look like that ? Remember it was packaged in a tobacco pack . This card has never been dropped etc. ?? Just putting it in and out of a CardSaver without corner nicks is hard to do . Wow !

I posted about this subject in a previous thread on the 9-10's in this auction:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=257327

Starting at post #13 through #25 might lend some insight. There was a large find of uncirculated T206's at the end of the 1980's. From the backs that were in the group it was likely a box of cards meant to be put into packs at factory 25 that were taken home. No Sweet Caporal, Just Piedmont 150-350, Sovereign 150-350 and Old Mill Southern League. You will notice the number of Sovereign 150 backs in this collection at Heritage. This was a pretty well documented find at the time, I covered about all I can remember in the other thread.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.

As painful as it is to say, I agree with Jeff on this. This card should be no higher than an 8 IMO, the upper left corner regardless of the cut, simply keeps this card way below a grade of 10, not even close... Also, there are Harris cards out there that look like Stevie Wonder trimmed them....

[orly57]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

IMO, there is no way this should be a 10, especially with the back being so far off-center and stained.



DJ

Do they not consider the centering on the back when making their assessment? I can’t believe that they would not. We can all agree that the card doesn’t deserve a 10, but some guy won’t care and will drop absurd money on the flip anyway. It’s madness.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by orly57

Do they not consider the centering on the back when making their assessment? I can’t believe that they would not. We can all agree that the card doesn’t deserve a 10, but some guy won’t care and will drop absurd money on the flip anyway. It’s madness.

Even if this card was spot on, perfect centering on the back, 8 at best should be the grade.,...

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by calvindog

LOL

Wait. You're serious?

Sometimes, but not now..................

[swarmee]

Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.

Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.

Yeah no way are they writing checks because cards were graded under looser standards back in the day.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.

More likely that PSA will tell you that someone cracked a holder and slipped the flip and this 8 (OC) card in.

[irv]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Most of the old time collections were stored in cigar boxes. By stacking them horizontally they were protected from further wear, assuming nobody took them out to look at them. The card would have to have been placed in the cigar box in Mint condition of course, which is difficult enough, then preserved that way for a century.

Is it reasonable to question then how so many T206's remain to this day in pristine or near pristine condition? Yes, that's a fair question. There have been some finds over the years of pristine cards, so some of the 8's, 9's and 10's are perfectly original. But not all.

Thanks Barry. I also read that thread about the Southern Find, that is something I never considered.

Originally Posted by swarmee

Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.

Can one not request the grade remain the same when submitting for a reholder/new flip or would the TPG's say the cards no longer meet the grade we gave them X number of years ago and need to be regraded?

[Copa7]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

"4.5" if I'd submitted it. Or "A".

+1

I saw these so called 10s. No way. The Germany Shaffer is 60/40 side to side.

Someone paid for this. I have lots of perfectly good cards off center. Why don't they rate a 10 ?

[insidethewrapper]

No qualifiers ??????

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by irv

Can one not request the grade remain the same when submitting for a reholder/new flip or would the TPG's say the cards no longer meet the grade we gave them X number of years ago and need to be regraded?

Sure, you can ask for a reholder and the card should not be evaluated unless there is tampering or the grade is totally off so as to trigger a review.
I am talking about the Review process, where you pay PSA to review the card in the holder, with no minimum grade. If PSA now deems this card to be a PSA 7 instead of a 10, their guarantee states that they will reimburse the submitter the difference between what they paid and what a 7 sells for.
I was just spitballing anyways, because the person buying this will definitely overpay for the 10 on the flip for a set registry, and it will never be reviewed.

And Copa, if you submitted your cards 20 years ago, they may have been graded more leniently. But since you don't have a time machine, you get graded by today's current standards, just like the rest of us.

[Leon]

To me 9s and 10s always look the same. They probably look the same to graders too LOL..... Flip a coin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

To me 9s and 10s always look the same. They probably look the same to graders too LOL..... Flip a coin.

Or check who submitted them. LOL.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by bxb

I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.

YUP! Makes you wonder who submitted it.

[barrysloate]

The McGraw pointing is truly an extraordinary card, and when you look at it you understand why it was graded a 10. But a few of the other 10's don't match up well and make you wonder just what is going on. Many of them should only grade 9 at best. I don't know anyone who really understands how grading works at this exalted level.

[vintagerookies51]

Ever since I started collecting about 10 years ago, I've always thought there was one huge flaw in the grading system. The second lowest grade is GOOD- that makes absolutely zero since. You got practically the upper half of the system with the word mint in it. Everything 7-10 looks the same to me and that's why I just stick with 3s and under lol

With that said, there's no way this card should grade a 10, especially after looking at the back

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

"4.5" if I'd submitted it. Or "A".

Same here.

[Pat R]

I think some of the cards with low cert numbers are suspect
when it comes to trimming and minimum size requirements.

McGraw PSA.jpg

McGraw PSA - Copy.jpg

[NotVader]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What do you think?

not a 10 ?

Oh Wait … its a 10 as per PSA!

Drink the Kool-Aid People !!

From Sunny Florida

CV