The mighty flip

[Peter_Spaeth]

Football example, but I am putting this on the front page because it's a universal phenomenon. The 8.5 sold at auction for 2993. The 8 is available, and likely will never sell because it's well above market, at 699. Welcome to the asylum.

[nsaddict]

Yup....your choice...for 3K

Lane PSA 8.5

or

Lane PSA 8
Starr PSA 7
Unitas PSA 7

[mantlefan]

your just realizing now that TPG is a subjective process in which the standards of grading are not standard?

[slightlyrounded]

To be fair, appears the PSA 8 is the much more common “horizontal variation”

[Bigshot69]

The jump from 8.5 to 9 tacks roughly another $15k to the hammer price. Granted there might only be a half dozen or so of them that have graded so high.

It’s a very popular set and “Nightrain” is a legend. If the Unitas RC is $10k in PSA 8, the Lane RC seems undervalued in the same grade all things considered. I’m sure there are more QB collectors than DB collectors out there though.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

your just realizing now that TPG is a subjective process in which the standards of grading are not standard?

No, I think the point he's making is we, as buyers, pay for the flip (the opinion of a $25/hr employee) instead of the card.

Both of those look cards look exactly the same, yet one sells for $3k, the other no nibbles at 25% of the price. All because the flip says one is a .5 grade higher.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

To be fair, appears the PSA 8 is the much more common “horizontal variation”

Nice!

[bnorth]

The flip is everything. At one time I had 2 insanely rare cards that there is only 5 graded. When I decided to sell one of them I got an outrageously amazing offer for one from a fellow member. He chose the beater that was highly over graded over the much nicer card in a 1 point lower slab.

The flip trumps the card almost every time.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The flip is everything. At one time I had 2 insanely rare cards that there is only 5 graded. When I decided to sell one of them I got an outrageously amazing offer for one from a fellow member. He chose the beater that was highly over graded over the much nicer card in a 1 point lower slab.

The flip trumps the card almost every time.

and you were happy to sell it ....as we all would.

'Sell the flip, not the card'


Still Id rather have a PSA tell me my card is better than everyone elses (plus people will give amazing offers for) versus just the dealer telling me his card is the best....it is what it is..

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

and you were happy to sell it ....as we all would.

'Sell the flip, not the card'


Still Id rather have a PSA tell me my card is better than everyone elses (plus people will give amazing offers for) versus just the dealer telling me his card is the best....it is what it is..

I agree that it's insanity to pay multiples for an 8.5 vs. an 8, but I wouldn't be paying anything near big bucks for a card if the grading industry didn't exist. Yes, they make mistakes, etc. A lot of things in life can get a little sketchy at the fringes (home inspectors, appraisal services come to mind, not to bad mouth any board members) but I certainly wouldn't consider buying a house or an expensive piece of art without someone who knows a lot more than I do weighing in from the sidelines. And art appraisers cost a hell of a lot more than PSA or SGC do.

[Johnny630]

That 8.5 is Awful ! People are brainwashed by PSA, their registry, and pop report. Check out their add in the most recent SMR. Headings

Records are made to be Broken PSA Shatters Them

It’s a 76 Topps Baseball Set pre graded psa value $250
With the power of psa grading, your cards can do more than set records.. they can shatter them.

Oh BS come on who is gonna get 9’s and 10’s on 76 topps? The sad part is naive collectors will believe this bs hook line and sinker. Sure I’m gonna grade all my 76 Topps they’re pack fresh mint I’ve had them since 76

How many times are you gonna get cards back from psa with their infamous, I call it I don’t know so I’m gonna punt grade, min size req, or have them call cards trimmed. Not even taking into account how many they will grade improperly. It’s a fight on each and every transaction with them. Greed has destroyed this hobby.

John Marsili

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

No, I think the point he's making is we, as buyers, pay for the flip (the opinion of a $25/hr employee) instead of the card.

Both of those look cards look exactly the same, yet one sells for $3k, the other no nibbles at 25% of the price. All because the flip says one is a .5 grade higher.

Right. Exactly this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

To be fair, appears the PSA 8 is the much more common “horizontal variation”

LOL. I forgot to rotate one for better comparison.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

That 8.5 is Awful ! People are brainwashed by PSA, their registry, and pop report. Check out their add in the most recent SMR. Headings

Records are made to be Broken PSA Shatters Them

It’s a 76 Topps Baseball Set pre graded psa value $250
With the power of psa grading, your cards can do more than set records.. they can shatter them.

Oh BS come on who is gonna get 9’s and 10’s on 76 topps? The sad part is naive collectors will believe this bs hook line and sinker. Sure I’m gonna grade all my 76 Topps they’re pack fresh mint I’ve had them since 76

How many times are you gonna get cards back from psa with their infamous, I call it I don’t know so I’m gonna punt grade, min size req, or have them call cards trimmed. Not even taking into account how many they will grade improperly. It’s a fight on each and every transaction with them. Greed has destroyed this hobby.

John Marsili

Just curious... what is "awful" about the 8.5?

[timn1]

Gave me a nice chuckle

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

To be fair, appears the PSA 8 is the much more common “horizontal variation”

[TanksAndSpartans]

This is probably an over generalization, but my theory is if these same cards were graded 6 and 6.5, the 6 might sell for more because in my opinion there is a slight diamond cut to the 8.5. I'm not saying that there aren't any discriminating high end collectors, but I think there are more who buy the card over the flip at the mid to low end of the grading scale. I've seen 5s sell for more than a 6, etc. To be fair, I don't really watch auctions when the grade is way out of my price range though, so I'm not watching a lot of auctions for cards graded 8+

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Just curious... what is "awful" about the 8.5?

IMO It’s awful for a 8.5. I don’t like that tilt at all, not in a 8.5, especially at that price.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

To be fair, appears the PSA 8 is the much more common “horizontal variation”

This post made me wish this board had a "like" button. Very well played. I see this is only your 4th post, and you have already set your bar pretty high.

[shagrotn77]

The 8.5 is both sharper and better centered than the 8, so this isn't the best example of a .5 on the flip being the only difference between 2 cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

The 8.5 is both sharper and better centered than the 8, so this isn't the best example of a .5 on the flip being the only difference between 2 cards.

And the color is much better (unless the 8 is just enhanced) on the 8. In any case any differences are minor, would you not agree? Yet the difference in price is more than 4x. I stand by my asylum comment.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Football example, but I am putting this on the front page because it's a universal phenomenon. The 8.5 sold at auction for 2993. The 8 is available, and likely will never sell because it's well above market, at 699. Welcome to the asylum.

The answer is obvious, isn't it, Peter? Crack that baby out, ship it raw to PWCC, have them send it in to PSA. Voila, 8.5 baby!

Originally Posted by orly57

This post made me wish this board had a "like" button. Very well played. I see this is only your 4th post, and you have already set your bar pretty high.

I certainly got a good chuckle from it. And this is one instance where I, too, wish I could give a "like". But that would take Pandora's Box, and rip the lid off.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

To be fair, appears the PSA 8 is the much more common “horizontal variation”

WOW - Good eye - Hadn't noticed till you pointed that out!

[MattyC]

That is one of the strange yet bedrock principals of the hobby: in many cases there is an exponential price increase for an infinitesimal (or virtually invisible) increase in card quality. For example, I could probably not see a difference between Evan's '52 Mantle 9 and a 10 (and in one case I think one 10 looks a little worse than Evan's 9), yet the 10 would likely cost a few million dollars more. Then of course there are the cases where the higher graded card actually looks worse than a lower graded card.

Yet in many other cases— when the flip and the card are in harmony— I see no problem with a buyer paying a big price difference if they also see a big difference in card quality. For example, the .5 grade difference between these two cards resulted in a 2x+ premium. So not every case of a higher graded card going for a large premium over a card one half grade lower is the same.

[Johnny630]

How could that top card 51 Mantle be a 3.5 with Terrible rounded corners and print all over the card ? The bottom card is much sharper and only a .5 higher then the above card.
Idk it’s all who submits

Maybe a thread titled, What Seller Consistsntly sells the most ugly over graded cards? That would be a hoot :-)

[tschock]

Originally Posted by MattyC

For example, the .5 grade difference between these two cards resulted in a 2x+ premium. So not every case of a higher graded card going for a large premium over a card one half grade lower is the same.
[/IMG]

So you're saying... buy the card, not the flip???