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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>(edited to add oooops-this shouldn't be a seperate post and relates to the "pre-1930's" thread below.)<br /> Dwarfed only by the personal attack threads and those hijacked by people in an attempt to weave in personal agendas or political ideologies at every opportunity (real or imagined); this thread is pretty ugly in my opinion. To be fair the original question wasn't so bad - but the direction it took is.<br /> Is this really what a forum like this comes down to? Why do some people feel the need to judge either the buyer or seller for the prices they ask or the amount they are willing to spend on a card? Or whether they do or don't use grading services? Open marketplace. It's no crime that someone may perceive the value of something as more or less than the next guy. The fun of collecting is that YOU get to set the parameters that define YOUR collection. Grade, condition, year, player, cost, etc.. The seller who is bringing the things you want to market gets to make their own decisions as well.<br /> Why single out 707 sportscards, Kit Young in a recent thread, or any dealer for that matter? Did you have a specific problem with the way you've been treated? Don't like the price or the grades? Don't buy their cards and move on to someone else. If the person's business plan is weak or they are not responsive enough to their customers with regard to grading, pricing (or anything else for that matter); most likely they will not be in business long. Move on. I doubt most here need or want a sheriff.<br /> Were you cheated somehow or stolen from and feel the need or the duty to bring a legitimate problem to the community here? I think that would be OK if you have tried to resolve it with the person off the board without satisfaction - but it's not MY forum. This is not YOUR forum. It is OUR forum. Nobody here wants to be a victim of fraud. Present the facts in a clear and concise way without embellishment or emotional diatribe and then LISTEN. This is an astute group that collectively has experienced more problems than any one individual ever will on both sides of the table.<br /> Ostensibly I believe this place can be great. Like the Sims commercial used to advertise "an educated consumer is our best customer". The hobby appears to be growing exponentially with regard to focus and prices. It is marked by an influx of new collectors THIRSTY for information that protects them and heightens their ability to make good decisions. I think people are excited about their "things". They want to TALK about CARDS, and about BASEBALL, and find people that feel the same way who also want to talk about it. While to some degree the computer has lead to a de facto isolationism and in practical terms a loss of "shows" where people could look each other in the eye or share a bad cup of coffee or worse a show hot dog, it has allowed people from all parts of the world and all backgrounds to share when it is convenient for them. While some of the human contact is missing that helps facilitate shared excitement and intellectual exploration, collectors can still become a family.<br /> There are many good people that are able to get beyond the bickering because they truly want to be here. I'm sure other's have left because of it. That's the nature of the beast. People come and go for many different reasons. I just think it's a shame that people would have to leave because the original INTENT of the board has been undermined. Please get it together.....

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>these 2 threads were mild by some posted here and were hardly attacks on either of the sellers mentioned.it was just people questioning these sellers business practices. as a matter of fact people came on and replied that they had good deals with both these sellers. this is what an open forum of this type is, people exchanging opinions.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Henry- I think anybody is fair game on this forum if it is done respectfully, and I don't see where Levi Bleam was treated in any way unfairly. There was a reasonable objection that collectors had that certain dealers clutter up ebay with the same overpriced merchandise every time there is a 20 cents listing day, and that little of it ever sells. We then had a discussion concerning different business models- what works for some sellers, what works for others. What's so bad about that?<br /><br />And you posted both at 2:18 AM and at 4:40 AM. You need a good night's sleep <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>rand</b><p>This is part of the forum, dealers, auctions, ebay, ect...there are a lot of people who share a strong opinion on these topics. you wrote a nice opinion, but 707 has created alot of other opinions. if a person doesnt like the thread there are a 1000 other topics to read or start a new one.

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Posted By: <b>Steve f</b><p>Is there a Tory in our bosom?.. Someone has forgotten it's our American heritage to question such tyranny. Pardon, reading John Adams bio.<br /><br />On the otherhand, We small-time sellers benefit from these inflated prices. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>Man, I would be flattered if that many people had something nice to say about me. I guess there will always be somebody on this board looking for drama.<br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Not character assassination. I do not appreciate the saturation bombing those dealers deliver on 20 cent listing days. It ruins the promotion for everyone else and makes a mess of the general ebay listings until, like a puppy working its way through a python, it too passes.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I think Chad is an outstanding collector. <br /><br />Flattered Chad?

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>but there was that whole problem in Florida back about 7 years ago......<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>No one need know about that.<br /><br />And I wouldn't say I'm great. Outstanding, maybe, but great? I'm too humble for greatness.<br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>thanks for the post.<br />perspective is something that is always in need of revisiting on here, and I found your thoughts to be refreshing. Thank you for posting.<br /><br />As others have said, this Board is capable of far far worse, and it can be amazing how a person's behvior can change when you put them in front of a keyboard and an unchallenging computer screen...<br /><br />Your thoughts on the market behavior are spot on. Everyone is free to put whatever price they want on their stuff. If it sells, then that's the price. If it doesn't, then that's not the price today. Doesn't mean it won't be the price tomorrow, right? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />As with everything in this cruel world, you're only as good a person as 2 things:<br />1) how you treat others, and <br />2) your last transaction<br /><br />anyway, welcome<br />Jason L

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>Hey I can move on like the next guy. I suppose I just had a different idea coming into this forum about what it would be like - and what I encountered was different than my expectation. I'm a big boy and I'm no holy lama and if that's the way this thing works that's good enough for me.........

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Henry- Net54 is a rough place to hang out. There are many nice things but sooner or later a barroom brawl is going to break out...but we all manage to stick around.

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>As noted by Adam (boxingcardman), the problem is not that the dealers have unreasonably high BINs on their cards, its that they flood the listings so if I were to try and list a card, it would get lost in the clutter and in all likelihood, it will not be seen.

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>and others don't. I pretty much lived on my own after the age of 12 - my mother didn't live to see her 40th birthday - my father died with Alzhiemer's - I taught poor kids / many growing up without a second parent / in East New York and elsewhere - I have a rough idea of what "tough" is. Not feeling sorry for myself nor ignoring that a lot of people have had far tougher lives. I'm pretty sure that isn't what "I" am looking for in my hobby but I'll take it all in and go from there.<br />Not that there's anything wrong with that.........<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />(edited to partially correct my attrocious sentence mis-construction)

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Posted By: <b>Glyn Parson</b><p>that most of the people that complain about the listings being flooded dont have a leg to stand on. One guy complained, on the PSA website, that Levi was clogging up all his rod carew searches on ebay. Levi had a total of 7 carew cards listed that time. I think alot of the carping is petty jealousy. <br /><br /><br /> wonder if this comment will go poof like my last one?

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>What do you mean "poof"? Did something get deleted I am unaware of?

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Posted By: <b>RC</b><p>This is really a pretty good place to hang out most of the time and if there is a thread that I don't like, I can ignore it or just be a lurker.<br />So I guess it's just like the real world, make choices of what you want to be involved with and go with it.

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Posted By: <b>Glyn Parson</b><p>Leon it was a while ago on the memory lane thread. I may have screwed up and thought i entered a post and didnt it wouldnt be the first time i made a mistake. i wish it would be the last but i know better then that.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>As I am a poker player I always like to think of this partially stolen quote:<br /><br />I judge a man by the friends he keeps<br />the way he runs the bases<br />and the hole cards he plays.....<br /><br />The "one's last transaction" thing works well for me too; but it reminds me too much of my marriage........ or as the Duke used to say "the last round-up".<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>a poker player. Man after my own heart. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p><br />a poker player. Man after my own heart. <br /><br /> Ditto!!<br /><br />My favorite poker line as taught to me by my father.I guess it's an outlook on life too.<br /><br /><br />"A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work."<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>Chad, and I don't know you so I can't help with the "why or why not" part - but if enough people aren't saying enough good things about you - just say something good about yourself and read it over"-)

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>A lot of people rose to the seller's defense and talked about good transactions they had with him. Some people expressed annoyance with the clutter on ebay and some were wondering how/why he chose to sell the way he does. Only one person said anything negative about him. I don't see why that thread would trigger a call for us to get our act together. All in all, it was pretty civil. Now, there have been other threads that were just crazy and you would have been right to wave your finger at tsk tsk at us.<br /><br />Seriously though, I don't care if people say nice things about me, but I won't stop anybody either!

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>"Seriously though, I don't care if people say nice things about me, but I won't stop anybody either."<br /><br />Well...Chad I'm glad that you won't stop me from saying nice things about you...because that's all I can think of are nice things. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>Thanks!<br /><br />BTW, personally, I think 707 can sell any way he wants. If he has a card I want I'll have to decide if it's worth the price. In the long run, the market will dictate. I can see why the clutter would be annoying but on on 20 cent listing days you can always filter out the BINs. I actually like 20 cent listing days sometimes just to see all the cards out there. It's like window shopping.<br /><br />--Chad<br /><br />Also, I think all of you are handsome or pretty and smell like cinnamon. (I don't want all the positive vibes to come my way only. That's bad karma!)

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>catch up with many of the old posts it is likely that it was a building - growing - gnawing - and discomforting feeling I was taking away from many of the threads I chose to open, and not indicative for the most part of the specific thread or all others. That was unfair of me and perhaps off target. "I've had all I can stand and just can't stands no more....". Not sure where that was from but the stooges comes to mind "-) Wait. 1950's television show - Claude Kirshner's three ring circus and his favorite cartoons. It was Popeye "-).....

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>I can understand that. We do have a lot of contentious threads here, which is odd since we all love the same thing. Money, I guess, is probably the root cause. As usual.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>Ed</b><p>Sanctimony is sad. Debate is not.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Actually, we've all been behaving pretty good for the last week or so. At least we haven't had anybody posting and asking us for an update/summary of recent controversies. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Does that mean something is brewing in the air?

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>I'm never going to get to try my new game of BINGO out at this rate. <br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Henry- you and I are old enough to remember Claude Kirshner- do you remember the cartoon he would show, "The Magic Antelope?" It was in 15 parts, and it was about greed, and there was an antelope that created gold every time it ran through the woods. For some reason, that has stayed with me my whole life.

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>just to remember his name. It's not like he was officer Joe Bolton or anything! Sadly I do not remember that character. My earliest moral lessons were Davy and Goliath and some show that came on after modern farmer at like 6:30 Saturday or Sunday mornings called something akin to "The Light Time". Figured all good Jewish boys grew up to be good Christians........

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>How about Don Kirhsners Rock Concert? Right there with Wolfman Jack.....

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The Magic Antelope spun gold wherever he ran in the forest. The greedy king captured him and demanded he continue to produce gold endlessly. The antelope agreed, but told the king if he asked him to stop, the gold would turn to clay. <br /> The king laughed, since he knew he could never have too much gold. The antelope started to produce it, so much so that it piled over the king's head until he feared he would suffocate. He yelled "stop" and as forewarned, it all turned to clay.<br /> A great moral lesson about greed, and like I said, I never forgot it (probably last saw it around 1960).<br /><br />Edited to add no relation to Don Kirshner.

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>was far and away a favorite of mine over wolfman. There is a radio program which cuts and pastes Wolfman into their broadcasts (he's quite dead and unable to speak I believe) but unsure what station or when it's on.<br />For a young man such as yourself Leon... this is allison steele... t h e n i g h t b i r d.... signing off

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>Much of the reason I like this board besides the sharing is that I know many of you that have identified yourselves. I can really picture you speaking while I am reading. The computer age is nothing short of a miracle. I just wish I was a little beter at taming and understanding my computer 'cause sometimes my frustration leeches into the expression of my thoughts.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>I know where your coming from, the computer age is amazing. Just think our kids probably know quite a bit more about computers and the internet than we do...<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I remember Allison Steele, and she's been gone a long time...she was on the same FM station as Roscoe, who also left us a way back when.

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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p> The Wolfman Jack show is on XM and those are actually tapes of original shows which he did. Wolfman's widow apparently has a huge archive of his shows and leases (I can't think of a better word) to XM.<br /><br /> Also, all the 1970's and 80's Casey Kasem's AT 40 shows are on XM.<br /><br />Barry: You'd never believe it -- but at one point I could do a near letter perfect imitation of the Nightbird Allison Steele, who got famous for her time on WNEW-FM. <br /><br />Regards<br />Rich

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Speaking of the Wolfman Jack era- 1,000 bonuns points to whomever can name the original female singer on Meatlof's "Paradise by the Dashboard Light."

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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>Who later appeared on Night Court was the singer on the Album<br /><br />Karla DeVito was the singer you see in the video<br /><br />Regards<br />Rich<br />

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Good knowledge, Rich. Ellen Foley, who was replaced by Markie Post, of Walnut Creek, California.