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T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
This AB 350 of "Kid" Elberfeld is another "fat" one (1 15/32 inches wide). I'm finding more of these "fat" AB's than
I thought I had in my AMERICAN BEAUTY collection. Hey guys I'm still waiting for some one to chime in and explain (theories are welcomed) why American Lithographic cut these AB cards narrower than the standard size T206's. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...0Elberfeld.jpg -- https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ElberfeldB.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty I've said this before, and I'll say it again......I do NOT understand how Grading Company's (PSA, SGC, etc.) grade T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY cards with an "A". Take for example this Jennings card. I acquired this beauty many years ago. Because of the A grade on it, I purchased it for a very reasonable price. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ngsHandx50.jpg However, over the years, I felt it should have received a NUMERIC grade. So a few years ago, when SGC was still situated in New Jersey, I carefully cracked it out of its plastic capsule and drove an hour to SGC and submitted this raw card to be graded (again). https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ngsHand50x.jpg------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...sHand50xbx.jpg My expectations were realized. About an hour later, this was the result :) Somewhere, sometime there is justice in this world :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ningsSGC60.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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And now the same card resides in a PSA holder Attachment 452223 |
T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
What is your point, Pat ?
This is nothing new. I have already noted (in another thread recently) that I eventually sold this Jennings card to David Hall at the National. And of course, David had it re-graded by PSA. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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pop report lists 3 different Jennings one hand American Beauty's when actually there's only one. |
T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
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I'm not sure what you are driving at ? Are you suggesting that collectors be "forbidden" to RE-SUBMIT their cards for grading in order to get a GRADE, which truly represents their card ? ? Just because re-submitting cards will "skew" the Pop Reports. This has been going on since Day 1 in the grading business. Come on Pat, GET REAL ! ! TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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with the attitude? |
T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty This Reulbach is a little on the "fat" side (1 7/16" wide). Acquired it many years ago when I was working on my AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) run. In recent years I traded it to a good friend on this forum who collects Chicago Cubs cards. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Eelbach50x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ulbach50xb.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty One nice aspect of most "fat" AB 350 (frame) cards is how nicely centered their framed back is....such as this Del Howard card (1 7/16" wide). Are there anymore of these "fat" AB's out there ? If so, let's see them. . .https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...B350howard.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...350howardB.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty Apparently, we've run out of "fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY (AB) cards. So, let's begin with the "thin". My skinniest is an AB 460 Chance, whose width is a narrow 1 1/4 inches. And, of course (as I mentioned before) you'll find all these "skinny" T206 cards in the AB 460 group. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...atAB460x25.jpg These four are also less than the usual AB width of 1 3/8 inches. These are precisely 1 5/16 inches. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ridwell50x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ulteLatham.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...idwell50xB.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty Chase (trophy) is on of my favorite cards in the 460-only Series. This card's width conforms exactly to the AMERICAN BEAUTY standard cut. Most of them, that I have seen, are less than 1 3/8inches. Fat or thin, show us your AMERICAN BEAUTIES. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...etrophy50x.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...haseTrophy.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...aseTrophyB.jpg ^---------------- 1 5/8 " ----------------^ . . . ^----------------- 1 3/8 " -----------------^ https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...trophy50xB.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards
These colorful T209-1 cards remind me of T206's. Needless to say, they are quite rare. And this is probably why I enjoy the challenge in finding them.
Also, I prefer the blue lettering in their captions. The blue ink is more distinct than the brown captions on the T206's. And I have to thank Leon for providing me four of these T209 cards approx. 10 years ago....which completed my set. Some catalogues date them as a 1910 issue. However, research indicates these cards may have been issued in late 1909. Net54 members, Mike Peich and Tim Newcomb have done some outstanding research on this set, and you can read all about it in.... https://t209-contentnea.com/t209-overview/ https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rSisBouCow.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...gGilCroFul.jpg Hoffman is my favorite in the set. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nT209xPSA3.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...T209xPSA3b.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...T209%20_2_.jpg I have said enough for now.....therefore, show us some of your T209 cards. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards
OK, carrying on......shown here is a sampling of the T209-2 CONTENTNEA cards. These B/W photo-type cards were issued in 1910, and a
complete set consists of 222 subjects. You old-timers will find this story interesting. Some years ago Mike Peich called me regarding a bunch of T209-2 cards that he knew I had. Since we both live in Pennsylvania, we decided on a meeting place mid-way between our residences. And sure enough it was Willow Grove. Remember the Marriott Hotel on Rte. 611....that's where we did our deal and for 2 hours (or more) reminiscing about the good ole days at the famous Willow Grove BB card Show. T209-1 cards https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ubjects1bk.jpg Furthermore, note that the T209-2 cards have the standard bottom line for Federal Tobacco Tax purposes. On the other hand, the T209-1 cards were not printed with it. So, employees at the Factory (Wilson, NC) hand stamped the bottom line information on the backs of these cards. Anyhow, many of these cards are missing this stamp. T209-1 backs https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...tFactoryNo.jpg I'm still waiting to see your pretty looking T209-1 cards. I think the color printing quality of these 16 cards is a tad better than the T206's. What's your opinion ? TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
[QUOTE=tedzan;2111012]These colorful T209-1 cards remind me of T206's. Needless to say, they are very rare. And, this is probably why I enjoy the challenge in finding them./QUOTE]
Ted, congrats for having completed this T209-1 set of 16 cards. But I am curious as to why you say "they are very rare." The combined PSA & SGC pop reports show a total of 495 T209-1 cards graded, with the least number graded being 24 each for Cooper & Gilmore. As we know, there are many pre-War cards for which only one, two, or three examples are known to exist. How do you describe these cards? IMHO, T209-1s are scarce or perhaps even quite scarce, but not rare. |
T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series.....show us your T209 cards
Hi Val
I'm surprised that the population reports list that many T209-1 cards. Anyhow, the synonym for "scarce" is "rare". So, I'll modify my comment to say "quite rare" :) I completed this set 10 years ago. And like Ringo Starr once sang...."It Don't Come Easy". At BB card shows you seldom see them (and this is so, even at the National). After all these years, I recently upgraded my Hoffman card. I have a few more that need up-grading. I'll leave you by asking you this: Have you tried putting together this set of 16 cards ? https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nT209xPSA3.jpg . TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Ted, thanks for the enlightenment. I have long thought that rare meant scarcer than scarce.
No Ted, I have never tried to put together a T209-1 set, as I am not a set collector, with one exception, that being the 1925 Holland Creameries set of 18 cards. |
I have always thought rarity referred to the number of cards in existence, while scarcity referred to the availability of the card. A rare card will probably always be scarce, but a scarce card does not necessarily have to be rare.
T209-1 is my favorite set, and was the first prewar set I completed. I think the pop numbers are somewhat inaccurate, as I recall seeing numerous examples of T209s getting cracked and reslabbed by different TPGs. Some of the cards are certainly tougher than others. Hoffman is probably the easiest, and Booles is probably the hardest. I think I've only seen 2 Booles cards come up for sale in the past seven years, and I bought one of them. So as Ted hinted, putting together the set will take some time and patience. But it is doable, especially because it's only 3% of the size of the Monster! ETA: About seven years ago, I took substantial notes on the PSA and SGC pop reports for T209-1. At that time, there were 398 total cards slabbed by both companies. So that number has gone up by about 100 since then. The hardest card was Booles with 17 total examples, and the easiest was Hoffman with 38. Here is my set: https://live.staticflickr.com/4490/3...4b68539e_b.jpg |
T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series.....show us your T209 cards
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Very nice, thanks for displaying your set. I, too, am suspect of the pop report total of these cards. These T209-1 cards...."Don't Come Easy"....and, they don't come "CHEAP". With respect to that latter comment....I suspect due to their high $$$$ value, many of these cards have been resubmitted, hoping for an increase in their $$$$ value. Dan....do you also collect the T209-2 cards ? TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series.....show us your T209 cards
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It was approx. 10 years ago at the Philly Show when you absolutely "made my day". You offered me this 1910 COUPON Matty, and we a nice deal on it. You are really one of the great guys in this hobby. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...onmatty75x.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nmatty75xb.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Here is my example from this set, Walsh, shown the day after a bar fight.
Brian (Not part of any TPG population report. My card probably spent a night in jail, whereas many of his brothers are doing 25 to life in their plastic prisons) |
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I'm not trying to start anything Dan but there have been 9 sales of 7 different Booles in the past two years. Here's the 7 different Booles that sold 2-26-21 Attachment 463202 1-17-21 Attachment 463203 5-12-20 Attachment 463205 12-8-19 Attachment 463208 10-5-19 Attachment 463209 8-11-19 Attachment 463210 6-25-19 Attachment 463211 |
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T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards
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Years ago, I had about 80 of of the T209-2 cards. But like you, I've always been a set collector, and at any given time I am in the process of completing several sets. So, it did not appeal to me to continue collecting T209-2 cards. After considering that it would have been a very, very long journey. TED Z T206 Reference . |
It is interesting that 3 of the Booles Pat showed as well as my Walsh all have paper damage in basically the same spot on the bottom right border (yes, my Walsh also has a ton of other damage).
Probably just a coincidence, but thought I would point it out anyway. Brian |
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Ted, thanks for the kind words. I was planning to come to this weekend's Philly Show only if the National was either cancelled or held but with significant Covid-19 restrictions; it currently appears that there will be a normal or near-normal National this year. I may make it to one of the Philly Shows later this year. Every time you have showed your T213-1 Coupon of Matty, I have recalled our trade and realized how delighted you were to obtain this card. And, truth be told, I have felt a bit of trader's remorse, despite being delighted with the T206 Sovereign 350 WaJo portrait I received from you. This is because I'm partial to very scarce/rare cards, and I really liked having the Matty as my T213-1 type card, but of course, one has to give up something good to get something good. |
Amazing Contentneas everyone! I too highly recommend Mike and Tims research on the subject. Mikes website dedicated to the issue is so well done and a true wealth of knowledge. I recently started a Series 1 set and I'm 136 deep on the Series 2 set. I'm partial to the black and white issues but these cards have the most interesting images and backgrounds. I even have a theory Jim Thorpe is seen in the background of a card. Have to get home to verify the player on the card. Good stuff!
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T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards
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Jason I'd love to see the card with Jim Thorpe's image on it. As you probably know, Thorpe played for Rocky Mount and Fayetteville during the Summers of 1910-11. Supposedly, those two brief experiences in professional Baseball cost Jim his medals and trophies, which he won in the 1912 Olympics in Stockholm. He was forced to return them. Gee, it would have been really neat if they had included a card of Thorpe in this set. Good Luck putting together the color set. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Ok here we go and this is just a theory. As mentioned Jim Thorpe played for Fayetteville in the 1910-1911 season. I believe that some cards depict images from preseason camps as a few players that have cards seem to never have played a game with the designated team. Background players on some cards seem to be waiting their turn to take infield practice. So that brings me to the Lavoia card from the Highlanders team. Notice the very stocky player in the background. He is awaiting his turn as possibly the backup first baseman. Of course I have zero proof of it actually being Jim Thorpe. Its just fun to think it is!
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I bought my first T209-1 in 2017, but didn't buy my second one for another three years. In the past year I've purchased 4 of the 5 I own. At this rate I hope to complete the set in about three years!
I really enjoy collecting the more obscure sets. These guys were playing in C and D leagues, in what I have to imagine, not the best conditions and not for a great deal of money. There is a certain mystique surrounding this time in baseball that originally drew me to T206 cards. While I still collect T206, I get a little more excited each time I add one of these cards to my set. I also own 13 of the T209-2. The B&W add a little more to the grittiness of baseball at that time. I doubt I'll ever complete the set, but I will continue to collect these gems as they come along. Attachment 464196Attachment 464197 Attachment 464198Attachment 464199 Attachment 464200Attachment 464201 Attachment 464202Attachment 464203 Attachment 464204Attachment 464205 |
Hey Dan,
As you know I have the complete 1st series. If you are obsessed with completion, T209-2 is not for you. I have focused on just the North Carolina teams for several years now. There are 114 total and I only have 55. I haven't been able to add even 1 new one for many months although I am actively looking. Quite frustrating! Quote:
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Cigarette Cards
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I don't have very many but, when I sold my original collection in 1986 I saved the cigarette cards that I had:
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T206 REF. TRIVIA.....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved?
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...mont350x13.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ...... Piedmont .......... Sovereign ...... Sweet Caporal____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty TUESDAY NITE TRIVIA Name this T206 player. Here's a hint....in the 9th inning of a crucial game at the end of the season, the player of interest was at bat. He hit the ball very hard to Right Field. The following controversial Umpire's call as to whether it was fair or foul resulted in his team losing the game and the Pennant. And, his name is not Fred Merkle :) The 1st guy with the correct answer will be rewarded with a T206 card. To quote Ringo Starr: "It Don't Come Easy". I'll be surprised if someone quickly identifies this player. I look forward to your responses. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Is it Ed Abbaticchio?
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T206 REF. TRIVIA....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved?
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king11.....congratulations, you are the TRIVIA KING tonite. Email me.... tedzan11@comcast.net ....and, we'll talk about the T206 that I will send you. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...cchioSGC35.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...chioSGC35b.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Thank you!
Hooray! Who knew that obsessive reading about the 1908 pennant race could be so useful and rewarding?
Thanks so much, Ted, for your generosity and your fun question. I have learned so much from you here on Net54, and I deeply appreciate your generosity - both for the card and for all of the research you have shared. Thank you. |
Nice job Ted.
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T206 REF. TRIVIA....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved
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Yes indeed, the 1908 National League contest was one of the great ones. It came down to 3 teams at the end of the season....Cubs, Pirates, and Giants. And, the Cubs prevailed.... as a consequence of the controversial call of Abbaticchio's drive down the Right-Field line, and the Fred Merkle controversial base-running mistake, respectively. Check-out the SABR biography of Ed Abbaticchio, it is very interesting.....https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/ed-abbaticchio/ Thank you, king11, for all your kind words. TED Z T206 Reference . |
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It's been a little while since we've updated or questioned the current Old Mill checklist. Here is a list of my current differences from my checklist and why. I'd post scans, but have been having some issues where I can't see my pictures but some others can. The problem came out of nowhere. I changed nothing on my end. PRINT GROUP ONE - 150/350 SERIES Joe Birmingham (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 4) (SGC shows 2) Fred Clarke - Batting (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 3) (SGC shows 2) Bob Ganley (Should not be on this list, being an elite 11) Cy Seymour - Batting (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 0) (SGC shows 1) Patrick Romolo posted a scan recently, also. PRINT GROUP TWO - 350 ONLY SERIES Josh Clark (Should be removed) (Both Pop Reports Show Zero) Unless a scan can be confirmed. T206Resource shows as confirmed, but I question it. Chief Myers - Fielding (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 13) (SGC shows 8) |
T206 Reference......
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I have Imageevent host all my scans. I have never had any problems posting my scans. OK, it has been 3 years since I last updated that OLD MILL checklist in this main T206 REFERENCE thread. If you check-out my T206 Checklist Thread.... T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists I think you will find it's OLD MILL checklist is up-to-date. Here is the OLD MILL excerpt from it...... http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...seblue50xb.jpg To date....311 subjects (Major Leaguers) have been confirmed. They are listed here with respect to their T206 series. 150/350 Series..................125 subjects Abbaticchio (brown sleeves) Alperman Ames (portrait) Ball (New York) Bates Beaumont Bell (hands over head) Bender (portrait) Bergen (bat) Birmingham Bowerman Bradley (portrait) Bransfield Bridwell (portrait-no cap) Bresnahan (portrait) M. Brown (portrait) Camnitz (arms folded) Chance (red portrait) Chase (pink portrait) Chase (white cap) Chesbro Cicotte Clarke (portrait) Clarke (with bat) JJ Clarke Cobb (green) Cobb (bat on shoulder) Conroy (fielding) Coveleski Crandall (no cap) Crawford (throwing) Criss George Davis (Chicago) Harry Davis (A's) Delehanty (Washington) Donlin (seated) Donovan (portrait) Doolin Dougherty (portrait) Durham Evers (portrait) Ferris Flick Gibson Gilbert Goode Griffith (portrait) Hahn Hemphill Herzog (New York) Hinchman (Cleveland) Isbell Jacklitsch Jennings (portrait) Johnson (portrait) F. Jones (portrait) F. Jones (hands at hips) Jordan (portrait) Joss (portrait) Keeler (portrait) Keeler (bat) Killian (pitching) Kleinow (bat) Kling Konetchy (glove high) Lajoie (portrait) Lajoie (throwing) Lake (New York) Leach (portrait) Leifield (pitching) Liebhardt Lobert Lumley Magee (portrait) Manning (bat) Marquard (hands at side) Mathewson (portrait) Mathewson (white cap) McGraw (portrait-no cap) McGraw (pointing) McIntyre (Brooklyn) McQuillan (ball in hand) Merkle (portrait) Murphy (throwing) Nicholls (hands on knees) Niles Oldring (fielding) O'Leary (portrait) Overall (portrait) Owen Parent Pastorius Powell Ritchey Rucker (portrait) Schlei (catching) Schmidt (throwing) Seymour (batting) Sheckard (no glove) Shipke F. Smith (Chicago) Spade Stahl (no glove) Steinfeldt (portrait) Stone Stovall (portrait) Sullivan L Tannehill (Chicago) Tenney Tinker (portrait) Tinker (hands on knees) Turner Waddell (portrait) Waddell (throwing) Wagner (bat on left) Wallace Walsh Weimer Doc White (portrait) Wilhelm (hands at chest) Williams Willis (portrait) Wiltse (portrait-no cap) CYoung (portrait) CYoung (bare hand) 350-only Series..................76 subjects Abbott Anderson Atz Batch Beck Bender (trees) Blackburne Bliss Brain Brown (Washington) Burke Burns Bush Campbell Casey Collins (A's) Congalton Cravath Cree Dahlen (Brooklyn) Dineen Joe Doyle (hands over head) Dubuc Dunn (Baltimore) Dunn (Brooklyn) Easterly Egan Elberfeld (portrait-Washington) Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Flanagan Freeman Fromme Gasper Graham (Boston) Hallman Hannifan Hartsel Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hofman Hoffman (Providence) Hulswitt Jackson Kelley Kisinger Kleinow (New York-catching) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Kruger Lavender Livingstone McCormick Milligan Myers (fielding) Oakes Oberlin Parent Pfeister (seated) Purtell Quillen Rhoades (arm extended) Scott Smith (Buffalo) F. Smith (white cap) Stanage Stephens Sweeney (Boston) J. Tannehill (Washington) Taylor Thomas Titus White (Buffalo) Wilson Wright Zimmerman 350/460 series..................58 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Harry Davis (A's) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake, St. Louis (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifeld (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) Nichols (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Doc White (Chicago-pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (throwing) Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) CYoung (glove) 460-only Series..................46 subjects Abbaticchio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (follow thru) Bergen (catching) Bescher (hands over head) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (hands over head) Camnitz (arm at side) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore Duffy Larry Doyle (portrait) Ford Frill Gandil Geyer Herzog (Boston) Howell (hand at waist) Hummel Lake, St. Louis (ball) Latham Marquard (pitching) McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove at hip) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (batting) Overall (blue sky) Payne Pfeffer Schaefer (Washington) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (bat) Schulte (back view) Seymour (portrait) Sheckard (glove) Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tannehill (Chicago) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wheat Wiltse (portrait-cap) Six Super-Prints Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Evers (Chicago-yellow sky) Mathewson (dark cap) TED Z . |
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It's got to be some setting somewhere. I have a dedicated Microsoft web server, along with Microsoft SQL with GoDaddy. I don't have any issues with other websites or direct links to pictures. But when I add that link in a post, it doesn't show up in the preview or the post for me to see it, but supposedly other users are able to see the pictures, because they comment on them. But they don't show up for me. So I can't even check for error's before posting. I even tried different browsers. It's an odd issue, probably my computer. I had a similar problem years ago when I was hosting my own web servers in my house. I couldn't see pictures or load a web page if I tried to view it directly on that web server, but if I loaded the same page on my desktop, I could see everything. It ended up being a setting on the web server IIS. Internet connections, along with Server and Microsoft software updates, got too expensive, so now I just pay $250 a month with GoDaddy, and can run unlimited websites and databases, along with unlimited emails. |
T206 REFERENCE, Theories, Surveys, etc.
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Ron I was wondering if you had a chance to try Imageevent for displaying your scans ? About a year ago, my computer had a complicated problem which prevented me from posting my scans from them. I called their help desk in California. I was on the phone with them for 40 minutes, and their guy guided me thru several procedures till we finally solved the problem. I was quite impressed with their service. Incidentally, their annual fee is very reasonable. Good Luck, TED Z T206 Reference . |
A question that has been going through my pea sized brain for years, and I am sure it has been answered...why did Jefferson Burdick name the t206 cards t206 and not t205, since they came first (1909 - 1911)? Why aren't t205s (1911) t206s instead? He or no one else cared to keep the sets chronological for some reason I am missing? Just asking.
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Here's a Birmingham, it's in rough shape but it's an Old Mill. Attachment 477053 |
T206 REFERENCE.....interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...mont350x13.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...mont150x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ..... Piedmont ........ Sweet Caporal .......... EPDG_______The "House" that created these Tobacco cards______UZIT ................ Hindu ....... American Beauty I have always been fascinated by the Joe Doyle Nat'L card and the T207 Chester "Red" Hoff cards. I've never owned the Doyle Nat'L card; however, I have handled 2 of them over these past 14 years in the process of ascertaining their legitimacy. One of them was legitimate. The other one was a FAKE, as indicated by a very subtle minute flaw. Anyhow, both them started pitching for the NY Highlanders. Both only 5' 9" and both had only 5-year careers. Here's where they differ....Joe Doyle lived to age 66, Chet Hoff lived to the grand old age of 107. Regarding their BB cards...... The Joe Doyle Nat'L card is the scarcest T206 card with only 9 of them (or perhaps 10) that are known (as of this date). The Chet Hoff card is by no means a rare card; however, it is one of the tougher cards to find in the T207 set. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e887999e_c.jpg------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...etHoffT207.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...tHoffT207b.jpg Stay tuned for more on this subject. TED Z . |
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Your T207 Hoff is a great looking card, and the Hoff card is one of the nicer portraits in the set. The one I have is my only T207 Cycle, and it has the added bonus of Buck Barker scribbling on its back as well. All of this makes it one of my T207 favorites.
Brian |
Is this the thread for general T206 discussion/questions? Because I wanted to talk about Hindu Browns.
As I put together my Excel master tracker for my portraits project, and as I did my research on the different backs, I obviously came to understand that Hindu Brown was the toughest back for the 150 series, and I'd have to track down a lot of tough HoF in the Hindu back. However, I don't think I appreciated just how scarce some of these backs actually are. Today I was taking a look through ebay just to see what was listed and what has been sold in the last 3 months in the Hindu Brown department, and let me tell you, its not a lot at all. 21 total sales in the last 3 months 12 cards currently listed for sale They are still more populous than Carolina Brights, Broad Leaf, Lenox, Drum, and Uzit, but not that much more. Of the 21 sales noted above, it was actually less than 21 unique subjects, because there were multiple Griffith and Clarkes sold. For the purposes of my master portrait project, I created 3 groups of backs: All Piedmonts + SweetCaps (except Piedmont 42), then AB, Cycle, EPDG, Old Mill, Polar Bear, Sovereign, Tolstoi and P42, and the third group of Hindu Brown/Red, Carolina Brights, Broad Leaf, Drum, Lenox and Uzit. I initially thought it might have been wrong to group the Brown Hindu in with that 3rd "ultra rare" group, but the more I think about it, the more I think that is appropriate at this point, given their availability. I put together a combined PSA + SGC Pop report for the portraits back in June/July, and the combined populations of Hindu Brown range from 9 (O'Leary) to 38 (WaJo) with an average of about 20. What is interesting is that if you compare the Hindu Brown totals to a back that is perceived to be less scarce like Tolstoi, it is quite interesting. There are currently 93 Tolstois listed on ebay (I didnt check each one, but it looks like this count is close), and there were 54 Tolstois sold in the last 3 months. When you dig into pop reports, I have 54 possible portraits in a Tolstoi back, with pops ranging from 1 (Rossman) to 44 (Chance Yellow and Crandall w/Cap), with an average population of 14. So on average, a Tolstoi back will be more rare than a Brown Hindu for the portrait subjects, but there are more Tolstois on the market than Brown Hindus. Using the old multipliers for pricing, if I remember right the Tolstoi was around 3x and the Brown Hindu was around 14x in Scot Reader's 2012 update. As of now, I believe the complete Tolstoi checklist is 255 cards, with another 59 that are possible/probable. The Hindu Brown checklist is 136 cards. There is no way to directly compare them, since no subject with a Brown Hindu back also appears with a Tolstoi back. Curious to hear thoughts on this |
T206 REFERENCE.....interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff
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Chet Hoff Hoff made his big league debut in September 1911, the Highlanders were playing at Hilltop Park in the Washington Heights section of Manhattan. In his second major league game, Hoff, a 20-year-old left-hander fresh off the Westchester County sandlots was summoned in relief against the Detroit Tigers. Chet recalled it 80 years later....."the batter fouled off two -- the first two strikes were fastballs. The 3rd strike I threw him was a fast curve. It was a perfect strike over the plate and he looked at it. But at that time I didn't know who he was, no more than the man in the moon, until the next morning I picked up The New York Journal. The big red headlines in the paper says Hoff Strikes Out Ty Cobb. I couldn't believe it at first. It was the biggest thrill of my Baseball career." I acquired this Hoff autograph back in the 1990's. The signature is well written, so he probably signed it many years ago. I got it from a known autograph collector in the hobby. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ogchethoff.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...McLeanT207.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ecruitT207.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Hi James, I have 254 Tolstoi's confirmed the same list as t206resource I think it's actually 253 (I believe Bender with trees is a PSA flip error) which one do you have confirmed that's not confirmed on this list? Bender with trees is confirmed 8-22-22 https://www.t206resource.com/Tolstoi%20Checklist.html |
Reprising my TOLSTOI information......
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg When American Lithographic started printing the 350 Series T206's, they introduced new T-brands: AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CAROLINA BRIGHTS, CYCLE, DRUM, EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and TOLSTOI . TOLSTOI print runs started circa early 1910. Continued to the end of the T206 press runs (Spring 1911). To date, 255 subjects have been confirmed. Most TOLSTOI cards are not tough to find. However, certain 350-only subjects printed early in 1910 must have been short-printed, as they are very tough to find. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ackTOLSTOI.jpg TOLSTOI checklist (255 subjects) confirmed. They are listed here according to their respective T206 series. 350-only Series...................146 subjects Abstein Anderson Arellanes Atz Barbeau Barger Barry (A's) Bender (trees)............. ? Bescher (portrait) Blackburne Bliss Brain Brashear Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Burns Bush Byrne Campbell Carrigan Casey Chappelle Charles Clark Clymer Collins (Milwaukee) Collins (A's) Cree Cross Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Demmitt (New York American) Dineen Doolan (fielding) Dorner Downey (fielding) Downs Joe Doyle (NY) Dubuc Jack Dunn Joe Dunn Dygert Easterly Engle Evans Ferguson Fiene (throwing) Fletcher Ganzel Gasper Graham (St Louis) Gray Grimshaw Groom Hartsell Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hoffman (Providence) Hoffman (St Louis AL) Hofman Howard (Chicago NL) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hunter Jones (Detroit) Kelley Killian (portrait) Kisinger Kleinow (New York-catching) Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh LaPorte Lattimore Lavender Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Maloney Marquard (portrait) Mattern McAleese McBride McCormick McElveen McGinnity McIntyre (Detroit) McLean Merritt Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Mitchell (Cincinnati) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Chicago NL) Mowrey Murray (bat) Myers (batting) Myers (fielding) Nattress Nichols (bat) Oakes O'Brien O'Neill Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phillippe Purtell Puttman Quillen Quinn Randall Rhoades (arm extended) Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Ritter Rossman Rudolph Schmidt (portrait) Schreck Scott Shannon Sharpe Slagle Smith (Chicago, white cap) Smith (Buffalo) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Starr Stanage Stephens Strang Summers Taylor Thomas Unglaub Warhop Willett Wilson Zimmerman 350/460 series...................57 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Harry Davis (A's) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake, St. Louis (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifeld (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Doc White (Chicago-pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (throwing) Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) CYoung (glove) 460-only Series......…..........46 subjects Abbaticchio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (follow thru) Bergen (catching) Bescher (hands over head) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (hands over head) Camnitz (arm at side) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore Duffy Larry Doyle (portrait) Ford Frill Gandil Geyer Herzog (Boston) Howell (hand at waist} Hummel Lake, St. Louis (ball) Latham Marquard (pitching) McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove at hip) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (batting) Overall (blue sky) Payne Pfeffer Schaefer (Washington) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (bat) Schulte (back view) Seymour (portrait) Sheckard (glove) H. Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tannehill (Chicago) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wheat Wiltse (portrait-cap) Six Super-Prints Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Evers (Chicago-yellow sky) Mathewson (dark cap) This is a work is stillin progress. TED Z . |
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