Sad but true - collecting addiction
 

Just read this story, which I guess highlights some of the perils of getting a little too addicted when it comes to our chosen hobby:

Ex-federal investigator lost job after baseball-card addiction led him to moonlight as Amazon and Uber driver

Sean Nelson’s collecting led him to financial ruin and almost blew up his marriage; now he has been sentenced for using his government car for sideline gigs.

It’s a cautionary tale for anyone whose collecting habit has maybe gotten a bit out of hand.

A former federal agent blew up his career after getting caught using his government car to moonlight as an Amazon and Uber driver to help sustain his baseball-card addiction.

Sean M. Nelson, 44, of Mesa, Ariz., was sentenced this week to two years probation and ordered to pay back $134,000 the government argued he had misappropriated by working his sideline gigs while on the job.

Nelson had been a special agent for the Department of Homeland Security for more than a decade in Arizona when his finances and marriage began falling into ruin due to his out-of-control habit of buying baseball cards, court documents said.

Psychologists classify uncontrollable collecting as a type of behavioral addiction, similar to compulsive gambling, eating, video game playing, shopping or sex addiction. An addiction to collecting could manifest itself in the buying of anything from fine art to model trains.

Starting in 2019, Nelson began working on the side delivering packages for Amazon and driving passengers for services like Uber and Lyft to help pay off his spiraling credit card debts, the documents said.

The financial strain from his collecting habit put heavy pressure on his marriage and led him and his wife to attend couple’s counseling, the records showed.

Federal prosecutors say that over the next two years, Nelson, a father of four, regularly worked his other jobs while he was on the clock as an investigator, during which time he frequently used his government-issued car to deliver packages and ferry ride-share passengers. He also had the government pay for the gas.

He was charged in October and pleaded guilty right away to a charge of theft of government property, court records show. As part of his plea, Nelson agreed to resign from his post.

“As a result of the conviction, Mr. Nelson has forfeited much of his salary during the time period of his on-the-job criminal activity, and as a federal felon he’ll never lawfully possess or use a firearm ever again,” said Gary Restaino, the U.S. attorney for Arizona. “His dereliction of duty was a grave disservice to his hard-working law enforcement colleagues and the taxpayers alike.”

Before joining the Department of Homeland Security in 2010, Nelson had previously worked as a federal air marshal, a federal and Arizona prison guard and had served in the Air Force, during which he spent time in Iraq.

“No one knew the hobby of collecting would turn into an addiction,” his mother wrote in a letter to the judge. “He is willing to pay the fine and has the support of all of his family. He has already lost his job and his pension… . Please do not punish him any more.”

A message left with Nelson’s attorney wasn’t immediately returned.

it's only cardboard for crying out loud!!!

That takes it to a new level.
.

Sad but true
 

There are some screwed up people in the world.

I have two different show customers literally tell me that if it wasn't for cards they would have nothing to live for. Another told a friend of mine if he couldn't go to shows he would rather die.

Some people have problems.

For as much as you may love the cards the cards don't know you own them.

I understand. I've been a collector most of my life. For me, without God's help, it can turn into a compulsion. The mind can always seem to find a "logical" reason to pursue a collectible that has struck your fancy. If left unchecked, the mind will create an illusion that the said collectible must not be lost to another! You can get so worked up about it, and believe your collection would be so inferior without buying the object.

The insidious part is that ONCE YOU BUY IT, the feelings of elation almost immediately vaporize, and you're left with an unspeakable emptiness. The cure, so to speak?

Begin looking for something else.

As I said, I understand, but with that, as Leon Luckey aptly surmised, "That takes it to a new level." I'm sure it has hit him as a ton of bricks what he has lost. Hopefully, his family will forgive him and stand with him. Yes, he needs to get some counseling. However, right now he has to pay back a lot of money, and find a job unlike what he was doing. At 44, this will not be easy.

He'll probably need to sell some of the things he collected, but with what's happened to him, he may not want to look at them any more, or at least not for a long time.

This is a sad case, and one in which we should all look at closely, AS WELL AS LOOK AT OURSELVES. I know I sure am.

I will qualify one thing. There are many things I've purchased / won at auction for which my elation lasted long after I got the item in the mail. If one of those things comes to mind, I get all excited again. THAT'S WHEN i KNOW I REALLY WANTED THE ITEM IN A POWERFUL WAY, AND HAVE NO REGRETS. You just gotta be sure before you buy or fight for an item in an auction. Nevertheless, again, this is a very sad case, and illustrates in a horrifying way what can happen if you allow your possessions, or "gotta have it desirables", possess you. --- Brian Powell

I love that this guy's life is ruined because he used the "company car" to make some Amazon deliveries while "on the clock." Ostensibly, he was otherwise doing a satisfactory job during his tenure or he would have been fired. Meanwhile, there are guys blatantly stealing from cars and stores in California with ZERO risk of consequences, and online fraudsters that are stealing millions from citizens with ZERO consequences. We don't have the resources to deal with those wrongdoers. But prosecuting a moonlighter with a shopping addiction is a public necessity.

This guy's actions are probably no different than about a million other US employees. If any other employer had discovered their employee was engaging in the same conduct, he would just be let go or given a written warning. But this guy, because it is a federal job, has his life ruined. Seems like an overreach to me. Termination plus an agreement not to seek further government employment seems like a more appropriate punishment.

I always used to read about women with shopping addictions who had closets full of 100s of pairs of expensive shoes and outfits they had to buy yet have never worn once. I think collecting cards can easily lapse for some people into that.

The dopamine rush of the chase and the "win" [such an odd term for agreeing to pay more for something than anyone else; a "win"; does anyone say I "won" this new house?]

We used to have people on the board, quite a few of them in fact, waxing poetic about the smell of a certain catalog arriving at their front door. And the feeling of hearing it hit the ground on their steps. Yes, there are signs of addiction/compulsive behavior all over this board, whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

Many of us have had the feeling of something arriving at the house and (a) having no recollection with it is and then (b) opening it and wondering why in the world. . . .

I will say I have had a problem before. Back when those darn serial numbered and different shiny cards came out I HAD to have them all. Seriously I would spend hours everyday trying to track down ALL the Wade Boggs versions.

Luckily for me I realized how beyond crazy it was. I then sold all them and never looked back. Now if I see one super cheap I will buy it but no more having to have anything.

There are at least 2 members on here with a serious problem. I told both to never even consider buying from me again. I don't mind waiting for a payment once in a while but when it takes several days to weeks with every purchase there is a problem.

Addiction is a disease, whether it's heroin, gambling or baseball cards. Obviously this guy made some huge mistakes, but I'm not without compassion for him.

You know you are in too deep when it gets to this level of bottom of the barrel collecting. I might just have to start moonlighting as a federal investigator.

Brian

Collecting and addiction
 

I think Brian really nailed it when he described the problem with all addictions when he wrote:

"The mind can always seem to find a "logical" reason to pursue a collectible [or any desire for that matter] that has struck your fancy. If left unchecked, the mind will create an illusion that the said collectible must not be lost to another! You can get so worked up about it,and believe your collection would be so inferior without buying the object. The insidious part is that ONCE YOU BUY IT, the feelings of elation almost immediately vaporize, and you're left with an unspeakable emptiness."

Brian's words remind me so much of a family member, who is addicted to gambling. The guilt, the lies, the loss, the frustration. It is so painful to see him struggle after he has fallen back into his addiction.

I agree that if you start to feel that deep feeling of regret after making purchases, that it is a good sign to question whether or not you are addicted to the hobby.

I hope that no one here is struggling with it.

Best regards,

Joe

Hopefully the New Card Raffle Set Break thing is just a fad and not commonplace.

Not true, at least in LA. The LAPD and LASD have been doing a great job running down these gangs of store busters. There have been a ton of arrests of the raiders and the fences buying the stolen merchandise.

One of the things I find most concerning about modern card breaks and some of the forms of sale on platforms like whatnot is that they are indistinguishable from casino games. I've seen whatnot sellers use gambling devices to award prizes, and all of the random slot assignment programs that breakers use are indistinguishable from slot machines, which are just random number generators with bells and whistles.

Some might consider Net54 to be a gateway drug. When I am on the site there are cool cards I didn't even know existed (ex. Leon's E221 PCL Team cards). There are an array of collecting niches (ex. pennants) in the hobby that collectors here pursue, but could be an endless rabbithole for some.

Gambling has never been a fad. If there's any kind of a pay off possible it will always be a thing.

Never fails, every time I go into a gas station and go inside to pay, to use up some of the cash in my pocket, I'm stuck for 5 to 10 minutes in line, waiting for somebody ahead of me to pick out a stack of scratch off tickets, having the clerk scan another stack of tickets, while also feverishly scratching off another stack of tickets.

:(

Well said.

It’s worrisome....

I'm there, and happy to be!

Re: Sad but true - collecting addiction
 

The story may have had a happier ending if he was buying pre war material. But I suspect it was modern crap.

I find many people have addictive personalities. I think we all have our fair share of vices. I enjoy the occasional Cigar and Scotch, A nice glass of Red, and occasionally dabble with the horses. I think the key is knowing your limits.

I had noticed that around the holidays, I was partaking in the occasional scotch, much more frequently, as a result I stopped drinking all together in the New Year. I'm reserving it for special occasions. I do have to say, on that end, I feel notably better.

Concerning cardboard, I will admit, I enjoy the chase just as much as I enjoy getting the card in hand. I love what this hobby has to offer, the people that I met through it have definitely left an impression. That being said, I'm not driving myself into debt, trying to get the next card.

Moderation, is key, with everything in life. This person, clearly has a problem, and it's unfortunate that it spiraled out of control.

Yes, he was wrong and he is paying the price, but the rabid collector, still raging inside me, can understand the logic: A few gallons of gov't gas and I can get that PSA9 Greg Maddox RC that I simply cannot live without. It's a bad place to be.

The sports collecting hobby, or any hobby really, can be an attraction to people with tendencies towards addiction.

I know many sports collectors who are alcoholics in recovery.

It seems the thrills of the hobby can be somewhat of a replacement or placeholder for the addiction stimulation

Sorry Baseball Cards is like Alcohol " One is not enough, but One is to many"

I mean, I’d rather my tax dollars pay for this dudes gas at his side hustle than most things they spend my tax dollars on. Federal felonies and termination of his constitutional liberties seems awfully harsh.

He should have not done the Uber and just emptied his 401K and taken some loans to afford more cards.

I realize there would be no way to accurately calculate this.

There are a certainly a nonzero number of people within our hobby for whom sports cards have become an addiction. I wonder what percentage of these people are primarily addicted to the random chance element of breaking open wax. Whether one does this personally or uses a "breaker" to open the wrappers, the end result is the same.

Pay X dollars, get Y random cards. In this respect, breaking is really no different than gambling.

Never buy anything with money you dont have,always with money you have ,,my dad

Me too. There's always something new. Recently for me, Sweet Caporal pins.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...in%20Young.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...%20Collins.jpg

SNL to the rescue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3ZJKN_5M44

I would like to know more about the facts.

If the alleged “crime” is limited to an Uber driver’s use of a federally funded vehicle then this prosecution seems like a gross misallocation of federal resources i.e. waste of taxpayer money compared to the violence and theft that is excused these days. At least this guy was providing a service.

+1

If any of the lawyers know how to look up a case, there is some detail here that identifies the case number:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-az/pr/f...d-theft-agency

I'm guessing there must be a list of allegations identifying a lot more detail about his misdeeds.

Yeah, I read it. He worked a side gig for Amazon, Uber and Lyft with his government car. Certainly not admirable but a minor offense compared to what is not prosecuted these days in major cities. At least he was providing a service. Not a typical hobby fraudster.

As someone who served our country he gets slack from me.

Can we go after the unproductive, under qualified, redundant, government employees that hide in their cubicles and collect a paycheck with full retirement instead?

Or let's look at Congressional shysters from both sides of the aisle that get rich on insider legislation information in the stock market. Can we toss a few of those in jail?

Don't get me started...

I had it happen to a friend of mine. He was a banker, good guy. I sold him cards at my shop and when I started my ad agency my partner needed the cash to fund his half of the seed money. It was like $5000 and all the banks wouldn't do it because my partner's credit really was in the toilet. My friend said, it's not that much, I know you, I can make the loan. He got addicted to busting wax. Lost his job and family and ended up in jail. Last time I saw him he was working at Lowes...nothing wrong with working at Lowes, but he was on track to a good career before wax busting got its hooks in him.

According to the article, he started small using the government car for side gigs; as time went on, working the side gigs became a full-time job while collecting a government paycheck. Small potatoes perhaps, but he was not doing his job. He only hurt himself and the taxpayers.

"Federal prosecutors say that over the next two years, Nelson, a father of four, regularly worked his other jobs while he was on the clock as an investigator, during which time he frequently used his government-issued car to deliver packages and ferry ride-share passengers. He also had the government pay for the gas."

I heard an interesting factoid the other day. The summary is that for any company, the number of people actually doing the work is the square root of the total number of employees. So if you've got 10 people in the office, 3 do all the work. If you have 1000, then 30 do all the work. The rest just collect their paychecks.

Based on the companies I worked for, I would say that's about right.

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Also known as the Pareto Principle.

Pretty adam

According to the link, the guy was doing his side-gigs on the government clock. That's about as obvious a no-no as it gets. Not really moonlighting as suggested in the OP--at least as I understand the term. Doesn't help that he was supposed to be working a job protecting our homeland security--not a good optic.
Seems almost certain he was caught up in the modern card frenzy and pack/box busting. Just buying specific cards shouldn't be the financial end of you, as I assume you could sell off when you need money and at least recoup the bulk of your purchase, unless you're a horrible speculator who always grossly overpays. More likely he bought his "spots" for those Brady, Luca and other rookie shiny 1 of 1s or whatever passes for scarce gotta haves these days, and always came up empty. Or he bought pallets of unopened material in search for these same chase cards and ended up with tens of thousands of worthless cards akin to the 1988 Donruss junk wax.

An offshoot, I guess. The Pareto Principle is basically the 80/20 rule, which is also true I think. For every company I worked for (except maybe Burger King, I didn't keep track back then) 80% of our revenues came from 20% of our clients.

The Pareto Rule applies outside of work too. Probably your top 20% of cards make up 80% of the value of your collection.

By the way, to be more precise on the square-root rule, the top few do HALF the work, not all. So in my example of a 1000 person company, the top 30 would do half the total work, the 970 would do the other half. So not freeloaders, just not as valuable.

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I had no issues with getting out of control with collecting until the start of the insert era. I remember as they started making and inserting different versions of cards (gold, silver, bronze), then serial numbered cards, then autographed cards, and then those shiny refractor cards, etc., I found myself wanting to get each of everything. Before that, cards were basic and cheaper. It was easy to get caught up into it, as the products were getting so much nicer and rarer. The worst thing I did was to start using my credit card more than I should have. It never got way out of control, but I realized it was just too much. At that point, I stopped collecting cards and moved to game used memorabilia. It really isn't that difficult to get sucked in (I was 33 at the time). Not everyone has the right mindset and control to recognize when to say enough is enough. I'm just glad I did.

Yes, addiction can have serious consequences, and we shouldn't make light of it. People on this thread have spoken eloquently about the effects of card-buying addiction.

It's a shame it happened to that guy, but it is not that surprising it did.

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+1 on everything you say.

100%

"and as a federal felon he’ll never lawfully possess or use a firearm ever again" should have read
"and as a federal felon, he’ll never lawfully possess a baseball card ever again"

That part struck me as an odd flex. Plenty of people shouldn't own guns, but I don't think is guy is the type that people are concerned about.

Just some added LOOK AT ME they threw in there as all felons have their gun rights taken away. Some can later get them back.

From Homeland Security to federal felon. Quite the fall from grace.

He misused $134,000 in taxpayer money and some people want to justify or excuse that behavior, I just don’t get it.

No excuse for that behavior, and he should be fired for his egregious actions. But let's not stop there, there are so many people in government wasting our taxpayer dollars or taking advantage of their position it's disgusting. Let's remind them they work for us not the other way around.

Which post did this?

Hi greg correct he was a thief

This and it has only gotten worse in the last 3 years.

My fear about gambling in sports has split over in card collecting. It seems like everything is a craps shoot.

Gambling has a strong hold on most of the sports industry as a whole right now. Every sporting event you listen to on the radio or watch on TV is loaded with sports book commercial advertising. They got them all warmed up with fantasy for a few years then statewide nationwide off sure Bookie/Betting. Now the vintage card industry with breaks ugh.

It's absurd how almost taboo sports gambling was for years upon years. And now it's launched at your face at any given moment, because of the absurd amount of revenue and taxes that it generates. You used to have to know a Bookie, nowadays not so much.

I can understand looking forward to a show, or the anticipation of what deals you may score at the next show. I could also understand if someone uses it as a way to get out of the house, or as a social gathering. But saying they'd die without one is extreme.

Funny that the addiction discussion so far has primarily focused on breaks . . . . and not aspects of prewar.

My opinion on that is because if you get addicted to prewar cards(it is easy to do) they are easy to resell with only a 25-50 percent loss. Modern and group breaks are like throwing cash out the window of a moving vehicle. Once you spend the cash there is no way of getting it back.

Breaks and most modern wax are like scratch offs or lotto, people like the thrill of the potential win rather than the actual card itself.

I simply don't know how people keep up with modern. I've lost track at how many "Rookies" are available for Julio Rodriguez at this point. Probably over 100 by now!

I've seen the modern breaking stuff. Even dabbled in it. Yes, it's like playing a slot machine.

But there is a gambling aspect and an obsessive compulsive aspect to a lot of prewar collectors as well.

Most people who "collect" anything tend to fall on the OC side of the fence, which can lead to poor financial decisions if you let the Monkey on your back.

Somewhat, though I have seen some addiction in prewar as well. Especially t206.

Completing the monster can become its own monster.

I guess nowadays, some might even argue that submitting to a TPG isn’t all that different from gambling. Come on baby…daddy needs a 7!!!

For many it’s that thrill/hit that fills their itch. For others it’s for the love of collecting ! PSA dominates again, fills both itches. The collector itch and the gambler/profiteer itch. Nothing wrong with either, continued pure brilliance of the Pop Report and Registry.

Damn! Snake eyes!

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/c1AAA...dn/s-l1600.jpg

What are you saying? Who do you want to remind; the Marines, Army, Navy, Homeland Security, ATF, FBI, Secret Service, the admin clerk sitting behind a desk, the lady helping you fill out an application for Social Security? Specifically, who do you think is wasting the taxpayer dollars and who do you want to remind?

The federal government is the largest employer in the United States. Yes, there are issues. Yes, there are individuals who commit crimes. Federal employees come from our society and I think are very representative of American society as a whole. I don't want to guess what you're implying, so I won't. But maybe be a little more specific when you make such allegations so as not to insult every employee of the federal government.

A bit of a stretch going from someone misusing their position to "But let's not stop there, there are so many people in government wasting our taxpayer dollars or taking advantage of their position it's disgusting. Let's remind them they work for us not the other way around."

I served 30 years in the Navy and 13 years civil service with the Navy. At first, my reaction was like yours. Then I took a breath and realized his choice of words and how he phrased them weren’t the best, but it does exist in many areas of our society. However, not all are bad and it’s not good to group everyone in the same category.

I think he may be referring more to our elected political officials, who are all actual federal employees as well, more so than the everyday workers and people who actually do run our country and make sure it continues properly working and functioning on a daily basis. Meanwhile the elected politicians generally do nothing more than point fingers back and forth, and accuse each other of only looking out for themselves, and generally getting nothing good done on behalf of the MAJORITY OF ALL U.S. CITIZENS.

And as for the person this thread was written about, there is no denying his guilt and that he is responsible and has an obligation to society for what he did. But it is also equally apparent, and true, that he suffers from an actual mental illness, which also needs to be taken into consideration. I do not know how best such a situation should be addressed and handled, but I do realize that our government, laws, and people, often do not want to acknowledge such people exist and the real issues they have, but cannot always deal with solely on their own. And those in power and control seem to more often than not fail to recognize the actual mental illness factors in place, simply dismiss these people and abandon them to a criminal justice system that is ill equipped to handle them and often ends up subjecting them to very inhumane treatment and consideration. In the end, it is very similar to many other situations in our society, like for example how many people/groups treat and look at people who are say gay or lesbian. Those people that are gays or lesbians didn't necessarily volunteer and choose to be that way, but that sure doesn't stop many others from condemning and looking down on them, and even criminalizing and punishing them as much as they can get away with. We humans can be such wonderful, understanding and forgiving people, can't we?

Well said Bob,

My little rant was not directed at hard working, honest, federal employees nor current and former members of the armed services, many of which have made the ultimate sacrifice for our country including my own family members.

Congress on the other hand, with their stellar 18% approval rating, and elected officials who prioritize their own interests over the good of the country disgust me. Why don't we start at the top and fire every Congress person convicted of a felony and not allow convicted felons to run for one of the highest offices in the country. Let's also go after Congress who profits from pre legislation insider trading for profit. And while we're at it let's make them navigate the wonderful healthcare system we have in this country instead of having their own plan. Or how about the greatest country on earth have a clear, concise, energy plan to provide low cost energy to everyone so folks don't have to decide whether to pay their energy bill or eat. Or dismantle the elitist higher education system so everybody, no matter their socioeconomic position can go to college if they want to.

Let's have Congress, who supposedly work for us, rebuild the rungs on the ladder that they dismantled and allow American Citizens to move from lower class to upper middle class within a generation or two.

I could go on but I'm ranting again and I'd rather talk baseball cards...

I kind of figured you weren't, but saw you were starting to get jumped by some who misread your intentions and were starting to take exception to what they thought you were trying to say. Thought I'd throw in to help explain what I figured you meant from the start. And I'm not putting down anyone that may have taken initial exception to what/how you said what you did. gonefishin is a great guy and member. I think he just misinterpreted what you meant because how you said what you did was unfortunately not necessarily the clearest way to maybe put what you were trying to say into a post.

But I do wish a lot more people would take a moment or two to think before they post a quick response. I get crap all the time from people who give me that TLDR (Too Long, Didn't Read) crap, or accuse me of writing War and Peace novels every time I post. But I do that on purpose to make sure someone just doing a quick read of what I posted can't give me crap by misinterpreting what I said. Which is exactly what another group of forum trolls will then possibly do because they have what I have termed the - ASOAG (Attention Span of a Goldfish) Syndrome. That can also probably be morphed into the - COAG (Comprehension of a Goldfish) Syndrome as well. Let's face it, trying to know exactly what someone is saying from a simple online post is not easy, especially if their grammar and punctuation isn't that great, or their Spellcheck kicks in and they miss an error. You also can't easily tell someone's mood or inflection in their speech while reading something they posted either. Everyone properly using emojis or well-placed LOLs would certainly help to hopefully better explain the tone and intent of some posts. Just like using ALL Caps points to shouting or greater emphasis, or even writing in blue colored scrip or print denotes sarcasm. I know I have typos and initial mistakes in many of my posts as well. And is exactly why I'll often go back and re-read what I originally said to then make corrections.

I know when I am not sure what someone initially intended to mean or say in a post, I will try to ask very serious and civil questions to better understand. It is only when I get a sarcastic or other demeaning response back that I will then respond in kind. There's an old adage among carpenters to always measure twice - and cut just once. The same can definitely be said and applicable for most people who decide to frequent and post in online groups and chat rooms from what I've ever seen and experienced. Think twice, post once!

And again, going back to the person this thread was started over, he really does have a significant mental illness, that should also be factored in and considered. Not defending what he ended up doing, but hope he at least gets some help along the way to deal with his OCD affliction as well.

When I was seeing a counselor, my counselor and I had a couple rounds of her telling me I have an addiction, and I tell her I have made poor choices. My sessions usually end with my counselor blue in the face.

When I am extremely stressed, I make a poor choice because I need a break that isn't generally available any other way. When the stressful situation ends, so do my poor choices. My counselor tells me that's called falling off the wagon. I tell her I don't believe addiction is a disease, and I'm not going to make excuses for my poor choices, I might have addictive tendencies but I'm not addicted.

Thankfully my poor choices have never led to financial issues, health issues, or physical harm.

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Phil - thanks for the clarification.

Bob - thanks for the assist.

Tony - thanks for your lifetime of service to our country.

Case closed, happy Sunday to all.

I wonder what type of cards he was buying. Hopefully not blowing it all on Wander Francos. I used to follow the main baseball card subreddit until this spring I was overwhelmed with posts of 5,000 different people all pulling a 1/1 of Wander. "This is the next '52 Topps Mantle!!".

If he was a pre-war collector then perhaps to pay off that $134K he can sell off some cards quickly at a low-rate to us.

Perhaps the federal government should invest money in pre-war cards.

IMO the first step toward changing any of the things you mention (all of which I agree with, btw) is to get money out of the electoral process. Currently, money buys influence, so those with the most money (and thanks to Citizens United, this now includes money funneled from overseas) have the most influence. We'd see a non-useless legislative branch if the representatives were there for reasons other than personal enrichment.

Amen brother, well said!

Well said to each and all; thank you for your kind words; and thank you too!

Not just on NET54, but on other sites also, I wish a separate topic folder would be created for Government/Politic discussions, where those who like to discuss (positive or negative) can go. We all know how those debates can turn ugly.

This thread was about a guy (he could have been in any job), who abused his position, for the sake of supporting his collecting habits. We can all agree that's not good, no matter what job he was in.

It would be good if we all could stay on topic, but even I have driven of course a time or two, so I get it. I just think when it comes to government/politics, it hits a nerve with many, depending on what or how something is being said. Heck, I have family members who haven't talked in years over it (UGH). I personally don't care to read anything relating to it either, so I will just move on next time.

Sorry Phil for taking your post wrong. My promise is that if I read any future comments relating negatively to government/politics, I will not respond. As we say in the military...Lesson Learned.

Ok, getting ready to watch some NFL Football, so enjoy the rest of your Sunday!

Tony

“There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.”

“All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity.”

--Mark Twain

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."

--Groucho

"In America, anyone can become president. That’s the problem."

"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out."

"The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post 'Thou shalt not steal,' 'Thou shalt not commit adultery,' and 'Thou shalt not lie' in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment."

"Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out."

--George Carlin

“Haven't you noticed that every time the government f-ks up McDonald's has a new sandwich?”

--Bill Burr

Thanks, you've been a great crowd. Enjoy Whitesnake.

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