OT: 3.5 Million Dollar Scam - Pokemon Cards Certified by BBCE
Check out this video. Guy bought a case of Pokemon cards for 3.5 million which was certified by BBCE.
Turns out to be a scam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8lmQ5Ls6bw |
This would make me worried if I had high dollar unopened boxes that are BBCE wrapped. If he can’t authenticate it, then who can?
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pokee
maybe...but cant help that it looks a little staged ??
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BBCE has been involved in a number of scandals over the years, people just chose to turn a blind eye and not talk about it. As long as it's shrink wrapped with a BBCE label, what does it matter what's inside, right? Kinda like PSA and all the altered cards they slabbed that were brought to light a couple of years ago. It's not what's on the inside that counts; it's the authenticator's seal that gives it its value.
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I get the feeling this will send ripples throughout the hobby. Either BBCE made a multi-million dollar mistake or someone is trying to make it look like they were the victim of multi-million dollar fraud.
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I think unopened boxes are fine. People should worry about those UD Esq unopened cases (3 hobby boxes) that might pull LeBron RPA and sold for $1M. Those cases suddenly swim out from no where one by one and we have seen 3 so far on Goldin. The next one in line would be the 86 Fleer case that sold last yr but it has solid evidence of where it came from, so not much of an issue. |
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Definitely not staged. I’ve been following this one for a while and after Logan bought it a lot of ppl on the internet started questioning what they were seeing on the boxes. Steve had no experience with Pokémon he should not have authenticated this box. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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Two threads going at once on this.
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Unopened material has always been a crap shoot. I believe the best way to invest in any sports card is to 1) research the characteristics of the original card, and 2) buy commons from the same set, if possible, and examine them closely. This later step, buying commons, is immensely helpful. I’d personally never buy unopened material.
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GI Joe's are cooler than Pokémon anyways.
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Pokemon Pandemonium. Nah, for a blogger site. Probably already taken and I have never gotten into that.
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Don't know a lot about the back story but Jake and Logan Paul are well known for publicity stunts for the sake of their adoring viewers who pay them millions a year for their social media content. That video seemed staged, overacted and highly produced. It is typical of the Paul brothers to do what seems like outlandish stuff for page views.
Prior to his "paying" 3.5 million for the case it sold months before for 75K...on ebay. It was said it only went for around 75K because those who collect Pokemon knew the case was not good. I highly doubt that Steve Hart was in on this video. It does appear that he simply relied on his knowledge of methods of sealing and what to look for as opposed to irregularities on the case which the Pokemon community was aware of. Here is the background info on it...https://www.pokebeach.com/2021/12/lo...icant-evidence |
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LP got ripped off because he didn't do his homework and also trusted some chump middlemen who had him marked. The chain of custody on the fugazi item is surprisingly clear and the original auction was for suckers only. So many red flags. That video is likely earning him $15K+ per day this week as long as it stays a top trending. So there's no way LP or his lawyers would let him risk owing Steve Hart millions in a lawsuit over it, negating any revenue from the content. Steve really looks bad here and if he was branching out, it's clear he spread himself too thin. The only good news is that it was not a Topps/Fleer/etc vintage product. Hardly anyone on this site gives a crap about Pokemon product but people here have invested (or are invested) in Steve's reputation with sports cards. |
To the people making some inferences that this ordeal is a dramatic ruse, READ MORE THREADS. This has been going on for 2 years. I've been following it from the beginning, because the original flipper, meelypops has a store in Gainesville FL and I've seen him post about the original purchase in early 2020.
Steve tried to authenticate out of his knowledge base, was challenged by real experts in that specific field, and was exposed for certifying a fake. It's that easy. Don't build up straw men to try to explain it away. It happened. You think this meelypops guy would make long videos about how he first purchased the case in Canada and then took it straight to BBCE for their blessing if he knew it was fraudulent? Because people normally play a long con where they incriminate themselves with million hit videos? Nope. He thought it was a true purchase of an undiscovered gem, and was burned along with Steve. Will be interesting to see if anything happens with the original Canadian seller, who has a history of faking these types of items. Would require the Canadian authorities to intervene. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1500649 https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1500869 https://forums.collectors.com/discus...m-pokeman-case https://forums.collectors.com/discus...n-case-updates |
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Steve says this is “What I looked for” as he begins to give his reasons for authenticating the case. ”This tape is aged onto this case. This label too. The same embedded lines of the cardboard from age are in that label.” Someone starts to ask a question, “There’s no evidence of tampering…" (is interrupted by Steve) “One edge would look different” (finishes the question) "...in any way shape or form?” Steve says, “I did my diligence just like I do for a sports case.” This is the part that I have a problem with. Yes, we can agree that the product was out of his knowledge base. But the way he examined the product was the same way he’s going to examine any unopened case (the product inside is irrelevant). He said the tape was aged onto the case. Well, obviously it wasn’t because it had been re-taped. So if he doesn’t know how to tell if tape is actually aged onto a case or not, how many cases has he authenticated that were tampered with? How many wax boxes has he authenticated that were supposedly FASC (from a sealed case)? It doesn’t matter if he’s authenticating a case of 1985 Topps or 2000 (or whatever the year is) Pokemon, the methods for authentication are still the same - he admits that. Y'all can defend him if it makes you feel better about the situation, but he blew it and it didn’t have anything to do with the product he was examining. It had everything to do with his examination methods. |
All I can say after watching that is that Hart and his colleague need to seriously consider salads.
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Anybody who has BBCE stuff is just hosed but honestly you should know better. It looks like the label has wear and the tape is perfect ...lol
This is like pawn stars ....I am sorry the sheep followed and walked into a black hole. |
This will blow over like every other hobby scandal this industry has faced, it’s no big deal in the grand scheme of things. His brand will only gain more acceptance and sell stronger and stronger. Everyone’s cards and unopened boxes will only go up in-value. Any short term decline which there won’t be any will be a massive buying opportunity!
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I also feel sad for the Pokémon community!
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Am I the only one impatiently waiting for Logan and Jake's 15 minutes to be up?
I blame the Kardashians for starting all of this stupid sh*t. No wonder China owns half of America. |
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/m...164818939.html |
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There is not another known 1st Edition '99 base set case (opened or unopened), as far as what has been revealed, that used the '1E' at the end of the product code, and the '1E' was not embedded in the bar code. Also, it seems some of the spacing of the words were different than real examples. If Steve was going to authenticate the "only known" unopened case valued at $3 million at the time, these are things he should have been doing. I have said on the other board that he should have passed on authenticating the box, because he didn't know what the box was supposed to look like. Similarly, there are many cards that PSA should refuse to authenticate that they still choose to, despite not having the background information needed to confirm are unaltered compared to how they were packed out. Many chrome autographed cards have been wiped off due to streaking/fading and either the player has signed them again or a forger has signed them. VERY FEW of any chrome cards that PSA grades need to be authenticated that they were factory original autographs. Same with embedded patches / patch swapping. PSA/BGS etc only confirm the card itself is real, not that the piece of material in the card is the one that was embedded with. Because the 3rd party graders are incompetent or unwilling to consider those as being faked, it calls into question all of their authenticated auto and patch cards. Here's one that's currently being challenged at Goldin: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1502551 Card was graded about 5 years ago based on cert number. Here's a good thread on patch swapping: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...light=swapping There's a nearly 200 page thread on LeBron cards in the same baskeball forum. |
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What turned out to be in the other boxes? Or are those being returned "intact" and someday this happens again with unopened boxes?
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I guess I'm not a part of the Pokemon community because for the life of me I could not see putting out $3.5M for a case of those cards. I need to open my eyes and see what the heck else is happening in the collectibles world. |
+1,000,000
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I'd call it greedy (though he admitted in 2020 he knew next to nothing about Pokemon, why turn it down when it can be a nice payday) and lazy/incompetent - What you highlighted "That he used the same procedure as with sports product" is F'n crazy!!! He looks at the way the tape is stuck to the box and the fact that there are striations in the label that match up with the striations in the cardboard it is stuck to, but doesn't check any of the fonts, the fact that a legit label is thermal printed (the fake one is not), etc !!!!??? As far as his "expertise" with packs etc. My $$ will stay in my pocket - fruit of the poisoned tree. Apparently in the wake of this Steve has refused to authenticate any more pokemon products (Apparently in the Pokemon community there are known resealed pokemon packs in PSA slabs that Steve authenticated as well. Allegedly in a conversation with someone in the Pokemon community (in 2020 I think) Steve stated he didn't think there was a way to tamper with foil packs!? Just another example of all these "experts" we have laughing all the way to the bank, many times doing grossly insufficient due diligence, on a good day rendering opinions that are inconsistent and on a bad day that are entirely incompetent. |
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IMO, had Logan Paul decided to not do the opening party on this case (again I feel it was for publicity purposes purely) I would guess it would have sold later for more assuming that Pokemon remained relevant. The value in all of our authenticated items, legit or not accurately graded or not, is leaving them in their authenticated state. As long as the authentication company is still a going concern, the item will trade for more the next time...assuming the market is there for the collectible. |
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I've watched multiple videos of wax that was certified and the cards were either packed with the wrong cards or there was so much moisture damage that none of the cards were good but the box sold as much as a box that could have had no moisture damage. Old wax and certain years in the 1990's-2000's that the cards stuck together, I would never take the chance.
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People that try and compare this BBCE blunder to a TPG like PSA's mistakes are missing the point. BBCE didn't grade an altered, but authentic, item. This was a fully fabricated box. This would be similar to PSA grading a fake Wagner, not just a trimmed authentic one.
BBCE is supposed to authenticate these items. They had this in hand and couldn't detect the fact it was fake, even though others, only seeing pictures of it, could tell it was fake. The box wasn't right, the label wasn't the right size, the label barcode didn't match the number, the box tape didn't match the tape on other cases from the same company. Nothing was right and the "expert" still authenticated it. å̵̧͇̭͉͙̜͠n̴̨̻̬͙̯̗̋̎́̒̾͛̈́̾̕d̸̳̱̗̖̖̟͆͐̂́y̵̆͗̓̋̿̋̉͗̈ ̩́ ̷̢̧̗̳̫̭̼̒̒͗̇͐̉͒͠͝n̴̨̬̣͋̌͌̀̌̄e̵̘̞̙̯̯̰͋́̀̋͘͜u̵͌̾̉̇͐͂ ͙̜͙̤̗͍̤̥̽̈́b̶̡̛͕̋̃͒̒͛̐e̷̥̠̟̓͂͋̐r̴̗̜̲͇̘̙̾̾t̴̛͗͋͌ ̹͙̠̎ |
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Spot on! |
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So now the hobby is up in arms about a baseball card being resigned by a player? If I'm following this correctly, the theory is that they postulate (without providing any evidence mind you) that a card was originally signed by Pujols in 2001, but that the auto must have been either streaky or faded, so they wiped it off and had him sign it again. Really? This is what we're down to crying about now? A card that is actually signed by Pujols is somehow fraudulent if it was signed twice? Really? LOL. These guys are hilarious. |
It’s also perhaps the most valuable box of any kind they’ve come across. This isn’t simply an “oh shucks, everyone makes mistakes” type deal.
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It blows my mind that the every single corner of the collecting world is discussing this fake $3.5 million case and 95% of the chain of custody is only referred to by their XBox Live Gamertag....
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From the first day I got in the hobby I figured that the whole unopened pack, unopened case corner of the hobby was somewhere on the spectrum between shady as hell and a complete flaming crock of shit. Not in a million years do I believe someone can eyeball a pack or a case and conclusively determine anything. Wake up folks. Airlines have a hard time weeding out counterfeit plane parts. And you think it's hard for someone to surgically open a pack of cards and reseal it in a convincing way? C'mon. Same for cases. With the money that's at stake in breaking certain packs I am sure there are groups of people focusing on this fraud. Sophisticated people with the equipment to do it seamlessly.
Get to someone who works at one of the companies. Pay them $5,000 for a large sheet of pristine wrapping used for cases. Maybe a handful of stickers. Problem solved. |
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I don’t like it but the masses prob don’t care, know, and or want to know they only care it it’s slabbed. No line can’t be crossed to get a card in a holder. It’s a shame I feel your pain. |
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"My morals are just higher than yours if you think soaking a card in water to remove the scrapbook paper from the back is acceptable" or "Clearly, you have character flaws if you think a card SIGNED BY ALBERT F***ING PUJOLS and authenticated as such does not constitute fraud, even if he signed it twice." What difference does it make, even if he signed it 47 times until he had a signature that he was happy with? It's still an Albert Pujols signed RC. I swear, you guys will bi**h about anything and everything. :rolleyes: |
Back to the GI Joe cards in the Pokemon packs, maybe it's actually a factory error where the manufacturer accidently put the wrong cards into the packs, and all the third party authenticators were right...
;) |
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A subtle passive aggressive jab would be, "Hey Snowman, it's nice to see things are going well with your treatment. With a little more tweaking, I'm sure the doctors will get your meds just right. Keep up the great work. Your efforts are commendable." |
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If the card was graded by PSA as ALTERED with Auto AUTHENTIC presuming they evaluated the autograph (which they didn't), then the flip would be accurate and the buyer would know what they're getting. As of right now, it's a Frankenstein card. Similar to the 1994 Griffey and Mantle autos. Many were released unsigned, some were released with Griffey auto, some with Mantle autos, and some with both autos. Do you just assume that all cards you would come into contact with having both autos are authentic as released cards? Who's to say Mantle didn't sign afterwards, or Griffey did? Does that make the cards less valuable? Yes. Or did a forger put either's auto on there? I just don't get you. Perfectly okay with fraud. Just a cost of doing business. Why not just buy counterfeit Jackie Robinson cards? Why are they worse than originals? |
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First things first. And this is BY FAR my biggest beef with all you card "alteration" hunters. Maybe read this part twice. THE CARD IN QUESTION HASN'T EVEN BEEN PROVEN TO HAVE HAD THE AUTO WIPED TO BEGIN WITH. What we're discussing here is a hypothetical situation about whether it should be acceptable or not for an athlete to have signed a card twice. Yet here you are, pretending as if this has already been proven or something. You're free to cast a vote on that question, but you don't get to just decide on behalf of everyone that to do so constitutes "fraud" or some such nonsense. I would wager everything I own that if someone were to try to take this case to court, they'd be laughed out of any courtroom. There is just no scenario whatsoever that the majority of people would find this to be some sort of fraud, let alone even remotely questionable behavior. Regardless, back to the card itself. Let's keep the facts straight here. Someone posted a picture of a signed Pujols RC and said essentially that the auto just looked too nice/clean to him for it to have been an auto from 2001, and that it looked more like autos he's seen from 2004 (face-palm added). He provided zero evidence of his claim and made no mention of the sample size of how many autos he might game tried comparing it against. But he just "knows it in his heart", which is good enough for all you clowns to hop on board declaring "Look! MORE FRAUD!!!" Meanwhile, someone else responds with a photo of another Pujols signed RC where the auto looks nearly identical to the one in question. And the response is, "see, there's another one! Look how much fraud exists in this hobby. AVOID PUJOLS AUTOS EVERYONE! THEY'RE FAKE!... er, um, I mean, ya they're signed by Pujols, BUT NOT IN THE DAY YOU THOUGHT THEY WERE! WHICH IS FRAUD!!!" |
As far as the Mantle /Griffey card, again, no difference to me which one of them signed the card on which dates. It's on my wish list, and I couldn't give two f***s about whether it was signed by both at the same time or by one of them in 1994 and the other in 1997. Who cares? And if you do care, why? What difference does it make as long as it's signed by both? I would pay the same price either way.
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Have we let authentications control the marketplace instead of collectors? I feel like collecting has very little to do with the card or “sealed item” and everything to do with what a private unregulated company has to say about it
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Let's stop talking about Autographed cards graded by TPGs Ion this thread. This other topic of signed Pujols cards is a distraction from the topic at hand.
This thread is about the ineptitude of BBCE and their authentication of a fabricated case (not authentic in any way). å̵̧͇̭͉͙̜͠n̴̨̻̬͙̯̗̋̎́̒̾͛̈́̾̕d̸̳̱̗̖̖̟͆͐̂́y̵̆͗̓̋̿̋̉͗̈ ̩́ ̷̢̧̗̳̫̭̼̒̒͗̇͐̉͒͠͝n̴̨̬̣͋̌͌̀̌̄e̵̘̞̙̯̯̰͋́̀̋͘͜u̵͌̾̉̇͐͂ ͙̜͙̤̗͍̤̥̽̈́b̶̡̛͕̋̃͒̒͛̐e̷̥̠̟̓͂͋̐r̴̗̜̲͇̘̙̾̾t̴̛͗͋͌ ̹͙̠̎ |
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On this 2001 Pujols auto, which has a nonstandard auto for the year when the card was released, PSA didn't even evaluate the auto. But their PSA 10 grade would make a buyer think that since the card originally came autographed, that it has the original autograph. PSA AUTH ALTERED AUTO 10 would be more accurate, presuming the Pujols auto was even done by him. Someone earlier asked why the serial number would have been wiped and redone. One reason would be so that it couldn't have been as easily traced by serial number to previous cards pictured on the internet. Some very high value Trout autographs were exposed as wiped and resigned based on photo matches to previous sales. Once they've been wiped and re-signed, which does constitute alteration no matter how much you whine, PSA ignores the auto when giving the card grade. That's just a terrible business practice for the "world's leader in sports authentication." It's incompetent. |
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It seems to me that if the two cards don't sell for the same price, and I would bet a lot you are right, then the market (overall) does care. |
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Out of all the takes in the history of NET54, the statement below is the one that I the have the most issue with.
Jake Paul has fought NO ONE. His last "fight" was totally staged and set up. Same thing with his brother's "exhibition" with Floyd Mayweather. These matches were nothing but money grabs for them because they both new that certain audiences would pay $80 PPV to watch those staged productions. I would say that most people that think Jake Paul's bouts are legitimate are the same people that think professional wrestling is real. Quote:
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Thanks to a Blowout member, here's a comprehensive article on this mess.
I'll post in both threads since we can't seem to unify them. https://www.cardlines.com/logan-paul...hensive-guide/ |
I can't help it, but I find something fishy about this whole deal. A group of guys pay over 3 million dollars for an unopened box and can't wait to open it. BS. There is no card in the set worth anything near that. Then one of them does the jumping around overacting deal. All to staged looking for me. Something fishy went on with that case. I don't believe it a bit.
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For TCGs, and unopened product generally, there is a divergence between the value of sealed packs/boxes/cases and the expected value of the cards inside. The gap widens as the product ages. |
Pretty simple to me
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Steve Hart and BBCE have just taken a HUGE reputation hit - no way he agrees for that to happen for a stunt. Secondly - Steve has now publicly stated he is no longer authenticating Pokemon product. Why did it get opened? I suspect Logan Paul started looking at some of what was posted about this case which he may have been unaware of before he bought it. There is another "unopened" case that has one side of the top flap cut open to show the real boxes inside. I do presume Logan already had a commitment from his friend who he bought it from to refund if they were no good. I also suspect he would have kept the case intact with a single flap opened like the other if the boxes looked legit. You can see the bus coming at you - "not believe" it's a bus and it's still going to run you over! |
I wonder if Steve was made aware of the barcode and label issues between the time he authenticated the case and the video fiasco.
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If it were me and I had spent that much money, I would want the authenticator to be there. |
But if you're Steve and this is coming back to you based on rumors from the internet, wouldn't he have the common sense to read those rumors? It's like he wasn't even aware of them, since all he talked about before they cracked it was the condition of the label (fake) and the tape (fake). Or someone from his business should have pulled him aside with all the information. The meeting in the hotel room was like 3-5 days *after* all the information was out there on video and webpages explaining the rationale it was fake. That's a lot of time that he had to look into the challenges.
Reminds me of the scene in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade; Steve should have known the phrase "penitent man" before walking into a buzzsaw. |
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