WTB 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle
 

4.5/5 ideal, reasonable centering, strong color and registration, no print lines/roller marks. Will pay strong. Sell direct and save fees!! Thank you for looking.

Found ya a 5 that may work?
Sending PM

A hopeful bump.

:D

Holiday bump.

bump

I got a 52 Bowman. But it's not Mantle. Now that I'm looking at it, the centering is sorta shitty. Nevermind. :D:D:D

None out of three ain't bad.

C'mon Peter, '51 Bowman Mantle is fairly common. You just need to come off your wallet to get a nice one :). Good luck.......(I sold a 6 many years ago, wish I would have kept it now, of course.

Still looking.:D

Once more, with feeling.;)

Maybe put down the price range you are willing to pay as some people don't have the card but may know someone that does and if can convey a price that could allow them to pry it out of their collection...nothing to lose and seems like getting nowhere thus far...just a thought

Jake thanks, but I cannot convey a price without seeing the card, on this issue in particular 4s and 5s are all over the place in terms of centering, color, print lines or not, registration, etc. I said I would pay "strong" and by that I mean, for the right card, high VCP (possibly excluding PWCC).

lol!

still looking :D

There's a dead centered BVG 3.5 on ebay right now

Huggins and Scott has a decent one ....

That one is pretty nice. I might have to upgrade mine if you don't want it peter.

BVG?? Do not pass go, do not collect $200, not my cup of tea.

All yours my friend. Slightly out of register, look at the cap.

You've probably seen them already, but a few nice ones in the upcoming Memory Lane auction!! Hope you get one.

I hadn't looked that closely but I see what you mean.

that psa 4 may seems nicer than the psa 5

That happens a lot with this issue, as things like being off register, print lines through the face, and washed out appearance don't seem to count much for the grade. So a card with MUCH better eye appeal can be a grade or even two grades lower.

I thought the same thing until I noticed the crease.

what crease?

Crease, wrinkle, whatever you want to call it. Running through Mick's elbow, lower left corner of the card. You guys were talking about the PSA 4 currently on Memory Lane, right?

correct..i didn't notice it..card will still go for over $4000

I don't doubt that. If I had to guess I'd still say 5k with the buyer's premium. I just meant I wouldn't say it's nicer than the 5 with the wrinkle and wax stain, despite the awesome centering.

I would pay 4k for it right now if I could.

I agree with you that the 5 would be better than the 4 based on those issues..

I'd pay more for and prefer the 4 over the 5-- diff'rent strokes, as they say.

easy to say you will do that or others that say that kind of thing..but lets see you win a 4 like that for more than the 5 goes for in any type of auction for 4000 dollar plus cards ..talk is cheap...easy to say..ill believe it when I see it...though im not doubting you MattyC I know you have nice centered cards..i sort of talking in general to all the buy the card not the holder guys...I think resale value plays a bigger role than people say...but if someone wins this 51 mantle for a higher price (thus they actually paid and not 'will pay ) than the psa 5 by all means that will back up what they say..

For what it's worth, the, "Buy the card, not the holder," mantra does serve one very well on resale as well. Time and again I paid premiums for lower grade cards with great eye appeal that some thought were crazy at the time, only to do very well on those occasions when I sold some of those very pieces to go after a pricier card. There are many ways to be happy as both a collector and seller, for us all :)

I'd add that if one intends to hold a card for a long time, or as I've heard some say a long "investment horizon," one can feel free to pay more for a 4 that looks better to their own personal eye than a 5 which would have cost them less, since they can always hold their preferred 4 long enough and enjoy it during that time. Bottom line, I think so much of collectors' discussions hinges on where the discussion participants each fall on the collector versus investor spectrum.

That said, were I in the market for that 4, I would set my bid, and if it turned out to be higher than the 5 sold for, I would not care at all-- I took home the one I wanted at the price I wanted to pay, is all that matters. I have done it before (with many cards in my collection, and some well north of the price mark you referenced) and— if I love a card— I will definitely do it again, ;) When I love a card, there really is no helping me, LOL!

Were it not for that crease I think the 4 in this case would go for more than the 5. Centering and Eye appeal is at a premium and people are willing to pay for it.

Here's a good example from a couple of auctions I watched last week:

SGC 3 52 Mantle off center sold for about 13.5k with buyer's premium

http://www.gregbussineau.com/LotDeta...entoryid=12793

SGC 1.5 52 Mantle Centered 10.3k

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...p2047675.l2557

I'm sure we'd all agree there's normally at lot more than a 3k difference in the value of this card in a 1.5 vs a 3. I actually thought the SGC 3 would sell for less than it did.

Just look at the-- so far-- enormous premium being paid for the Goldin Auctions PSA 8 1952 Topps Mantle versus the Heritage example. 300k versus 240k. The Goldin 8 destroys the Heritage 8, for my own money. But another may see differently. Will be interesting to see if that disparity holds up at Hammer Time.

i would agree that the 4 is much more pleasing then the 5.
Yes, i buy the card not the holder/grade

Did you decide yet Peter :D

Case and point. I paid way up for this one for the card alone, not for what the printed number states on the flip. In my opinion this card holds it's own against other examples up to a 6 when taking into consideration centering, registration, stray print lines, color and back staining which it has none of. I'm thinking long term I did okay. :)

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...1551mantle.jpg

That card deserves a new home.:D

Fantastic Mick, Tony!

I think it did. Looking at the auction page it appears the $11,400 includes the BP. Interesting comparison between the two cards, though.

Although I doubt any bidders were fooled, I thought this line was a bit misleading in the description:

"...the offered example is highlighted by a crystal-clear portrait of "The Mick" that is boldly colored and unblemished."

Unblemished? :rolleyes:

You're right, don't know how I missed that. I guess that proves the point even more about the premium for centering and eye appeal. The seller of a 1.5 on ebay netted more than the seller of a 3 on that auction site.

And yes I'd hardly call that card unblemished. Don't get me wrong any 52 mantle is an awesome card and congrats to the collector who won it, especially if it's another net54 member. I suppose no one will ever list a card as "rough for the grade, use this one to pad your registry." I would appreciate the honesty though and might even bid a little more if they did.

Holy Crap, Tony! That card is gorgeous. PINPOINT focus. Deep color. Centering. Whatever an average "5" sells for today, I'd pay more right now for that 4.5. Great eye, brother. Congrats. I'd wager that card would outsell a mediocre 5 all day, every day.

that's a real nice sgc mantle....I have no doubt that will go for more than higher graded copies.....I talking about bidding at the same auction though when people are buying the card not the grade. like the memory lane auction with the 51 mantel..would of be interesting if no crease on the psa 4. .lots of people say they like a card more..but I think we all agree its one thing to say it and another thing to pay the price.........sort of like b/s/t...people comment how much they like someones card for sale, but don't pull the trigger...easy to say...but means a lot more to pay the price then just to say it.....

Yea that would be interesting to see. I would pay more for this Mantle in an SGC 4.5 than I would for the PSA 5 in Memory Lane. If 3-2-count were to agree to it I would buy this card for what that 5 closes at.

Although they were different sites I think those to 52 Mantles I posted make the point though, as to the PSA 8s mattyc mentioned, especially if they close with a 60k gap for the same card in the same grade.

when talking about cards with more than 50k difference.thats a little different scenario...sort of artwork at that point and eye in the beholder......heck the T206 wagner theres an issue of grading etc...can be 500k difference on opinion such as that Gretsky T206 Wagner (trimmed?) and the holder isn't really as important with that type of money.....I talking more of the regular cards in the 1k-20k range in the same auction....different auctions are everything..i want to see someone pay more for a lower grade card where the higher grade card is right in their face....we all overpay on occasion for cards..even knowing a prior auction price was much lower....its another to see it in front of your face like the memory lane auction that I first commented on....

again saying 'I will pay more' doesn't really count unless you actually pay...and what does 'pay more mean'....I can pay 2k for a 1952 mantle psa 5 versus 1k for a psa 6...so I am paying more..but I not winning the card.....its all really just talk and theory unless someone actually buys the card following their mantra...

I wish this one didn't have the print line, but at least it's off the face. Otherwise has all the characteristics I want.

Thanks Peter, Chuck, Matt & Jesse. Very much appreciated.

Peter that ones nice, but honestly if I owned it all I could concentrate on while viewing it is that darn vertical print line even though it's away from his face. It would drive me nuts. :(

LOL. I hear you, but on the other hand I have seen SO many off centered, print lines through the face, washed out color, out of register, stains in the back...

of course the seller probably saying 'if not for the print line, its a PSA 7-8'

LOL. From what I have seen the print lines don't count against the grade, nor does being out of register, on this issue. I have seen some horribly ugly 5s and 6s.

I get what you're saying, but the odds of that happening are slim. You would need a card like this 4.5 Mantle in the same auction with a 5-6 with some flaw. Off center, print line, etc. Then I think you would see the mantra in action. I know different auctions attract different bidders, and are hard to directly compare. But for now that's all we have. That, and the people who say they're willing to buy the card and not the holder.

Take MattyC's 52 Mantle. I don't know what he paid for it, but I bet it was a lot more than PSA 5s were selling for at that time. And if he sold it today, on here or an auction, i'm sure it would sell for more than 5s and would be close to the 6 range.

well again its talk....if he actually listed it, and there were some 5's and 6s on the same auction..we can get that experiment going....there are a lot of PWCC auctions though with many of the same cards in the same auctiion...I still see poor poor centered 6s going for more than great centered 5s.....I doubt any 9 has sold for more than a 10 in modern cards in the same pwcc auction.... for all of these buy the card not the holder its not showing in the bidding ...you would think it would happen more than a miniscule amount ..

As Jesse noted, it's a very specific hypothetical that Jake is envisioning-- I agree it would be cool and interesting to see it play out in the same auction with just the right two examples. I suppose that's why it doesn't pan out that often in the same auction, because we'd need to have the right auction with the right examples. When we compare examples across different auctions or sales settings, that's when we begin to see the phenomenon more prevalent.

As we've all seen an identical card can vary dramatically across various auctions, especially in a PWCC auction. But all things being equal I have personally noticed centered cards going for high amounts compared to VCP averages. Even for cards that aren't breaking VCP records every other auction like the Mantles we've been discussing, or say a 55 Clemente.

I recently bought a 55 Clemente in PSA 4 and paid a premium for the grade because the card was almost dead centered and looks for the grade. Even though I was looking for a 5 or 6. And I believe I got a great deal, and would have been willing to pay more.

That being said, I'm sure we'd all love to see this experiment in action. Maybe we can get a couple of members to pick a couple high end mid grade cards, one with eye appeal, one without, send them to the same auction, and see what happens.

Peter - Sorry for getting so far off topic and hijacking your thread. If anyone has, or knows of a nice 51 Mantle for sale please let Peter know.

Yes, I agree: apologies, Peter. Hope you find the one you want soon.

Not at all, discussion always welcome.

Matt, print line bother you in the one I posted?

Peter, from your initial post I would assume that the print line would bother you, and that you will end up wanting to upgrade eventually. I would say if you can get it for a price that it won't be difficult to resell for what you're in it then go for it. If you're planning to keep long term I would wait for one that you'll be happy with.

Actually, crazy as it sounds-- I think the rare clarity of image/registration and the centering kind of overshadow that flaw of the single vertical line. At that grade level we know and expect there will be some flaw, and I have to say that line is serendipitously placed. For average money for its grade, hypothetically, I would say that is an above average looking card for its grade. One thing about the 51B that matters even more to me than centering is that registration/focus. Perhaps 1 in 10 or way less than that is as crispy clear as that card.

The alternative flaw I would expect would be a small crease/wrinkle such as in the Memory Lane 4, and the line is basically the same kind of thing. Bottom line, I would not mind looking at that card every evening at my desk, to unwind. The eye is just so drawn away from the area of the card where its flaw is.

One thing we all tend to forget is that in this age of scans, a scan can really overplay a card's flaws. In hand, it can be a whole different story. One thing that works for me is to really pay attention to my initial first impression, my knee-jerk reaction, to a card, and listen to that impulse. When we first lay eyes on a card we have a gut instinct of, "nice card," or not. Gotta say, for me, that one got the "nice card" instinct at first sight. Afterwards, we can-- and will-- pick a card apart, and there will always be stuff for us to find if it's not a gem mint card (and even then, LOL). But there's a purity and truth to our first instinct as to whether it's nice or not. Hope that babbling helps, but it's Sunday and I'll rap cards ad nauseum to stave off the work week!

Matt that was my thinking too. The registration and color at least per the scan are pretty phenomenal and the centering well above average. The perfect can be the enemy of the good sometimes.

Well the PSA 4 and PSA 5 from the Memory Lane ended up selling for the same price. That's probably as close to this experiment as we can get without setting it up ourselves. It shows that at least one collector was willing to buy the card and not the holder.

yeah was close..

there was a 1952 jackie robinson psa 5 centered that sold for 2600 on ebay the other day..that range is psa 6 as well.....whoever those buyers are can say 'buy the card not the holder' they get the pass to do that......

The 52 Mays-- an astounding 7.5 example-- also shattered historical records, I believe selling for well more than what the last 8 commanded. Another noteworthy sale.

i really never into 7.5s...they are like red headed step children.....half grades usually sell for much closer to the base grade....plus registry people a lot of times like the same grades for the sets so .5s get in the way for them

id rather get a 7 for much cheaper ..or pay big money for a 8...just seems like a waste to spend a lot for 8

i hope i am wrong on 7.5s...cause i do have a 1954 psa 7.5 Banks for sale..

Well, I just bought a 7.5 recently that blows away all but one 8 I could find, and hangs with many of the 9s I saw on VCP and completed eBay sales-- actually besting many of the 9s in the centering and color department. I chose it over a few 8s that were available to me, as to me it was the better card. I'd also say that I have seen MANY half grade cards sell for much closer to the upper grade than the lower-- all depends on the card. If one buys a high end half grade, likely it will sell closer to the upper grade, I believe.

I'd offer that cards are each unique, discrete pieces, and need to be evaluated as such. Even with the TPGs efforts to herd cards into neat boxes, all cards in the same grade are simply not the same card, and some will not behave according to the VCP pricing grid. I couldn't generalize against an entire specific grade, and it seems whoever landed the Mays 7.5, along with the lucky new eventual owner of that nice Banks 7.5 RC, feels likewise :)