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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269710)

swarmee 06-08-2019 06:50 AM
UFFDAH posted about it on the PSA message board at the time; I linked it on Page 106 of the Mantle thread, and they said it was just featured in his collection article in the SMR.

ullmandds 06-08-2019 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1886605)
"1952 Bowman Stan Musial #196 PSA 9 to 10: Value gain of $25,300.03"

Ouch, seem to remember someone posting about buying this card.
Starting to wonder wherever brent described a card ad having “impossible” corners or “ impossible “ centering...maybe this was a hint like his stupid stickers a card had been tampered with??

Republicaninmass 06-08-2019 06:53 AM
The freaking thing was a PSA 9 HE SOLD less than 7 months earlier if I'm reading correctly. Now try to tell me he didnt know it was the same card. Wow

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1886606)
UFFDAH posted about it on the PSA message board at the time; I linked it on Page 106 of the Mantle thread, and they said it was just featured in his collection article in the SMR.
He posted here too.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...6&postcount=70

And he had this to say about it.

Peter - sellers like Brent, Steve Hart and some others are straight shooters. They build successful businesses because they are trustworthy. No different than my company taking care of our customers/consumers because we stand behind our product, you have to for repeat long term business. Brent does not hesitate to tell me to pass on one of his auction cards if he feels I should be patient and wait for a little stronger example knowing my goals and tastes. Sometimes my itchy trigger does not want to listen to him but I almost always do.

MULLINS5 06-08-2019 06:59 AM
The Musial is worthy of it's own thread

swarmee 06-08-2019 07:06 AM
I bumped the old one.

MULLINS5 06-08-2019 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1886614)
I bumped the old one.
Wonder who will bump the PSA forum one, lol.

swarmee 06-08-2019 07:23 AM
Well, they bumped the 15-year old Moser thread on the Set Registry board and it's still there, but that board gets no traffic.

And PSA knows that deleting the old threads would be a negative in the case of a real investigation. I can see them locking them, but not deleting them. I'm sure someone has already screen-captured or archived them.

In fact, maybe the owner will. He just posted on the Blowout board that he is aware and returning the card.

jason.1969 06-08-2019 07:26 AM
Beyond alterations, and yes I'm guessing this Ruth has seen some, I am not a fan of descriptions that make unsubstantiated and likely false claims as if they were fact.

Sorry but if you're gonna tell me Ruth 53 is EASILY the most rare of the Goudey Ruth cards I will need evidence. (Asked PWCC but recd no response.)

I would be happy to bet a lot that red 149 is more rare, though not by enough to ever use the word "easily."

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ebe177e7a7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0c02af75b9.jpg

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Bram99 06-08-2019 07:50 AM
How many buyers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1885166)
Solvency may be one of them. A consignment business can't last long if they're taking returns but can't get reimbursed by the submitter.
How many buyers will begin to pay PWCC in some form of reverse C.O.D.? If they turn out to be insolvent and have to shut their doors, the last payors who pay for their auctions might not be able to get their cards I would imagine. Does anyone know if the paypal or credit card refund measures would cover a buyer in this scenario?

earlywynnfan 06-08-2019 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 (Post 1886543)
Here is the response from PWCC that I received about a Moser card I purchased that was probably cleaned but not altered:

"Thank you or reaching out to us about this card. At this time we are working to address those cards which have been trimmed, recolored, have corners built up, etc. The card you purchased is not obviously altered and we don’t have enough evidence to determine yet that it is. Please be patient while we work through the clearly altered cards; if there are any issues with any of your past purchases we promise we will get to you soon. Thank you for your assistance on this.

​
Thank you!

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Marketplace"
Doesn't the phrase "clearly altered cards" jump out at anyone else? That they sold some that were obvious, along with some that weren't? That sounds like the type of thing that would get hammered by the lawyers on Boston Legal.

swarmee 06-08-2019 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlywynnfan (Post 1886671)
Doesn't the phrase "clearly altered cards" jump out at anyone else? That they sold some that were obvious, along with some that weren't?
Well, now they have the hindsight of before and after pictures despite not calling that "evidence" in the past.

calvindog 06-08-2019 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlywynnfan (Post 1886671)
Doesn't the phrase "clearly altered cards" jump out at anyone else? That they sold some that were obvious, along with some that weren't? That sounds like the type of thing that would get hammered by the lawyers on Boston Legal.
Boston lawyers are notoriously sharp, true.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 1886682)
Boston lawyers are notoriously sharp, true.
But not well reasoned.

Paul S 06-08-2019 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram99 (Post 1886639)
How many buyers will begin to pay PWCC in some form of reverse C.O.D.? If they turn out to be insolvent and have to shut their doors, the last payors who pay for their auctions might not be able to get their cards I would imagine. Does anyone know if the paypal or credit card refund measures would cover a buyer in this scenario?
...and all the cards in The Vault are confiscated as evidence during the ensuing criminal proceedings.

Fuddjcal 06-08-2019 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BengoughingForAwhile (Post 1886601)
Is the near future here yet?
How long does it take to print a list of cards connected to Gary Moser?
probably at least a month. Imagine 1000 cards 4 times a year for 15 years... That's 1 guy. PWCC is VERY CROOKED. Someone will wipe the glossy white smiles off the faces of those 2 imbeciles

Fuddjcal 06-08-2019 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason.1969 (Post 1886622)
Beyond alterations, and yes I'm guessing this Ruth has seen some, I am not a fan of descriptions that make unsubstantiated and likely false claims as if they were fact.

Sorry but if you're gonna tell me Ruth 53 is EASILY the most rare of the Goudey Ruth cards I will need evidence. (Asked PWCC but recd no response.)

I would be happy to bet a lot that red 149 is more rare, though not by enough to ever use the word "easily."

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ebe177e7a7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0c02af75b9.jpg

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Very nice Fake Ruth... That's what it should say in the description.

steve B 06-08-2019 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1886756)
Very nice Fake Ruth... That's what it should say in the description.
What makes you think it's fake?

it is marginally tougher than the 149, but only by about 30 cards out of all the ones graded.

53 779 95+ 62Q 936
144 1064 144+ 119Q 1327
149 802 89+ 70Q 961
181 885 89+ 99Q 1073

Oh, and all the 35's together don't even total as many.

Fuddjcal 06-08-2019 02:30 PM
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2694

For all you T206 American Beauty Hughie Jennings Fans...PSA 4 to PSA 6.5

Should be called "Two Hands Soaking" - Nothing like chemical treatment, coloring and a trim . Just like a haircut.

Somebody certainly TOOK a haircut on this one. You know who didn't?

BRENT MASTRO, that's who. Nice work snake oil boy.

swarmee 06-08-2019 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1886821)
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2694

For all you T206 American Beauty Hughie Jennings Fans...PSA 4 to PSA 6.5
Top of the pop report; also removed a crease based on the auction description of the PSA 4.

midwaylandscaping 06-08-2019 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1886618)
Wonder who will bump the PSA forum one, lol.

52 Musial thread? You're welcome. :D:):D

CMIZ5290 06-08-2019 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1886762)
What makes you think it's fake?

it is marginally tougher than the 149, but only by about 30 cards out of all the ones graded.

53 779 95+ 62Q 936
144 1064 144+ 119Q 1327
149 802 89+ 70Q 961
181 885 89+ 99Q 1073

Oh, and all the 35's together don't even total as many.
I agree Steve, how is this card fake? I sure hate to stick up for Brent having said that....

Fuddjcal 06-08-2019 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 1886881)
I agree Steve, how is this card fake? I sure hate to stick up for Brent having said that....
Just my personal opinion that if 1 PWCC card is TAINTED, they are ALL tainted. Especially the nice clean brightly chemically dipped and pressed Ruth like that one.

rajah424 06-08-2019 05:40 PM
Pwcc
 
Anyone tried to register a Moser Altered Cards registry set with PSA yet?

bnorth 06-08-2019 05:42 PM
2 Attachment(s)
Here is my version of the F*ck Faces baseball card.:)

Unfortunately I got a bad ink cartridge and the colors are off.:(

Second pic is what it should look like.

xplainer 06-08-2019 05:50 PM
:D
Great job there.

steve B 06-08-2019 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1886886)
Just my personal opinion that if 1 PWCC card is TAINTED, they are ALL tainted. Especially the nice clean brightly chemically dipped and pressed Ruth like that one.
Altered isn't fake...

And most of my few 33s have whiter borders, and I'm pretty much 100% sure they aren't bleached.

Not saying something wasn't done to that one, just that I believe it's real and whatever alterations there may be are hard to find in that image

bnorth 06-08-2019 07:39 PM
Does anybody think Brent will be a gentleman like Bill Mastro and send out gift baskets to those who supported him?

Fuddjcal 06-08-2019 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajah424 (Post 1886889)
Anyone tried to register a Moser Altered Cards registry set with PSA yet?
No, but I was trying to get Moseralteredcards.com but it was taken already....Brent Mastro was the registered owner.

MULLINS5 06-08-2019 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1886933)
No, but I was trying to get Moseralteredcards.com but it was taken already....Brent Mastro was the registered owner.
That domain is available. What domain did Brent buy?

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1886933)
No, but I was trying to get Moseralteredcards.com but it was taken already....Brent Mastro was the registered owner.
brentmastro.com seems like the domain for you

ruth-gehrig 06-08-2019 09:31 PM
f*ckfacesofbaseball.com is available as well:D

Mark17 06-08-2019 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1886892)
Here is my version of the F*ck Faces baseball card.:)

Unfortunately I got a bad ink cartridge and the colors are off.:(

Second pic is what it should look like.
You should send this in to be graded.

Bigdaddy 06-09-2019 09:38 PM
So with all this 'alteration' and/or 'conservation' going on, how long will it be before all baseball cards are transformed into PSA 10s?

Republicaninmass 06-10-2019 04:40 AM
If it was up to Moser and PWCC, it would be imminent.

Peter_Spaeth 06-10-2019 04:43 AM
26K gain on a Cousy RC.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2789

iwantitiwinit 06-10-2019 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1887273)
Per the link......Note in the PWCC PSA-8.5 listing description: "The offered quality simply doesn't exist in the hobby and we'd be rather surprised if any of the 4 PSA 9s in the world hold eye appeal equal to this 8.5. A dead centered and perfectly printed specimen which sets the bar for what's possible from the issue."

Well he's right there. It didn't exist in the hobby it had to be fabricated. It sets the bar for what's possible from a person practiced in alteration. No bueno.

Peter_Spaeth 06-10-2019 06:13 AM
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2797

49B Jackie 3 to 5.
Midgrade isn't safe either, y'all.

iwantitiwinit 06-10-2019 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1887282)
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2797

49B Jackie 3 to 5.
Midgrade isn't safe either, y'all.
This one took over a year and a half to resell. Why so long? Possibly multiple submissions to PSA to get an unqualified grade? Just wondering does PSA monitor whether the same card has been submitted multiple times from the same individual? Wouldn't that be the simplest form of tracking and control.

Peter_Spaeth 06-10-2019 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit (Post 1887293)
This one took over a year and a half to resell. Why so long? Possibly multiple submissions to PSA to get an unqualified grade? Just wondering does PSA monitor whether the same card has been submitted multiple times from the same individual? Wouldn't that be the simplest form of tracking and control.
There have been countless crackouts and bumps, I doubt the graders realize a card has been through there before unless maybe it's a rarity. I know cards that have been in there 3,4,5 times before getting their desired grade.

topcat61 06-10-2019 09:08 AM
I'm not sure this article on Collector's Universe has been posted yet, but it's pretty interesting.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/426...aiting-exposed

Peter_Spaeth 06-10-2019 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat61 (Post 1887320)
I'm not sure this article on Collector's Universe has been posted yet, but it's pretty interesting.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/426...aiting-exposed
yes it has its own thread

Dpeck100 06-10-2019 05:47 PM
My buddy Rob just forwarded me an email he got from PWCC in regards to a card he purchased that was outed as a Gary Moser example that was trimmed.

They want him to send it back and they will "work" to get his refund and "work" to get the the card taken out of circulation by ultimately causing the card to be forwarded to law enforcement.

I checked with him if I could share and I thought readers would be interested in the info.

Peter_Spaeth 06-10-2019 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1887564)
My buddy Rob just forwarded me an email he got from PWCC in regards to a card he purchased that was outed as a Gary Moser example that was trimmed.

They want him to send it back and they will "work" to get his refund and "work" to get the the card taken out of circulation by ultimately causing the card to be forwarded to law enforcement.

I checked with him if I could share and I thought readers would be interested in the info.
Kick it to the FBI like they did in WIWAG? Hope I am reading that wrong.
Oh I did read it wrong, this is PWCC not PSA sorry.

MULLINS5 06-10-2019 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1887564)
My buddy Rob just forwarded me an email he got from PWCC in regards to a card he purchased that was outed as a Gary Moser example that was trimmed.

They want him to send it back and they will "work" to get his refund and "work" to get the the card taken out of circulation by ultimately causing the card to be forwarded to law enforcement.

I checked with him if I could share and I thought readers would be interested in the info.
Have to get their hands on the evidence.

ZiggerZagger 06-10-2019 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1887564)
My buddy Rob just forwarded me an email he got from PWCC in regards to a card he purchased that was outed as a Gary Moser example that was trimmed.

They want him to send it back and they will "work" to get his refund and "work" to get the the card taken out of circulation by ultimately causing the card to be forwarded to law enforcement.

I checked with him if I could share and I thought readers would be interested in the info.

Just got my email as well from an item purchased November 2018. Not going into any more detail, but the gist as stated above is right -- send the card back and we'll "work to refund your purchase price", and take the card out of circulation by forwarding it to law enforcement.

Fortunately it's just a single card for me. So far...

I'd imagine these templated emails will be arriving to folks in the hobby en masse in the coming days.

.

Peter_Spaeth 06-10-2019 07:33 PM
48 Leaf Jackie 32K gain.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2827

Republicaninmass 06-10-2019 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1887617)
Wonder if Brent advised the buyer what to bid in that one. Holy schnikes

Peter_Spaeth 06-10-2019 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1887619)
Wonder if Brent advised the buyer what to bid in that one. Holy schnikes
Looks way too white for a Leaf.

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-10-2019 08:06 PM
Man that whole concept just smells funny. Please send us the evidence so that we can TRY and pay you back and even though we have been completely untrustworthy to date, trust us to give the card to the authorities.

Or maybe give us the card back and we'll try and resell it so we can give you your money back without costing us anything???


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