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T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lCYoung12x.jpg Getting back to the Major League team rosters....listed here are the Chicago Cubs (37 subjects) and the Detroit Tigers (30 subjects). After the NY Giants roster, these 2 teams have the most representation of players in the T206 set. I would guess this was by design, since the Cubs and the Tigers were in the 1907 and 1908 World Series. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...n4versions.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...n4versions.jpg 150 series M. Brown (Cubs) M. Brown (portrait) G. Brown (batting-Chicago) Chance (red portrait) Evers (bat-blue sky) Evers (portrait) Kling Lundgren (Cubs) Overall (portrait) Reulbach (glove) Schulte (front view) Sheckard (no glove) Steinfeldt (portrait) Tinker (portrait) Tinker (hands on knees) 350-only series Hofman Howard Kroh Moran Pfeister (seated) Zimmerman 350/460 series M. Brown (Chicago) Chance (yellow portrait) Evers (bat-yellow sky) McIntyre (Brooklyn and Chicago) Overall (arm at face level) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Steinfeldt (with bat) Tinker (bat off shoulder) 460-only series Chance (batting) Needham Overall (arm at waist level) Pfeffer Schulte (back view) Sheckard (glove) Tinker (bat on shoulder) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...OLDMILLx50.jpg 150 series Cobb (green portrait) Cobb (bat on shoulder) Crawford (throwing) Donovan (portrait) Jennings (portrait) Killian (pitching) Mullin (throwing) O'Leary (portrait) Schaefer (Detroit) Schmidt (throwing) 350-only Series Bush Donovan (throwing) Davy Jones Killian (portrait) M. McIntyre (Detroit) Moriarty Mullen Rossman Schmidt (portrait) Stanage Summers Willett 350/460 Series Cobb (red portrait) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Crawford (batting) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Mullin (batting) O'Leary (hands on knees) Willetts 460-only series NONE Stay tuned.....11 more Teams to go. TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lCYoung12x.jpg Listed here are the Chicago White Sox (27 subjects), Cleveland Indians (25 subjects), and the Cincinnati Reds (23 subjects) teams. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ndilSGC60x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...auty460b37.jpg 150 series George Davis (Chicago) Donohue Dougherty (portrait) Hahn Isbell F. Jones (portrait) F. Jones (hands at hips) Owen Parent F. Smith (Chicago) Sullivan L Tannehill (Chicago) Walsh Doc White (portrait) 350-only series Atz Burns Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Purtell Scott F. Smith (white cap) 350/460 series Dougherty (arm in air) Doc White (Chicago-pitching) 460-only series Duffy Gandil Payne Tannehill (Chicago) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpg 150 series Birmingham Bradley (portrait) JJ Clarke Flick Goode Hinchman (Cleveland) Joss (portrait) Lajoie (portrait) Lajoie (throwing) Liebhardt Stovall (portrait) Turner CYoung (portrait) CYoung (bare hand) 350-only Series Easterly Perring Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhoades (arm extended) 350/460 Series Berger Bradley (bat) Joss (pitching) Lajoie (bat) CYoung (glove at hip) 460-only series Ball (Cleveland) Stovall (bat) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign50x.jpg 150 series Ewing Griffith (portrait) Karger Lobert Spade 350-only Series Bescher (portrait) Campbell Downey fielding) Dubuc Egan Fromme Gasper Hoblitzell Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) McLean Mike Mitchell Mowrey Oakes Paskert 350/460 Series Downey (bat) Griffith (bat) 460-only series Bescher (hands over head) Stay tuned.....8 more Teams to go. TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Listed here are the St Louis Browns (22 subjects), St Louis Cardinals (18 subjects), and the Washington Senators (19 subjects) teams. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...StLouisSGC.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...McGlynn25x.jpg 150 series Criger Criss Ferris Tom Jones Pelty (horizontal) Powell Stone Waddell (portrait) Waddell (throwing) Wallace Williams 350-only series Dineen Graham (St Louis A.L.) Hoffman (St Louis A.L.) Howell (portrait) McAleese Stephens 350/460 series Lake (St Louis-no ball) Pelty (vertical) 460-only series Howell (hand at waist) Lake (St Louis-ball) and, Demmitt (St Louis American)) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tLouisSGCA.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...McGlynn25x.jpg 150 series Bresnahan (portrait) Gilbert Konetchy (glove high) Al Shaw 350-only Series Barbeau Bliss Bresnahan (bat) Charles Byrne Evans Hulswitt Phelps Rhodes 350/460 Series Konetchy (glove low) Willis (throwing) Willis (bat) 460-only series Geyer and, O'Hara (St Louis Nat'l) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohsonSGC40.jpg 150 series Conroy (fielding) Delehanty (Washington) Ganley Johnson (portrait) Shipke 350-only Series G. Brown (Washington) Elberfeld (portrait-Washington) Gray Groom McBride Milan Street (portrait) Unglaub J. Tannehill (Washington) 350/460 Series Conroy (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Johnson (pitching) Street (catching) 460-only series Schaefer (Washington) Stay tuned.....only 5 more Teams to go. TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Listed here are the rosters of the Philadelphia Athletics (22 subjects), Pittsburgh Pirates (19 subjects), and the Philadelphia Phillies (13 subjects) teams. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xb.jpg 150 series Bender (portrait) Harry Davis (A's) Murphy (throwing) Nicholls (hands on knees) Oldring (fielding) Plank Powers 350-only series Barry (A's) Bender (trees) Collins (A's) Dygert Hartsel Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Livingstone Thomas 350/460 series Baker Bender (no trees) Harry Davis (A's) Murphy (bat) Nichols (bat) 460-only series Oldring (bat) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...WILLISport.jpg 150 series Abbaticchio (brown sleeves) Camnitz (arms folded) Clarke (portrait) Clarke (bat) Gibson Leach (portrait) Leifield (pitching) Honus Wagner Willis (portrait) 350-only Series Abstein Maddox Miller (Pittsburg) Phillippe Wilson 350/460 Series Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) 460-only series Abbaticchio (blue sleeves) Camnitz (hands over head) Camnitz (arm at side) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...6Doolan50x.jpg 150 series Bransfield Coveleski Dooin Doolin Jacklitsch Magee McQuillan (ball in hand) 350-only Series Doolan (fielding) Knabe Titus 350/460 Series Doolan (bat) Magee (bat) McQuillan (bat) 460-only series NONE And finally, the next post will complete the sixteen Major League teams by listing the Boston Doves and the Boston Red Sox rosters. TED Z . |
Great posts Ted!
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Thanks, Ryan
Hope to see you at the Philly Show at the end of this month (Nov 30 - Dec 2). TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Listed here are the rosters of the Boston Doves (14 subjects) and the Boston Red Sox (13 subjects) teams. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erzogSGC45.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ogUZITx37b.jpg 150 series Bates Beaumont Bowerman Dahlen (Boston Nat'l) Lindaman Ritchey 350-only Series Beck Becker Ferguson Graham (Boston Nat'L) Mattern Starr Bill Sweeney (Boston Nat'L) 350/460 Series NONE 460-only series Herzog (Boston Nat'L) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rSovereign.jpg 150 series Cicotte Niles Spencer Stahl (no glove) Wagner (bat on left) 350-only Series Arellanes Carrigan Lord Speaker 350/460 Series Kleinow (Boston) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Stahl (glove) Wagner (bat on right) 460-only series NONE "That's All Folks"............we have accounted for all sixteen Major League teams which comprise of 388 ballplayers in the T206 set. Check out your favorite team's roster in Posts #553, 554, 561--564, and 567. TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg I've arranged the cards in my T206 sets in their albums with respect to each Series. This arrangement has greatly enabled me to understand the structure of this "Monster". I'm a "numbers" guy, so here's the T206 set breakdown numerically with respect to each Series...... ..12 = 150-only series (Major Leaguers) 143 = 150/350 series (Major Leaguers) 122 = 350-only series (Major Leaguers) ..63 = 350/460 series (Major Leaguers) ..46 = 460-only series (Major Leaguers) ….2 Demmitt & O'Hara (St Louis variations) ----- 388 = total (Major Leaguers) ..86 = 350-only series (Minor Leaguers) ..48 = Southern Leaguers series ---- 522 = total number of subjects in T206 set Furthermore, #523 ….………………………………………………………………......…….. #524 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...MagieSGC10.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edoylenatl.bmp AND, #525 .....for those of you who consider this card a T206 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cobbtycobb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cobbtycobb.jpg TED Z . |
Thanks
Awesome work, Ted - thanks for all you do to keep this place T206-informative!
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T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams
Quote:
One of my favorite words....."awesome". Thanks for your complimentary words, they are very much appreciated. Anything any one wants to know about "The Monster" is in this thread, and there is more info that will be posted. TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Moeller12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tyDowns12x.jpg Listed here are the 350 Series Minor Leaguer's, comprising of 86 subjects....48 subjects are from the Eastern League, and 38 subjects are from the American Association. Eastern League ------------------ Baltimore Orioles Buffalo Bisons Jersey City Skeeters Montreal Royals Newark Indians Providence Grays Rochester Bronchos Toronto Maple Leafs American Association ------------------------ Columbus Senators Indianapolis Indians Kansas City Blues Louisville Colonels Milwaukee Brewers Minneapolis Millers St Paul Saints Toledo Mud Hens 350 Series Minor League subjects Abbott (Toledo) Adkins (Baltimore) Anderson (Providence) Armbruster (St Paul) Arndt (Providence) Barger (Rochester) Barry (Milwaukee) Batch (Rochester) Beckley (Kansas City) Blackburne (Providence) Brain (Buffalo) Brashear (Kansas City) Burchell (Buffalo) Burke (Indianapolis) Butler (Rochester) Carr (Indianapolis) Casey (Montreal) Cassidy (Baltimore) Chappelle (Rochester) Clancy (Buffalo) Clark (Columbus) Clymer (Columbus) Collins (Minneapolis) Congalton (Columbus) Cravath (Minneapolis) Cross (Indianapolis) Davidson (Indianapolis) Delehanty (Louisville) Dessau (Baltimore) Dorner (Kansas City) Downs (Minneapolis) Jack Dunn (Baltimore) Flanagan (Buffalo) Freeman (Toledo) Ganzel (Rochester) Grimshaw (Toronto) Hall (Baltimore) Hallman (Kansas City) Hannifan (Jersey City) Hayden (Indianapolis) Hinchman (Toledo) Hoffman (Providence) Jackson (Baltimore) Kelley (Toronto) Kisinger (Buffalo) Kruger (Columbus) Lattimore (Toledo) Lavender (Providence) Lundgren (Kansas City) Malarkey (Buffalo) Maloney (Rochester) McGann (Milwaukee) McGinley (Toronto) McGinnity (Newark) McGlynn (Milwaukee) Merritt (Jersey City) Milligan (Jersey City) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller (Jersey City) Moran (Providence) Nattress (Buffalo) Oberlin (Minneapolis) O'Brien (St Paul) O'Neill (Minneapolis) Phelan (Providence) Pickering (Minneapolis) Poland (Baltimore) Puttman (Louisville) Quillen (Minneapolis) Randall (Milwaukee) Ritter (Kansas City) Rudolph (Toronto) Schirm (Buffalo) Schlafly (Newark) Schreck (Columbus) Shannon (Kansas City) Sharpe (Newark) Shaw (Providence) Slagle (Baltimore) Smith (Buffalo) Strang (Baltimore) Taylor (Buffalo) Thielman (Louisville) White (Buffalo) Wright (Toledo) Irv Young (Minneapolis) All these cards are found with PIEDMONT backs, and SWEET CAPORAL backs. Only 59 of them are found with SOVEREIGN backs (27 subjects are SOVEREIGN No-Prints). Furthermore, 80 of these Minor League cards were printed with tougher backs, such as the A-B-C-D backs. To date, 80 subjects have been confirmed with the AB and CYCLE backs. Approx. 75 with the BL 350 back. And, approx. 40 with the DRUM back. I expect that eventually more of these Minor Leaguer's will be found with the latter two backs. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...blueChaseX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Moeller12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tyDowns12x.jpg Regarding the 86 - Minor Leaguer's in the 350 Series, I was asked which 6 guys were not printed with any of the A - B - C - D backs ? http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg These 6 subjects are No-Prints with respect to the A - B - C - D backs. Barger (Rochester) Collins (Minneapolis) Cross (Indianapolis) Lundgren (Kansas City) Puttman (Louisville) Shannon (Kansas City) TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections......T206 Southern League cards illustrated
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
_____http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yFoster11x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...P350bks12x.jpg_____ The T206 Southern League cards represent players in 4 Leagues in "Dixie". Checklist for these 48 subjects is found in Post # 146 in this thread. Let's start with the 22 players representing the Virginia and South Atlantic Leagues (22) subjects http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rs21cds19x.jpg In my opinion, the 2 toughest cards in this Southern League series are Ed Foster and Frank Shaughnessy. I cannot explain why Foster is so tough, but I do understand why Shaughnessy is tough. Frank has quite a "following". He played Baseball and Football during his years at Notre Dame (1901-1904). Played briefly for the Philadelphia A's in 1908. Frank is in three Hall of Fames....Canadian Football Hall of Fame, the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, and the McGill University Sports Hall of Fame. Frank was the Manager (and player) of the Roanoke Tigers 1909 - 1911. Furthermore, he was the President of the International League from 1936–1960. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ghnessy25x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ghnessypix.jpg Southern Association (20) subjects......these cards were also included in the 1910 COUPON issue. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...arrCran12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...artHart12x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...thThorn12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...olePerd12x.jpg Texas League (6) subjects http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tSoLgrs18x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tSoLgrs18x.jpg TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-this-one-out !
Does this "mania" get any crazier than this ? ?
So you have "completed" your T206 set. But, the Monster has you hooked. Just like those classic lyrics in the song Hotel California tell us......... :) "you can check out any time you like....but, you can never leave" :) Anyhow, I found this Pennsylvania license plate in a little ole Antique shop many years ago, and put it on my 1960 Thunderbird. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0tbirdt206.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...RDwoodshed.jpg So, let's hear of your "Monster obsessions", I'm sure there are some very interesting ones. TED Z . |
1 Attachment(s)
Ted,
I accept part of the responsibility for the Monster obsession. If I'm not mistaken Heitman's book T 206 THE MONSTER created the association between the set and the monster term. Heitman seemed disturbed that the Monster Number thread fails to cite him in this regard. He told me he would sue for copyright infringement. Negotiations were held in an Anaheim Ice Cream Shop witnessed by none other than Large Ass Herzog. Heitman agreed to drop the suit and vowed to support the obsession he created. Below is my proof of this encounter. Attachment 335649 To be honest I don't think he would have been persuaded without Large Ass looking over his wrist (?). https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...-ass/17995/a-1 When it comes to autograph authentication it never hurts to have a Large Ass in the room.;):D |
T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !
Hi Frank....very interesting.
I have reprised my post #107 here, in which I refer to posts (dating back to 2005 - 2007) where Bill responded on Net54. I think readers will find them quite interesting....check them out. Quote:
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T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !
Quote:
I cannot be the only "T206 nut" on this forum that has weird T206 obsessions. So, come on guys, show-n-tell us of your odd-ball "Monster" mania. ? Or better yet, stop by and see me at the Philly Show this weekend (booth # 209), and we can spend hours talking T206's. TED Z . |
1 Attachment(s)
The inclusion of Farrah Fawcett "cards" in Bill's Monster Book was a joke played on Bill by his publisher (I believe). Bill was upset about it, but didn't want to foot the bill for a Farrahless second printing.
The Pout left and Pout Right cards are my favorites. Attachment 335868 |
T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !
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Dennis Eckes (publisher) was infatuated with Farah Fawcett at that time (1980). Jim Beckett told me this back then. Recall that Dennis was also the publisher of the Beckett Price Guides (1979 to current). Incidentally, I like all 6 pix of the Farah in Bill's book. TED Z . |
Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. Some of the RED CROSS cards were issued in 1910, and a 2nd series of cards were issued in early 1912. This fact is evident by team trades reflected in the captions of certain 2nd series cards. RED CROSS tobacco products were produced in Jersey City, NJ (Factory #10) by the Lorillard Tobacco Co. Lorillard was a subsidiary of American Tobacco Co. American Lithographic (ALC) printed their 1st series of the T215-1 cards during the production run of the T206 cards in 1910. What is quite interesting in this process of printing the T215-1 cards, ALC intermixed T206 subjects from their 150, 350, and 460 Series. The 2nd series followed in the Spring of 1912. Regarding the T215-1 captions, note that they are printed with BROWN ink....which clearly identifies these cards as having been printed by ALC prior to 1913. ALC switched to printing captions with BLUE ink for their white-bordered sets from 1913 - 1919 (T213-2, T213-3, T214, T215-2) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dCross50xb.jpg T215-1 Checklist..... 96 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Ball (Cleveland) Bender (trees) Bender (no trees) Bridwell (portrait-cap) M. Brown (Chicago) Byrne Pittsburgh Camnitz (arm at side) Chance (batting) Chase (trophy) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Eddie Collins (A's) Conroy (bat) Crandall (portrait-cap) Crawford (bat) Cree Harry Davis Cleveland Devore Donlin (bat) Pittsburgh Doolan Dougherty (arm in air) L. Doyle (bat)) L. Doyle (portrait) Dubuc Elberfeld (fielding) Ford Fromme Griffith (bat) Washington Hartsel Toledo Herzog New York NL Hoblitzel Hofman Howard Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL Huggins (hands/mouth) (Cincinnati) Hummel Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Kelley Konetchy (glove low) Krause Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Latham Leifield (bat) Lord Chicago AL Magee (bat) Marquard (portrait) Marquard (pitching) Mathewson (white cap) Mathewson (dark cap) McGinnity McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove) Harry McIntyre Chicago NL Matty McIntyre Chicago AL Merkle (throwing) Meyers Miller Mowrey St Louis NL Mullin(bat) Murphy (bat) Murray (portrait) Oakes St Louis NL Oldring (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Paskert Pelty (vertical) Purtell Quinn Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Schaefer (Washington) Schulte (back view) Sheckard (glove) Frank Smith Cincinnati Speaker Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) St. Louis NL Street (portrait) Street (catching) Sweeney (New York AL) Tannehill (Chicago AL) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Warhop Wheat Doc White (pitching) Willetts Wilson Wiltse (portrait-cap)) Wiltse (pitching) Cy Young (glove) Boston NL TRADES....circa 1909 - Spring 1912 that are reflected on these T215-1 cards. Bobby Byrne.................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909 Harry Davis......…………….Dec. 1911 signed a contract to manage Cleveland Mike Donlin...................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on February 17, 1912 Clark Griffith.................signed a contract to manage Washington in Oct 1911 Topsy Hartsel............…..signed by Toledo (A A) in the Fall of 1911 Buck Herzog..................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911 Miller Huggins (port).......from Cincinnati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910 Harry Lord.....................from Boston AL to Chicago AL on Aug 11, 1910 Harry McIntyre...............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910 Matty McIntyre...............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911 Mike Mowrey..................from Cincinnati to St Louis NL on August 22, 1909 Rebel Oakes................….from Cincinnati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910 Frank Smith...............…..from Boston AL to Cincinnati on May 11, 1911 Harry Steinfeldt........…….1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL Cy Young (glove)………….…signed with Boston Rustlers Aug 19, 1911 Hey guys This project is still a work in progress....I may have some errors here. Therefore, feel free to correct me. I will really appreciate your inputs. And, post your T215-1 cards....it's always neat to see some of these rarely seen tobacco cards. TED Z . |
Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set Since no one has responded to the question.... "Do the T215-1 RED CROSS cards belong in the T206 set ?"..... my answer is YES, and NO ! YES for the cards printed and issued circa Spring/Summer 1910....and NO for the cards printed and issued circa Spring 1912. In the Spring/Summer of 1910, ALC was printing sheets of 350 Series (T206) cards. Furthermore, the printing of 1910 COUPON (T213-1) and RED CROSS (1st series) cards coincided with this timeline in the printing of the various T-brands of the T206 set. My initial analysis of the 1st series of T215-1 cards indicates that at least 23 subjects were derived from this 350 Series printing of T206's. These 23 are...… Bender (trees) Byrne (St Louis) Eddie Collins (A's) Cree Doolan Dubuc Fromme Hoblitzel Hofman Howard Huggins (hands/mouth) Kelley Krause Marquard (portrait) McGinnity Miller Paskert Purtell Quinn Speaker Street (portrait) Warhop Wilson Also from the 150/350 series, Mathewson (white cap) was included for a starting total of 24 subjects printed in the 1st series of T215-1 cards. Further research is continuing in order to figure out how many more cards were in this 1st series. Anyhow, let's get a meaningful discussion going here. It's amazing the BB card mysteries Net54 members have solved over the years when they share their theories. So, let's hear your opinions regarding this subject ? ? http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dCross50xb.jpg TED Z . |
I am undecided as to whether t215-1 (and t213-1) should be considered t206s, but I am working on several back runs and fully feel i need the type 1 version of the cards to complete the back run. In fact, I would like to get all t213 and t215 versions (including pirate back), as well as t214, to do a true and complete back run. Doesn’t answer your question Ted, but maybe advances the topic a bit.
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I would say no since we don't know the full list of who was printed in 1910 and who was 1912. It makes sense to me that both series of cards be grouped together as their own set.
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Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
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Hi Ryan Spoken like a true "white-bordered tobacco card collector"......good luck with your T-card runs. I try for all of American Litho's printed front/back combos in my serious T-card runs. Starting with my very 1st acquisition of the blue Chase (Willow Grove Show, March 1981)………. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...aseblue50x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...seblue50xb.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ep460fac42.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...v350Sov460.jpg . . . . . . . . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...factory42b.jpg . . . . . . . . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350Sov460b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...42ovPBxTol.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ap350Fac30.jpg .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2ovPBxTolB.jpg Fac. #30..................Fac. #42 ................Fac. #42 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUx50b.jpg A - B - C - C - D connection http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...uplcate75x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LxCOxCYx25.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...6DRUMx50bx.jpg Since 1981 (when I initially start my blue Chase run), I have never seen this T206 with a DRUM back. I have hope that eventually one will show up. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ChaseLENOX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...haseLENOXb.jpg This run continues into the next post here...……… TED Z . |
CONTINUATION from previous post.
Lucky for me that the blue Chase was NOT printed with the RED CROSS back :)
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Buffalo50x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lueChase50.jpg . . . . . . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loT213x25b.jpg . . . . . . . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ueChase50b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ctorychase.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ctorychase.jpg TED Z . |
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PS- Merkle throwing Bresnahan batting Street catching, also missing the Red Hindu |
Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
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GOOD LUCK...finding the RED CROSS (T215-1) cards. You'll most likely find the red HINDU Street before you will find any of those RED CROSS (T215-1) cards. If I intend to run the entire white-bordered route, I start by "reverse engineering" the run....that is to start by acquiring the RED CROSS first, then follow up with all the rest of the cards. For example, that's how I began my Dots Miller run with this T215-1 card. Only nine backs needed in the T206 group, of which I still need the BROAD LEAF 350, CAROLINA BRIGHTS and DRUM (although, DRUM has yet to be confirmed for Miller). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...5miller50x.jpg TED Z . |
Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TobaccoAdv.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obaccoAdvB.jpg Just a tidbit of Tobacco trivia...... P. Lorillard is the oldest tobacco products manufacturer in the U.S. ? Listed here is a breakdown of the 96 subjects in the T215-1 set with respect to their series in the T206 set...……….. 150/350 Series…...Summer/Fall 1909 Mathewson (white cap) 350-only Series…...Spring/Summer1910 Bender (trees) Byrne (St Louis) Eddie Collins (A's) Cree Doolan Dubuc Fromme Hartsel Hoblitzel Hofman Howard Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands/mouth) Kelley Krause Lord Marquard (portrait) McGinnity Matty McIntyre Miller Mowrey Oakes Paskert Purtell Quinn Speaker Street (portrait) Warhop Wilson 350/460 Series…...Fall/Winter 1910 Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) M. Brown (Chicago) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Davis (A's) Donlin (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) L. Doyle (bat)) Elberfeld (fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Mathewson (dark cap) Harry McIntyre Mullin(bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Pelty (vertical) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Frank Smith Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Jeff Sweeney Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Doc White (pitching) Willetts Wiltse (pitching) Cy Young (glove) 460-only Series…...Winter 1910/Spring 1911 Ball (Cleveland) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (arm at side) Chance (batting) Chase (trophy) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore L. Doyle (portrait) Ford Herzog Hummel Latham Marquard (pitching) McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove) Merkle (throwing) Meyers Murray (portrait) Oldring (bat) Schaefer (Washington) Schulte (back view) Sheckard (glove) Tannehill (Chicago) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wheat Wiltse (portrait-cap) OK, given the above list and the trades which resulted in new teams in the subjects captions (see post #580), let's see who is the Net54 genius that can logically figure out the 1st series T215-1 cards which were issued in 1910. And, as a result we will identify which cards were issued in 1912.....besides these 15 whose team changed from their T206 counterpart...… Byrne Pittsburgh Harry Davis Cleveland Donlin (bat) Pittsburg Griffith (bat) Washington Hartsel Toledo Herzog New York NL Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL Lord Chicago AL Harry McIntyre Chicago NL Matty McIntyre Chicago AL Mowrey St Louis NL Oakes St Louis NL Frank Smith Cincinnati Steinfeldt (bat) St. Louis NL Cy Young (glove) Boston NL http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dCross50xb.jpg TED Z . |
Hi Ted, isn't there a RED CROSS Bresnahan batting in the 350 Series?
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Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
Sean
The Bresnahan that you are referring to is found only in the T215-2 set. I have never seen a T215 Bresnahan (with bat) with a BROWN caption. I always double-check my T215-1 data by referring to the PIRATE set of cards (which are a known quantity, and are essentially a mirror image of the T215-1 cards). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...atecigpack.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...atecigpack.jpg TED Z . |
Okay, thanks Ted.
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Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
You're welcome, Sean
Ole buddy, we both like to do T-card runs, so it behooves you to check-in with me regarding whether certain front/back combos exist. Otherwise you'll find yourself on a "wild goose" chase for cards that don't really exist. TED Z . |
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Bresnahan batting, which you told me only exists in a Type-2; Street catching, which I believe is in both the Type-1 and Type-2 varieties; Merkle fielding, which you've said is a Type-1 card. Does it also come as a Type-2? |
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Correcto on Bresnahan (batting). Double correcto on Street (catching). Merkle (throwing....excuse me for correcting you) exists as a T215-1 card and T215-2 card. TED Z . |
Hey Ted,
Curious -- where do you get Merkle on the Type 2 checklist? I only have Merkle on the Type 1 and Pirate checklists but not on the Type 2. If anybody has as scan of either Type 1 or 2, I'd love to see it -- I don't have confirmation for my checklists. Cheers, Steve |
Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?
Hi Steve
Merkle (throwing) is listed as a T215-2 card in Bob Lemke's Standard Catalog of Vintage BB Cards. And, I'm assuming this is correct since Merkle has been confirmed as a T215-1 and a PIRATE card. Best wishes for the Holidays. TED Z . |
Thanks, Ted. :)
Looking at my lists again, I did have Merkle on my individual Type 1 and 2 lasts but for some reason didn't have the Type 2 on my combined list that I keep separately. Guess I'm that much further from perfect. :p Happy holidays and a happy new year to you as well! Steve |
T206 Reference/Reflections...Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards?
Hey guys,
I may be wrong, but I have not seen any Sports or Non-Sports tobacco cards with either the CHESTERFIELD brand or the LUCKY STRIKE brand on them. In 1905, ATC acquired the the R.A. Paterson Co....maker of LUCKY STRIKE cigarettes. So, how come there aren't any T206's with a LUCKY STRIKE back ? http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Laboratory.jpg In in 1912 (after ATC's divestiture), Liggett & Myers introduced the CHESTERFIELD cigarette brand with the slogan "They do satisfy". Chesterfield Cigarette compact (5 5/8 " x 4 1/2 ") http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mpactFront.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...pactFact25.jpg Compact open.....and it's empty.....my CHESTERFIELD cigarettes went up in smoke :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ompactOpen.jpg Anyone on this forum have any thoughts as to why these two major T-brands were not printed on insert premiums for cigarette packs ? TED Z . |
T206 Reference/Reflections...Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards?
Exactly 100 years after L & M introduced the CHESTERFIELD brand, we have here a very colorful advertisement (dated May 2012)
with some familiar faces from the 1947 Season. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erfieldAdv.jpg Hey guys, I'm still waiting for anyone on this forum who has any thoughts (or information) as to why the CHESTERFIELD and LUCKY STRIKE brands were not printed on insert premiums for cigarette packs (circa 1909 - 1919 era) ? TED Z . |
Ted, email sent.
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Is it possible that those two brands were successful and large enough thAt they didn't need additional promotion?
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T206 Reference/Reflections...Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards?
Hi Rich
LUCKY STRIKE cigarettes were not that popular a brand until the 1920's. One of the most popular cigarette brands circa 1909 - 1911 was PIEDMONT. And, especially in the South and Southeast. And, the CHESTERFIELD brand was introduced in 1912. TED Z . |
Interesting. Usually everything hinges on marketing and the need to drive sales. I'm really surprised, then, that these two brands never hosted cards.
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T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)]. Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363 meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, it was "the start of of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Claude Raines to Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca). In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints. So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here. And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________ INDEX Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters. Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005 Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns in T205's Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds" Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ? Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one ! Post #580.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ? Posts #581 >> 590.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ? Posts #591 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ? Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #605 >> 610.....the TOLSTOI story Posts #611 >> 620.....the TOLSTOI story Posts #621 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your question(s).... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections......the TOLSTOI story....and show us your cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg When American Lithographic started printing the 350 Series T206's, they introduced these T-brands....AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CAROLINA BRIGHTS, CYCLE, DRUM, EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and TOLSTOI . TOLSTOI print runs started circa 1910. Continued to the end of the T206 press runs (Spring 1911). To date, 255 subjects have been confirmed. TOLSTOI cards are not tough. However, certain 350-only subjects printed early in 1910 must have been short-printed, as they are very tough to find. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ackTOLSTOI.jpg TOLSTOI checklist (255 subjects) confirmed. They are listed here according to their respective T206 series. 350-only Series...................146 subjects Abstein Anderson Arellanes Atz Barbeau Barger Barry (A's) Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Blackburne Bliss Brain Brashear Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Burns Bush Byrne Campbell Carrigan Casey Chappelle Charles Clark Clymer Collins (Milwaukee) Collins (A's) Cree Cross Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Demmitt (New York American) Dineen Doolan (fielding) Dorner Downey (fielding) Downs Joe Doyle (NY) Dubuc Jack Dunn Joe Dunn Dygert Easterly Engle Evans Ferguson Fiene (throwing) Fletcher Ganzel Gasper Graham (St Louis) Gray Grimshaw Groom Hartsell Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hoffman (Providence) Hoffman (St Louis AL) Hofman Howard (Chicago NL) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hunter Jones (Detroit) Kelley Killian (portrait) Kisinger Kleinow (New York-catching) Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh LaPorte Lattimore Lavender Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Maloney Marquard (portrait) Mattern McAleese McBride McCormick McElveen McGinnity McIntyre (Detroit) McLean Merritt Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Mitchell (Cincinnati) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Chicago NL) Mowrey Murray (bat) Myers (batting) Myers (fielding) Nattress Nichols (bat) Oakes O'Brien O'Neill Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phillippe Purtell Puttman Quillen Quinn Randall Rhoades (arm extended) Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Ritter Rossman Rudolph Schmidt (portrait) Schreck Scott Shannon Sharpe Slagle Smith (Chicago, white cap) Smith (Buffalo) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Starr Stanage Stephens Strang Summers Taylor Thomas Unglaub Warhop Willett Wilson Zimmerman 350/460 series...................57 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Harry Davis (A's) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake, St. Louis (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifeld (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Doc White (Chicago-pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (throwing) Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) CYoung (glove) 460-only Series......…..........46 subjects Abbaticchio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (follow thru) Bergen (catching) Bescher (hands over head) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (hands over head) Camnitz (arm at side) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore Duffy Larry Doyle (portrait) Ford Frill Gandil Geyer Herzog (Boston) Howell (hand at waist} Hummel Lake, St. Louis (ball) Latham Marquard (pitching) McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove at hip) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (batting) Overall (blue sky) Payne Pfeffer Schaefer (Washington) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (bat) Schulte (back view) Seymour (portrait) Sheckard (glove) H. Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tannehill (Chicago) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wheat Wiltse (portrait-cap) Six Super-Prints Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Evers (Chicago-yellow sky) Mathewson (dark cap) This is a work in progress, more stuff will be forthcoming. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections......the TOLSTOI story....and show us your cards
ATC Factory #30 (in NYC) was a major producer of various cigarette brands. Besides SWEET CAPORAL, some of these tobacco brands were
CAIRO MONOPOL, LENOX, and TOLSTOI. Also early 1911, a new T-brand named UZIT. By the Spring of 1911, American Lithographic (ALC) had printed the last of their T206's (350/460 and 460-only series cards). ALC embarked on producing their Gold-Bordered cards.....T205 BB, and various and sundry Non-Sports sets (T42, T43, T56, T57, T69, T80, T99, etc.). Furthermore, Imagine opening a LENOX or UZIT (or perhaps a TOLSTOI) cigarette pack in the Spring of 1911 and finding a T206 card and a T80 card in it. ** http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CMblankBx2.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...oCMblankBk.jpg In my wild imagination, I expect that some day we will find a Cobb (or two) with a T80 back on it. Hey, this may seem improbable; however, consider that the printer installed the T80 LENOX printing plates in the press instead of the T206 LENOX plates. After all, these cards were printed concurrently. Anyway Cobb has been quoted as saying...…. " Baseball is like War ! " So guys, check-out these unique Cobb cards :) .........……..http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cobb460x50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0xLENOXx50.jpg ……………………………………...….…...http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cobb460x50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TOLSTOIx50.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...OLDMILLx75.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xUZITx50bk.jpg ………….and, here he is wielding his weapon of "war" :) ** Note….ALC ledger sheet (dated Feb 1911) exists which instructs ATC employees at Factory #30 to insert both a T206 card and a T80 card in a LENOX (or UZIT) cigarette pack. TED Z . |
3 Attachment(s)
So far I only own 2 Tolstoi cards:
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Bliss Casey Knight (portrait Knight (bat) Merritt O'neil Pfeister (seated) the following missing from your list are confirmed Beckley Donovan (throwing) Knabe Street (portrait) Sweeney, Bill I also think Bender (with trees) might be an error on the confirmed lists but I'm not sure. There is only one in the PSA pop reports and none in the SGC reports. I've never seen one and I think it might be a label or data entry error on a no trees PSA example. |
15 Attachment(s)
Love me some Tolstois!
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8 Attachment(s)
Nice Luke! those are some tough Tolstoi's.
Here's a few more that don't show up often. Attachment 342333Attachment 342334 Attachment 342335Attachment 342336 Attachment 342337Attachment 342338 Attachment 342339Attachment 342340 |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections......the TOLSTOI story....and show us your cards
Quote:
Hi Pat 1st....the ones you pointed out which I omitted..... If you check-out my recent thread (shown below), you will see that I did list 3 of the subjects as confirmed TOLSTOI cards. I was combining data from several TOLSTOI lists in my records, and I inadvertently left out part of one. My bad ! Excerpt from my "Interesting NO-PRINT group of T206 Carolina Brights - EPDG - Old Mill - Polar Bear" thread...….. Quote:
2nd....regarding: Bliss Casey Knight (portrait Knight (bat) Merritt O'Neil Pfeister (seated) I will double-check the data on my lists of TOLSTOI cards to see why I included any, or all 7 of these as "confirmed" TOLSTOI cards. 3rd....Regarding the Bender (trees) with TOLSTOI, I vaguely recall having seen one many years ago. I checked the pop reports (and like you said) I noticed PSA lists one graded. So I figured my recollection was valid. Thanks for your inputs. TED Z T206 Reference . |
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Ted, I saw that most of these were on your other lists so I knew you just forgot to put them on this list I was just pointing them out so you could update this list. I'm still a little skeptical about the Bender. There are a few single known example Tolstoi's but Bender is the only HOF and we have seen other errant confirmations due to a pop error. if you look at the other 350 only HOF pop numbers it seems odd that there isn't a recorded sale or scan. Combined pop #'s of the other HOF 350 only Tolstoi's Beckley - 17 Bresnahan - 12 Collins, Eddie - 6 Collins, Jimmy - 12 Huggins (hands at mouth) - 12 Huggins (portrait) - 6 Kelley - 3 Marquard (Port) - 4 *SGC has 9 in their pop report that doesn't specify pitching or portrait. McGinnity - 6 Speaker - 11 |
2 Attachment(s)
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rest must be fairly recent. Here's another low pop Tolstoi. Attachment 342395 Attachment 342396 |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections......the TOLSTOI story....and show us your cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Updated TOLSTOI list...… http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...olstoiback.jpg TOLSTOI checklist (253 subjects) confirmed. They are listed here according to their respective T206 series. 350-only Series...................144 subjects Abstein Anderson Arellanes Atz Barbeau Barger Barry (A's) Beckley Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Blackburne Brain Brashear Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Burns Bush Byrne Campbell Carrigan Chappelle Charles Clark Clymer Collins (Milwaukee) Collins (A's) Cree Cross Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Demmitt (New York American) Dineen Doolan (fielding) Donovan (throwing) Dorner Downey (fielding) Downs Joe Doyle (NY) Dubuc Jack Dunn Joe Dunn Dygert Easterly Engle Evans Ferguson Fiene (throwing) Fletcher Ganzel Gasper Graham (St Louis) Gray Grimshaw Groom Hartsell Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hoffman (Providence) Hoffman (St Louis AL) Hofman Howard (Chicago NL) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hunter Jones (Detroit) Kelley Killian (portrait) Kisinger Kleinow (New York-catching) Knabe Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh LaPorte Lattimore Lavender Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Maloney Marquard (portrait) Mattern McAleese McBride McCormick McElveen McGinnity McIntyre (Detroit) McLean Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Mitchell (Cincinnati) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Chicago NL) Mowrey Murray (bat) Myers (batting) Myers (fielding) Nattress Nichols (bat) Oakes O'Brien Paskert Perring Phillippe Purtell Puttman Quillen Quinn Randall Rhoades (arm extended) Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Ritter Rossman Rudolph Schmidt (portrait) Schreck Scott Shannon Sharpe Slagle Smith (Chicago, white cap) Smith (Buffalo) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Starr Stanage Stephens Strang Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston NL) Taylor Thomas Unglaub Warhop Willett Wilson Zimmerman 350/460 series...................57 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Harry Davis (A's) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake, St. Louis (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifeld (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Doc White (Chicago-pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (throwing) Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) CYoung (glove) 460-only Series......…..........46 subjects Abbaticchio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (follow thru) Bergen (catching) Bescher (hands over head) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (hands over head) Camnitz (arm at side) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore Duffy Larry Doyle (portrait) Ford Frill Gandil Geyer Herzog (Boston) Howell (hand at waist} Hummel Lake, St. Louis (ball) Latham Marquard (pitching) McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove at hip) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (batting) Overall (blue sky) Payne Pfeffer Schaefer (Washington) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (bat) Schulte (back view) Seymour (portrait) Sheckard (glove) H. Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tannehill (Chicago) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wheat Wiltse (portrait-cap) Six Super-Prints Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Evers (Chicago-yellow sky) Mathewson (dark cap) This is a work in progress.....if you have a TOLSTOI card that is not listed here, please chime in.....Thanks. TED Z . |
Here are a couple of my low population cards.
http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/tolstoifront.jpg http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/tolstoiback.jpg |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections......the TOLSTOI story....and show us your cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg My research indicates that initial TOLSTOI print runs (circa early 1910) appear to coincide with early 1910 press runs of the 350 series. And, what is evident (based on pop report data) is that they many of these cards were short-printed relative to subsequent T206 series (350/460 series and 460-only series) TOLSTOI print runs. For example......this simulated arrangement of the 48 subjects in the 1910 COUPON set were also printed with TOLSTOI backs. Approx. 67 % of these guys are quite tough to find with TOLSTOI backs. Becker & Marshall have yet to be confirmed with a TOLSTOI back. But then, it is only recently that Joe Dunn, Claude Rossman, and Ira Thomas have been found with TOLSTOI backs. So, I expect that Becker and Marshall will be eventually found with TOLSTOI backs. 1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League (48) subjects http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Sheet12xxx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eSheet12xx.jpg Circa early 1910 TOLSTOI group Becker * Bender (trees) Byrne Campbell Chance (yellow portrait) ** Charles Chase (blue portrait) ** Chase (dark cap) ** Cobb (red portrait) ** Cree Donovan (throwing) Doolan (fielding) Dubuc Joe Dunn (Brooklyn) Engle Evers (Chicago-yellow sky) ** Fletcher Hartsel Hoffman (St Louis AL) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hunter Killian (portrait) Knabe LaPorte Lennox Marquard (portrait) Marshall * Mathewson (bark cap) ** McBride McElveen McIntyre (Detroit) Mitchell (Cincinnati) Mowrey Myers (batting) Myers (fielding) Paskert Rhoades (hands at chest) Rossman Schmidt (portrait) Starr Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston NL) Thomas Willett Wilson * denotes not yet confirmed with TOLSTOI back. ** denotes super-print which has a considerably higher TOLSTOI population, since these subjects were also included in the 350/460 series print runs. TED Z . |
My research indicates that initial TOLSTOI print runs (circa early 1910) appear to coincide with early 1910 press runs of the 350 series. And, what is evident (based on pop
report data) is that they many of these cards were short-printed relative to subsequent T206 series (350/460 series and 460-only series) TOLSTOI print runs. For example......this simulated arrangement of the 48 subjects in the 1910 COUPON set were also printed with TOLSTOI backs. Approx. 67 % of these guys are quite tough to find with TOLSTOI backs. Becker & Marshall have yet to be confirmed with a TOLSTOI back. But then, it is only recently that Joe Dunn, Claude Rossman, and Ira Thomas have been found with TOLSTOI backs. So, I expect that Becker and Marshall will be eventually found with TOLSTOI backs. TED Z .[/QUOTE] I confirmed these along with Fiene throwing on t206resource in the past 1+ years when I found scans of them while doing research on the scarcity of the 350 only subjects with Tolstoi backs all of them sold at different times. The Dunn came up for sale on ebay in March 2018 Fiene sold on ebay in July 2015 Rossman in June 2015 and the Thomas sold on ebay in May 2011. |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections......the TOLSTOI story....and show us your cards
Quote:
I figured it may be you that found these 4 subjects with TOLSTOI backs this past year. But, I wasn't certain. Great research, guy. TED Z . |
wanted to chime in that i just came across this thread and your research about tolstois and yall are AWESOME. i started collecting tolstois only about 6-8 months ago (have around 35 or so graded so far) and have been looking for more and more info. great data and great work gentlemen!
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Figured we needed a Tolstoi Matty posted. Always wondered why they made Tolstoi and Piedmont so similar in design.
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...ictureid=18880http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...ictureid=18934 |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections......the TOLSTOI story....and show us your cards
Quote:
Good question, Dean. The TOLSTOI brand was an early entry when the print runs of the 350 series subjects began. My guess is the same artist that designed the PIEDMONT backs also did the TOLSTOI back. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...toiP350x75.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...oiP350x75b.jpg TED Z T206 Reference . |
T206 Reference / Reflections, Theory's, etc.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT I'm celebrating my 40th year since I read Bill Heitman's T206 book titled "THE MONSTER".....that started me on this glorious adventure which has become an obsession. But, "obsessions" can be a good thing. Especially, when I think of all the great friends I have met all these years in this great hobby Talkin' T206's (and, N162's, T205's, E90's, 1910 COUPON's, GOUDEY's, DIAMOND STARS, PLAY BALL's, LEAF's, BOWMAN's, TOPPS). I would like to express my sincerest appreciation to all of you on this forum. And to all of the collectors and dealers (many of whom have become life-long friends) which I have met since my first Willow Grove Show in March 1981. This forthcoming weekend marks my 100+ Philly Show in which I will be set-up at. Looking forward to seeing some of you (booth # 412). TED Z . |
T206 Reference / Reflections, Theory's, etc.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's
A good number of Net54er's dropped over to visit with Dan and me this past weekend at the Philly Show. We had a great time talking BB and BB cards with them.
Made some nice deals (selling & trading). Many of them traveled a good distance (Boston, New York State, North Carolina, Virginia, etc.) despite the snow & rain. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE / Reflections, etc.....CYCLE 460 checklist.....and show us your cards.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DGsgc60x11.jpg The CYCLE 460 cards depict players in the 350/460 series and the 460-only series, which comprise a total of 109 subjects. These cards were issued circa Fall/Winter 1910. The CYCLE 460 cards were not equally printed. There are some considerably more difficult to find than others. I'll post a breakdown of the tougher ones vs the easier ones in a forthcoming post. I have to do some searching for all my data on the relative scarcity of these T206's with CYCLE 460 backs. If I recall correctly, Lee Behrens has completed this 109 card sub-set. I'm curious if anyone else on this forum has completed (or near to completing) the CYCLE 460 sub-set ? In any event, let's have a show-n-tell of your CYCLE 460 cards. CYCLE 460 cards do not get the recognition that most tougher T206 backs do; nonetheless, they can be scarce. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...e460cyoung.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...e460cyoung.jpg 350/460 Series....................63 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Cobb (bat off) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Davis (A's) Donlin (bat) Doolan (batting) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (batting) L. Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Evers (bat-yellow sky) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (hands at chest) Jordan (batting) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) Mathewson (dark cap) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Doc White (pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Willis (throwing) Wiltse (pitching) CYoung (glove) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...YCLE460x18.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CLE460x19b.jpg 460-only Series....................46 confirmed cards Abbaticcio (blue sleeve) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (follow thru) Bergen (catching) Bescher (arms over head) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (arms up) Camnitz (arms over head) Chance (batting) Chase (trophy) Crandall (cap) Devore Doyle (portrait) Duffy Ford Frill Gandil Geyer Herzog (Boston) Howell (hands at waist) Hummel Lake (ball-St Louis) Latham Marquard (follow thru) McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove at hip) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (batting) Overall (blue sky) Payne Pfeffer Schaefer (Washington) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (batting) Schulte (back view) Seymour (portrait) Sheckard (glove) Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tannehill (Chicago) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wheat Wiltse (portrait-cap) TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE / Reflections, etc.....CYCLE 460 checklist.....and show us your cards.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DGsgc60x11.jpg As noted in my last post, certain T206's with CYCLE 460 backs are much tougher to find than others. In my opinion, CYCLE 460 cards should be ranked scarcer than they are. For example....Russ Ford is a subject in the Exclusive 12 ** group. This group of T206's are easier to find with red HINDU backs than with the CYCLE 460 backs. I have been doing a run on each of these 12 guys. Trust me, their CYCLE 460 cards are very tough. The UZIT cards of the Exclusive 12 subjects are almost impossible to find. The CYCLE 460 cards are not that scarce; however, they are a very real challenge. My McGraw CYCLE 460 (see post #624) is a fairly nice-looking card. This Russ Ford is a rough one, but I am happy to get these CYCLE's any way I can find them. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...60RussFord.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...RussFordBk.jpg ** See Post #35 in this thread for more info regarding the Exclusive 12 group. TED Z . |
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Ted,
Love this post about one of my favorite backs. I agree that it's undervalued and underappreciated. Here are my 3 favorite Cycle 460s! |
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The Cycle 460 is very underrated difficult; like this Lajoie, which is downright impossible.
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I too agree that they should be higher on the difficult scale. I haven't been following the Group of 12 cards in a few years but at one point, it was a focus of my T206 collecting for a few months. I managed to find Crandall, Duffy, and Sheckard out of the 12. I admit, I haven't focused my collecting on Cycle 460's at all but have 25 different in my collection. Here is my lowest combined (PSA + SGC) population card of 2 total.
http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/howellfront.jpghttp://www.unclenacki.com/net54/howellback.jpg |
T206 REFERENCE / Reflections, etc.....CYCLE 460 checklist.....and show us your cards.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DGsgc60x11.jpg Nice CYCLE 460 cards.....Jay, Ryan, and Ron.....thanks for posting them. Here's my favorite CYCLE 460 from my Donlin back run. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...le460x25bx.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ycle460x25.jpg TED Z . |
Ted, that back is about as clear and centered as you see'em
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Ted,
I am currently at 99 with 10 left to finish off the subset. Slow progress at this point but seem to knock one off here and there. The set definitely has some toughies. Lee Behrens 320-219-1372 |
T206 REFERENCE / Reflections, etc.....CYCLE 460 checklist.....and show us your cards
Quote:
I know how that goes, I started my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 run about the same time you started your CYCLE 460 run. And, I still need a couple of guys to complete this 74-card run. Good luck in finding those last 10 cards. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE / Reflections, etc.....CYCLE 460 checklist.....and show us your cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DGsgc60x11.jpg Also, I am trying to do a CYCLE 460 run with the six Super-Prints. I have (or had) a Matty with a CYCLE 460 back, but I cannot find this card. I've seen a couple of Cobb's with the CYCLE 460 back. But so far their cost way "out-of-sight". I'm a patient dude, I'll wait for the right Cobb. Furthermore, the two Hal Chase cards are impossible to find. If anyone here has a blue Chase with a CYCLE 460 back to offer....I am a buyer. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CYCLE460_1.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LE460x25_1.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCYCLE460b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rtCYCLE460.jpg TED Z . |
I've been searching for the Chase cards also. They don't ever seem to show up. Maybe I'm always looking in the wrong place. I only have the Johnny Evers, which seems to be the most common for showing up. I remember very early on, I thought there was an American Beauty 460 Chase Blue Portrait along with the other 5 Super Prints but then the checklists proved I was wrong.
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections, etc.....CYCLE 460 checklist.....and show us your cards
Quote:
Hi Ron Back in 2006, when I started my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) run, my research indicated that the 6 super-prints were definitely not printed with the AB 460 (nor the UZIT) backs. This may seem strange, but I certainly welcomed that fact. No need to go on a "wild goose" Chase (excuse the pun) :) TED Z . |
T206 Reference, Reflections......The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement....check-it-out
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpg Theoretical thinking in years gone by, it was thought that there could be any where from 6000 to 10,000+ cards that would comprise a T206 "Master Set". However, in the past 12 years we have gained a significant understanding of which T206 cards were printed and which were not. Resulting in approx. 5300 front/back permutations that we know were normally issued **. Thanks to David Hall....who essentially has completed a T206 Master set, we now have a fairly accurate number of how many different T206's were issued in cigarette packs during the Spring/Summer of 1909 to the Spring of 1911. Reviewing his list of T206's, his current total number of cards is 5238. There are about a dozen T206's which have been confirmed which David still needs to complete this set. Your inputs on this subject will be greatly appreciated. ** Note….. There are approx. 100+ more T206's that were printed, but not issued in cigarette packs (i.e., brown LENOX, brown OLD MILL, and SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 cards of the 350/460 series subjects). These anomalies will be covered in the next post(s) here....so stay tuned. TED Z . |
To get overly technical, Brown Old Mills were not distributed in packs, but Brown Lenox seem to have been.
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T206 Reference, Reflections......The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement....check-it-out
Quote:
Hi Sean The brown LENOX cards may have been issued in LENOX cigarette packs, but I am not certain that this is true. And, I say this since a limited number of 350/460 series cards have (so far) surfaced with the brown LENOX backs. Namely, the subjects I refer to as Group B. The brown LENOX cards which have been confirmed are from Group B (none from Group A) of the 350/460 series subjects. Check-out this link..... The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Furthermore, 6 brown LENOX cards have been confirmed from the 460-only series. All of which suggests these brown LENOX cards may have been cut from an uncut sheet. I think more research is required to determine if these cards were in cigarette packs. TED Z . |
Ted, is there a list of the cards that David already has or that he needs?
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T206 Reference, Reflections......The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement....check-it-out
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpg Sean David provided me a list of his entire Master set about a year ago. He probably has added some cards to his set since then. Since you seem to be interested in brown LENOX cards, here is a list of the ones in his set (these cards are not included in the total tally of his Master set in the above Post #636)...... 350/460 series Bender (no Trees) Bradley (bat) Burch (fielding) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Jordan (bat) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Manning (pitching) McQuillan (bat) Overall (yellow sky) Pfeister (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Willetts Willis (bat) 460-only series Chase (trophy) Latham Marquard (follow thru) Merkle (throwing Schlei (portrait) Wiltse (portrait-cap) TED Z . |
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