It will certainly be interesting to watch how this evolves.

Even more of a reason why it has plenty to fall. Volume slightly higher than normal but any kind of real selling looks like it will crush the price.

wow, that's quite a list of pulled cards there. I hope that gives everyone a scope of this problem created and 10 years running. These cards and others just like it, month after month after month. All those conservators better have paid their taxes on that income... :) Thanks for pulling these and the Wagner. If it had happened 3 weeks ago like you said it would have held more weight. Better late than never.

Sorry Leon!! I will mind my language. My bad, sincerely

More like 10 years ago.

Just because PWCC's statement uses passive voice to minimize their culpability doesn't mean the article writers have to follow their lead. I'd like to see active verb usage in the future.

Every idiot should have gold, silver and baseball cards in their portfolio....like I do.:D:D:D

Again, read the stockholder statement. It states pretty unequivocally that they do NOT carry insurance on their guarantee.

EDIT: Peter had my back. Thanks.

right...another 1000 this auction and they'll be home free.

Springer voice: "And the lie detector determined.... that was a lie."

he's the smartest guy in the room, your not going to convince him. I think he would like to misremember at this point.

It's incredible. Every single thing he says is untrue, it seems. Again, it takes the diligence of collectors to call him out.

The one true statement he made was that we will hold him responsible.

It's uncanny, in the very statement where he supposedly is trying to come clean about Moser, by disowning him, he misrepresents that he is no longer selling his cards, when he was trying to. You can't make this up.

Hmmm.. is that not hindsight, honestly??

Card is gone, disregard my pm :)

Sounds like a good business, Leon's Card Removal Service. :eek::cool:

I reiterate:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ong%20jack.gif

Yes, I have a new favorite GIF and yes I am ten years old...WTF do you expect, I play with baseball cards.

I think he's just rolling the dice at a casino, right? ;-)

1914 Cracker Jack James Scott
 

Everyone take a look at the 14 Cracker Jack James Scott in the current auction graded a PSA 5. The same exact card sold as a PSA 4 in January. Exact same card but now this PSA 5 has an above average 30% eye appeal? And on top of that the PSA 4 was graded awhile back when PSA was much more lenient. I highly doubt it’s just a grade bump from a review.

Funny that, in all this talk about card doctors, your new favorite GIF is of an actual doctor.

Leon, can you see if you can get all the remaining cards for this auction pulled? I bet there are 100's still in there? He seems to like you best.:)

The thing is, if PSA has graded a card as a "6", and I sell it as a "PSA 6", how have I done anything illegal?

If I know the card used to be a PSA 4, and it is now a PSA 6, how have I done anything illegal? Cards are routinely resubmitted and regraded constantly, with different grades; how do I determine which grade is correct? Answer is, I go by PSA's latest opinion.

Now, if I take a PSA 4 card, remove it from the holder, alter it, and then resubmit it to PSA, and PSA regrades it as a 6, how is that illegal? There is no law prohibiting it. PSA's "policy" is that certain alterations would preclude that card from getting a numerical grade; while some alterations are perfectly acceptable. That is only PSA's internal "policy" though; it is not codified in law. If it is now a PSA 6, and I sell it as such, that is not illegal.

Beckett grades "sheet-cut" cards. PSA doesn't. If I get an uncut sheet of 1979 Topps hockey, and cut the Gretzky out of it, and submit it to Beckett, they'll grade it. If I send it to PSA, they say in their "policy", that they won't grade it. But say in this instance, PSA grades the card as a 10; and I in turn, sell it as a PSA 10. How is that illegal? It is legal. Some collectors may not like it, but there is nothing "illegal" about it.

Steve

I doubt every single one is tainted. . If a card is obviously trimmed, or altered in a bad way, and is in a live auction, I will be happy to send Brent an email. He said in a post, some will believe him some won't, that he has counsel and is working with authorities. At least those are 2 good things. I am watching how it plays out just like everyone else. There is some great detective work going on. I am all for getting rid of fraud in the hobby. I hope those committing fraud are all held accountable. It only helps all of the good collectors/dealers/flippers/LCS owners, AH's etc..

Yes it is. Thank you, and I think another fellow board member helped as well. I am glad. One less bad one out there. I have no skin in that game (not my card and never was), but I strongly believe it used to sit in a psa 4 case and had brown crap under the right arm.

C. The SGC grader was having a bad day, was in a bad mood, and/or, thought he saw something that wasn't there, and graded the card lower than it deserved.

Steve

And I agree with Leon, many - in fact, most - of the cards in pwcc’s auction are probably 100% fine. Bid accordingly or boycott altogether, but I do fear collateral damage that comes from this.

Not sure if it was this thread or a few of the others... it’s getting tough to keep track...

But Brent was asked multiple times which branch of law enforcement he is working with. Has he provided an answer? Is it the FBI, Local Police, State Police, Internet Police? Or perhaps it’s the branch of law enforcement OJ used to find the Real Killer. Perhaps we shouldn’t set our hopes too high. :(

Well if that’s even plausible, then grading is even more senseless than originally thought.

Just curious but were you aware of what is currently going on with PWCC and PSA prior to bidding on that card or was it a card you knew was coming up long before this latest scandal came to light?

It is more than plausible.

Several years ago, I bought a raw 1910-era HOFer tobacco card from a very well known and respected member of these boards, and auction house owner. The seller is extremely knowledgeable about tobacco cards. I sent it in to PSA. They said it was "trimmed", and returned it to me unslabbed.

I contacted the seller, and he assured me the card was completely original and un-tampered with. I believed him. I checked the card myself, and found absolutely no signs of tampering.

A couple years later, I resubmitted the card to PSA, and they graded it a "4". I still have it.

Both Net54 and the CU message boards are full of posts from people who have submitted cards, only for them to come back to them either ungraded, or with low grades. The common term used is that the cards were looked at by the G.O.D., or "Grader of Death".

That is just considering cards that were graded multiple times by the same company. There are even more instances regarding cards originally graded by one company, and then sent to one of the other TPGs, where they received differing grades. That can simply be caused by differing standards between the two TPGs, but could also be related to an overly harsh first-look.

Steve

Respectfully, to me knowingly enabling a card doctor (even one) for a decade makes one a fraudster, and if one wants to get rid of fraud in the hobby, one should not associate or affiliate with fraudsters. Just my opinion.

IMO NOBODY aware of the current climate can come bellyaching here or to PSA, if any PWCC card bid on from today forward is found to be altered, regardless of the grade assigned by a TPG.

“We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess.”

Damm. That’s a wonderful trial exhibit after Brent gets up and denies all responsibility. Trial lawyers dream about stuff like that.

I was an aware, as much as my fellow bidders. Also aware if something was wrong with the card, I’d return it...
(But I guess that carries a bit of default risk)

I'm quoting this. Literally cant belive what I'm reading. You've been cheerleading for PWCC all along.

Stuff trumps all, and it couldnt happen to a better rube. As Bozo would say " juuuuust keeeeeep bidding"

The dreaded branch of law enforcement known as the mirror.

Cheerleading for a discount when there is blood on the streets...

No, HIDING behind a return policy!

UN'beliveable

Sleep with dogs and you'll get fleas brutha

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

BO has a tweet from Brent claiming he just learned about Moser, as I read it.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=478

Agreed. You don’t have to stop bidding, but don’t complain if you get bit.

LOL. Right. Got it. Hopefully we're not all as stupid as he clearly thinks we are.

He was made aware -- 15 years ago. He will say anything to anyone, depending on what he thinks they want to hear. It's incredible. No apparent restraint.

Apparently Mr Comsevation has issued another statement where he flips on Moser. Anybody have the link to it?

So reminiscent of Doug Allen, to me. The same utter disregard for the intelligence of other people and same utter belief in his own infallibility.

LOL I just posted it a few posts above you.

Maybe he's going with a mental health defense?

That's a bold move swarmee, let's see if it pays off.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EMSoRMT9d...hdad%2Bbob.jpg

I mean, why is he still talking? He still thinks he can convince people of his inward virtue.

There may be one where PWCC says the name, not just “a consignor”

I’ve been looking for it but can’t find it either - May be part of a piece written by one of the news sources, or maybe it’s just not there

First post in this thread.

I think the SportsCardRadio article quotes Betsy saying "We know who Moser is." It's also posted in the first post in this thread by Brent himself. Written in the passive voice.

What is your opinion on money laundering.

Rovell on Twitter
 

Wow

I believe that's the thread or whatever the right noun is where the post or whatever the right noun is from Brent, pretending only recently to have heard about Moser, appears.

You say this often. How many times does a person say they need to regain my trust? This is the way a junkie talks, because they are sick.

This a crying shame. I don’t think there can be more than a handful of these out there, and now there is evidence that one of these beauties has been tainted. While no alteration is acceptable, some cards should be untouchable (pun intended)

Now working to regain your trust.

Oh here we go...i’m having flashbacks to reagans statements during the iran contra affair.

These people don't give a damn, Ryan, as long as they make a dollar.

Infraction given for political comment. Please keep politics out of it.

So I suppose if I had stuck to denying that mass murders of children in schools never happened or that 911 was a conspiracy and it never happened I would not have received 3 minutes in the box?

/

What happens to the Moser cards, and other altered cards, once they are uncovered and returned to PWCC (or PSA or whoever) for refund? Will they be destroyed? I mean its just an altered card, they're not forgeries or anything, and in some cases might be rare and still hold significant value, even as an altered card

For all the talk of legal vs illegal, the main takeaway for me from all of this is that I can't and won't trust anything in Brent's auctions ever again.

Jason Schwartz
Chicago, IL

A bit altruistic, but I would hope it’s donated to a museum. Still eye candy at the end of the day. They could at least take a tax cut on the donation of their cost.

I would hope they would use them to educate their graders.

Maybe they should all be put in pedigree holders. "Moser/PWCC Scandal-2019". Actually might fetch a premium in years to come, lol. Just look at the PSA 8 Wagner and it's history. Just the story behind it is more than likely to attract more potential bidders and higher bids the next time it is up for sale.

Good question. What if PSA makes good on these and labels them Authentic Altered? Does that really suffice? What's to keep someone from cracking it out and resubmitting it again hoping for a numerical grade? For those that believe PSA had no involvement, if it slipped by and they graded it once, what's to keep it from slipping by and getting graded again? That's of course if you really believe PSA is an innocent pawn in all this. I think they're part of the scam.

Given it’s a crisis of confidence, they should prevent cracking them for resubmission. Either donate or brand the cards.

We will see them at auction again and again, just with new holders.

When have you ever seen PSA make good on anything? Especially their written guarantee?

For those that bought as pure investment, they might not want to give up those cards. It would be a break even. What's to keep them from holding onto the cards a couple years for this to all blow over and then turning a profit?

Yes, sort of like this
http://www.philatelicfoundation.org/...and-forgeries/

It might blow over in a couple of weeks, knowing the history of this hobby.

The reserve is based on prior experience so clearly they have bought back some volume of cards. But what we don't see is the volume of requests denied.

They fight everyone to the death unless they are sued or have their arms twisted.

Just fulfilling their duty to shareholders to maximize the bottom line.:D

After reading all of this I have a concern that I have not seen anyone address. What happens if/when people stop trusting PSA as THE grading company? That is where everyone with a PSA slabbed card will take a hit. Lets just say even a small amount of people start second guessing PSA cards. That might be a few less bidders on your items or maybe your buy it now listing does not sell at the price you want. That is where the real damage can occur. Think about if the value of PSA slabbed cards just drops a little bit over this situation. That could be millions in lost value in small increments. This effect can go way beyond the altered cards in question.

you mean like now as far as not trusting PSA????? i think most on here...I know I have..... thought about this very scenario.