OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Cat (ret.)</b><p>First, wouldn't it be easier to come up with a list of those that WON'T be named?<br /><br />Second, I'll take a speculative guess at those who are:<br /><br />1. All Dominican Players<br />2. Any Player that had his best season after age 36<br />3. Any Pitcher that has had a major injury since 1998<br />4. Any Player playing after age 40<br />5. All Players from the 2003 Red Sox (excluding Nomar perhaps)<br />6. Any Player who says they have an "in season" weight-lifting regiment<br /><br />Those who may not:<br /><br />7. Angels, Padres, and Dodgers players; and this doesn't mean they didn't take, this just means they had a different method of acquisition (Vlad will be but not necessarily tied to his Angels days) and therefore may not have made this list. The Dominican players have acquisition methods that go back to their minor league days.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Frankly, Todd, I wasn't directing my comment to you. It just seems that sometimes posters will defend their heroes on here even at the expense of common sense despite the fact that we're all rational adults now. As long as the Gonzo poster isn't hanging in your room, I'm going to presume you are still capable of being objective on the issue.<br /><br /><br /><br />

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>That picture of Gonzalez is insane.<br /><br />Wow.<br /><br />-Al

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>for arguements sake, lets say every player from the 90s took 'roids. if it wasn't illegal/banned until like 2003 or something then what can be done? <br /><br />Will this report name players who took steroids AFTER it was banned? I just think they should quit worrying about who took it when it was legal because obviously we won't ever know of EVER person that ever took it. <br /><br />Concentrate on cleaning up the present and suspend the player for a full season (first offense) or forever (2nd offense) if they are caught with illegal/banned PEDs. That should clean up the game a little.<br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I'm certainly not the first person to note Schilling (nor Gonzo for that matter). Grace and Williams might be a stretch but Williams did have four nice long years hanging out with Mr. Bonds in San Francisco. Speculation is just that, speculation. Jim's initial response was to SPECULATE who might be part of the document. If the D'backs or whoever is your team, there is, as was stated earlier, nothing personal. I can see being for your team and it's players but if you'd be surprised by ANYTHING that might have happened in baseball over the last 10-15 years, then objectivity is out the door............

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Steroids usage has been officially banned by MLB since 1991, but they didn't test for it until 2003. Beyond baseball's rulebook, illegal drugs are illegal as long as they were and are illegal. Bud Selig and Donald Fehr have as much legal power and ability to legalize illegal drugs within baseball as they have to annex Russian into the American League. In other words, none. If you asked Fehr if MLB agreements ever make illegal drug use legal within baseball, he might respond "Not unless Bud Selig and I want to time in prison."<br /><br />Players have considered taking steroids cheating since before then, which is why they refuse to talk about it or admit taking them. If they didn't consider it cheating, it wouldn't be the taboo subject that it is. If it wasn't considered cheating, players would have no problem admitting they took it before there was penalty and there would be no need to make silly excuses when they are caught. If it wasn't considered cheating, the many players who did wouldn't have risen up and demanded that there be testing and penalties. If it wasn't considered cheating players wouldn't threaten a libel case against Jose Canseco when their names are mentioned in his book. You don't sue for libel because someone wrote you like apple pie or that you walk dogs, or even that you like the Chicago Bears when you really like the Philadelphia Eagles. You sue for libel in part because some wrote something that you personally feel reflects horribly on you as a player and as person and damages you. In the case of threatened suits against Canseco, players felt that claims of steroids usage reflected horribly upon them as men and as players and portrayed their statistical accomplishments as being aided by cheating. As demonstrated by Rafael Palmeiro and Barry Bonds, who were two who threatened libel suit against Canseco and used steroids (one tested positive and admitted, the other admitted under oath), this is the feeling about steroids usage even amongst players who used steroids. So the players' feelings about usage of steroids is clear-- they themselves consider it cheating and wrong, even when they do it.<br /><br />The steroids equation is as follows: 1) If it didn't help their performance, players wouldn't take steroids. 2) If they didn't think taking steroids was wrong (cheating) they would freely talk about their usage.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>bill latzko</b><p>bucky dent!!!!!!!!

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Todd,<br /><br />You are no doubt aware of the article 'The Bagwell Conspiracy". For others not aware I will quote:<br /><br />"Gonzalez took his own advice that off season, though, having seen so many teams with the juice, and began pumping steroids into his puny little body. As the veins came out of his arms, his hits began to fly out of the park, and Gonzales watched his production increase each of the next five years from 10 home runs in 1997 to 57 home runs in 2001. Gonzales would reunite wiith Finley in Arizona in 1999 and together they convinced Jay Bell and Matt Williams, two veterans in the twilight of their years to juice as well. Bell and Williams, each of whom hit 20 homers the year before, increased their home run totals to 38 and 35 respectively and managed to salvage their eroding skills and halt their fading careers."<br /><br />More on Gonzalez in this article as well as a whole host of players.<br /><br />Among the others implicated in the article are:<br /><br />Jeff Bagwell<br />Pete Incaviglia<br />Lenny Dykstra<br />Karl Rhodes<br />Sammy Sosa<br />Steve Finley<br />Ken Caminiti<br />Wally Joyner<br />Greg Vaughan<br />Phil Nevin<br />Tony Clark<br />Bobby Higginson<br />Melvin Nieves<br />Bob Hamelin<br />Travis Fryman<br />Tony Gwynn(sigh)<br />Jason Giambi<br />Matt Stairs<br />Ben Grieve<br />John Jaha<br />Eric Chavez<br />Miguel Tejada<br />Reggie Sanders<br />Sean Casey<br />Ed Taubensee<br />Jeff Hammonds<br />Mike Cameron<br />Pokey Reese<br />Junior(sigh)<br />Mike CameronJ<br />Jay Buhner<br />Edgar Martinez<br />John Olerud<br />Bret Boone<br />Aaron Boone<br />Scott Servais<br />Barry Bonds<br />Benito Santiago<br />Andres Gallaraga<br />Jeff Kent<br />Morgan Ensberg<br />Craig Biggio<br />Richard Hidalgo<br />Rich Aurelia<br /><br />Great article! Not sure its all true but filled with anecdotes--I bet most is.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Thanks for the post. Craig Biggio too, sigh.<br /><br />Peter C.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Do me a favor, do not under any circumstances delete that last post.<br /><br />This is what Jim would have pass for investigative journalism. Please note that not one source is cited, and the author does not offer one bit of explanation as to how he came up with his "findings". Read on and draw your own conclusions:<br /><br /><a href="http://asher.baseballevolution.com/bagwellconspiracy.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://asher.baseballevolution.com/bagwellconspiracy.html</a>

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Why would I delete it?<br /><br />Said I wasn't sure it was all true but it is filled with anecdotes and I bet most of it is true.<br /><br />You are very defensive about Luis Todd? We are only speculating here and trying to draw from whatever sources we can.<br /><br />

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>Popeye- I never did beleive that spinach theory.<br /><br />Rick

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Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>I won't answer because reckless disregard of truth or falsity is libelous. <br /><br />I, like everyone, has suspicions. But speculation has gone overboard.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ed, are you concerned that after Barry gets through with Curt he'll come after you? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>No. I just wanted to see if my mind retained any of that jargon from the bar exam.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, depending upon when you took it I'm impressed. If you can still (ever?) explain the Rule of Perpetuities, however, I'll be floored.

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Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>Capable of vesting, lives in being. No sweat.<br /><br />It's that fertile octagenerian garbage that trips me up.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yeah, on that one my advice would be to always use birth control just to be safe.

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Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>Got me laughing, Jeff. Still, can't defeat "capable" with less than 100% proven reliability. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />The Rule Against Perpetuities is itself laughable. New York legislators have made some sensible reforms to it.<br /><br />Now, back to juice talk. It's all the rage these days.<br /><br />

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>brock</b><p>I could see Curt Schilling's name coming up on the list. He had played with players that took it(2001, and i could see him of taken during 2004 game 6 of ALCS). And i could see David Ortiz as one to, he was small with the Twins and only hit 20 home runs and then comes to the sox's gains weight and then starts to hit 40-50 home runs.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Richard Masson</b><p>Gagne<br />Beltre<br />LoDuca

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Hey everyone.....consider this, if you are making the the big $$$$$ these guys are making you are probably eating<br /> pretty darn good....and, certainly better than most. Compound that with "pumpimg iron" in your younger days, and <br />then that muscle build-up turning to fat by the time you are in your mid-30's. So, you are looking quite "bulked-up".<br />But, that doesn't automatically suggest you are on steroids.<br /><br />No, I don't believe Gwynn or Schilling are on steroids as has been alluded to here on a prior post. They are "heavy" <br />simply because of my above stated reasons.<br /><br />TED Z

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Todd,<br /><br />Sorry to say Matt is in the news today as buying steroids and HGH. IMO, Gonzalez will follow and probably at least 1 other teammate.<br /><br />Tom,<br /><br />Was that your call on Matt Williams--good one.<br /><br />How did noone name Guillen--in retrospect that seems like an easy one.<br /><br />The Mitchell report should be very interesting.

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Has anyone SEEN Tony Gwynn? Steroids? More like Twinkies...<br /><br />Who next, Mickey Lolich?

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Terry Forster.<br /><br />-Al

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Joe Steffens</b><p>Look at Tony Gwynn's late career surge. He went from being essentially washed up at age 32 to having his best power years after age 35. I wouldn't be surprised if he was implicated.

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Posted By: <b>Howard</b><p>Didn't Jose Canseco say that he had some dirt on A-Rod that he would reveal in his next book?<br /><br />If A-Rod is implicated before he signs a contract how do you guys think that will affect the $$$ he gets?

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>From what I see, he followed a pretty typical downward spiral. His BA stayed up but he had only 1 full season after age 34 due to injuries (and had the amazing total of 17 home runs that year). His SLG #s were pretty much the same. Compare that with the other guys and you will see a marked difference.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Scott T</b><p>I don't think Gwynn will be named in the Mitchell report.<br /><br />I cannot deny that he added 40 pounds (at least) during his career, but I don't think it was from "the cream and the clear". It was from the "the biscuits and the gravy".<br /><br /><br><br>Scott <br />

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Scott,<br /> I agree... Tony has always enjoyed eating and makes no bones about it, no pun intended. But, he always loved road games in Atlanta, where good fried chicken, biscuits(gravy or not), and barbeque are always on the menu. Not to mention all of the great Steak places in the area.... Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS I'm with Tony... I like to eat too... but not quite that much.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Jantz</b><p>"Moonlight" Graham....well since he never got an at-bat....we will never know! Hmmmmm.<br /><br />Jantz

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Tony Gwynn gave an alternative explanation for why he was better the second half of his career. He met Ted Williams.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Joe S.</b><p>By late career power surge, I am referring to the increase in Tony Gwynn's slugging percentage. I'll admit he was never a great home run hitter.<br /><br />At age 32 Gwynn slugged .415, the lowest percentage of his career. But the next year, his slugging percentage made an abrupt jump. Then he had his career high at age 34. At age 37 and 38, he slugged over .500. He never came close to a .415 slugging percentage for the remainder of his career.<br /><br />That's not the normal career trajectory that players in the 1950s and 1960s had. Check out guys like Rocky Colavito, Harvey Kuenn (Not a HR hitter, but he essentially was finished by his early 30s), or Eddie Mathews. BTW - those guys were contemporaries of Ted Williams. Perhaps other factors, like the new offense friendly ball parks, helped Gwynn.<br /><br />Roberto Alomar is a guy who, based on his career trajectory, I believe never took steroids.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Chris Counts</b><p>"11 free agents are named in the forthcoming George Mitchell report and have been notified by the commissioner's office, the Boston Globe reports. It's still unknown when the Mitchell report will be made public, but there's been nothing recently to suggest it will happen by the winter meetings. Jose Guillen is one of the 11 players fingered, and we assume Barry Bonds is in there somehow as well. Several others will remain mysteries for a while longer."<br /><br />Source: Boston.com, Nov. 8, 5:23 pm<br /><br />It sounds like some more names will be coming soon ...<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Chris,<br /><br />Thanks for the update. However, in a way it doesn't matter who is named. MLB doesn't have any penalties for being named in the Mitchell Report.<br /><br />Furthermore, as long as the player can continue to produce they will continue to get the huge contracts. Look at Paul Byrd.<br /><br />Peter C.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Chris Counts</b><p>Any guess who the 11 will be? No doubt Jose Guillen is one of them. There's quite a few perennial candidates in this year's free agent class. Aside from Guillen, here are a few players bound to be considered ...<br /><br />Bobby Abreu (disappearing power)<br />Luis Gonzalez (one shot power wonder)<br />Roger Clemens (I bet he retires)<br />Barry Bonds (I wish I could believe him, but I can't)<br />Mark Sweeney (Bonds once pegged him)<br />Jason Kendall (disappearing power)<br />Sammy Sosa (does anyone doubt it?)<br />Eric Gagne (from mediocre to unhittable overnight)<br />Marcus Giles (long speculated, declining power)<br />Shawn Green (vanishing power and physique)<br /><br />I wouldn't be surprised if the list includes a few guys who have battled back from endless injuries, players like Aaron Sele, Reggie Sanders, Rondell White and Kerry Wood. Given how much each of these four guys has gone through to stay in the game, I wouldn't blame them for trying something. Let the speculation begin ...

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The information is coming from a limited amount of sources. This means that the players listed may not be a cross section of baseball. For example, one witness was a Mets clubhouse attendant, who may have zero information about Rockies or Angels or Cubs. This also means that if a player is not 'listed' that does not mean he did not use. The common idea that Mitchell will or can provide a list of any and all players who used is incorrect.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Bud Selig and MLB set a bad precedent when they let Jason Giambi off the hook for using steroids. Now other players implicated by the Mitchell report will expect the same treatment.<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Bumping these O/T posts is really obnoxious. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Release scheduled tomorrow.<br /><br />Some 60-80 players or former players expected to be named. <br /><br />Last chance to change your bets.

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Even though I am a Cincinnati Reds fan, my dark horse is Ken Griffey Junior.<br /><br />My reasons:<br /><br />1) He WAS a dominant Home Run hitter during the 1990's.<br />2) He played on the West Coast (closer to the labs, more trips to Oakland and thus easier to get to the source in person).<br />3) Is a good friend of Bonds and according to "Game of Shadows", was in attendance at a dinner where Bonds talked about McGwire and Sosa. A dinner where Bonds said he was going to start juicing.<br />4) After being traded to the Reds, has suffered NUMEROUS injuries. These include leg injuries and ligament and tendon injuries. Things that some of the medical people I have talked to said COULD have been affected by steroid use.<br />5) Lives in Orlando, Florida. The city where a MAJOR drug bust occured at a pharmacy and the Owners and some employees were arrested for distributing steroids across the country and to Pro athletes.<br /><br />I have NO proof that KGJ "juiced" BUT because of the above coincidences, I wont be surprised if his name shows up on the list.<br /><br />David

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Bonds never took 'roids. His secret weapon was elk splooge!

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Posted By: <b>TONY Galovich</b><p>Tommy LaSorda

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Posted By: <b>Jim Crandell</b><p>Pujols on the List!?

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Pujols? Ugh<br /><br />Pettite? <br /><br />What would Jesus say? Aren't these guys super religious?

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Chris Counts</b><p>CNBC just released this list ...<br /><br />Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Jim Crandell</b><p>And Bagwell!??! Goodbye HOF and "The Bagwell Conspiracy" gains credence.

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Posted By: <b>Jim Crandell</b><p>Something tells me this is the Tip of the Iceberg.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Jeff -- why are you bringing religion into this. What does going to church (or temple) have to do with taking steroids? <br /><br />Hypocrisy is what it is, but I'm not sure taking HGH means you don't, or shouldn't, believe in God. And last time I checked, steroids weren't on the can't do list on tablets. They weren't even on the can't do list in the commissioner's office until fairly recently.

OT: The Mitchell Report: Who Will Be Named??
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Dawson</b><p>ESPN is reporting right now that Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte are on the list.<br /><br /><br />Steve