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T206 REF. TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
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Bill King You are correct......and, you are tonight's Trivia Quiz King. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...duCrandall.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lHINDUx25b.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...andallT205.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ndallT205b.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF. TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
Doc Crandall was one of the first pitchers to be used primarily in relief. And, Crandall was one of the last Major League players
to split his time between pitching and playing the field during the same season. His WON - LOST pitching record was 102 - 62. Plus, he was a really good-hitting Pitcher (career BA = .285), batting over .300 for 4 seasons. McGraw used Doc as a pinch-hitter over 100 times in his career. Crandall's 460-only Series card is in the group which I refer to as the Exclusive 12. I have been working on T206 runs of these 12 subjects. Displayed here is a near complete run. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lHINDUx25b.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...OLDMILLx25.jpg .https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BxAB460x25.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...xAB460x25b.jpg Factory #42 https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...dxCY460x25.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...xCY460x25b.jpg Factory #30 TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Quote:
Doc Crandall was printed with 13 different T206 backs (as were all of the Exclusive 12 subjects). I need his EPDG....TOLSTOI....UZIT cards to complete this run. 156 cards (12 subjects x 13 backs) complete an Exclusive 12 master sub-set. I have made great progress on the runs of 8 of these 12 subjects. I can attribute this progress to a number of members in this forum who have provided me these cards. I appreciate the help, guys. And, if you have any of these three to offer me (or who to contact), please email me..... tedzan11@comcast.net. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Just a friendly bump in order to solicit a few more inputs regarding Doc Crandall. Crandall is an underrated ball-player, considering the versatility in which he played the game (a very effective Starting and Relief Pitcher.....Infielder....Pinch-Hitter). I have just his T206, T205 and T207 cards. If you have some other types of Doc Crandall cards, feel free to show them here. I would really appreciate seeing them. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...itboxncard.jpg . . . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...itboxncard.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...duCrandall.jpg . . . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...andallT205.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ndallT205b.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...oCap%20_2_.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Exclusive 12 project......Doc Crandall back-run (near complete)
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https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Whoopee-Do ....After several years of searching, I finally acquired Doc Crandall's EPDG and TOLSTOI cards. This run is now 92% complete I can't speak for you T206 (or T205) guys, but these challenging Tobacco runs are an enjoyable adventure for me. Attaining a near complete T-set is certainly a great project. But, when it's done, it's done...." FINISHED ! ". Whereas, these individual T206 runs are virtually "endless". Quote:
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...toiX%20_2_.jpg .https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...EPDG%20_2_.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DeGales25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...toiB%20_3_.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Exclusive 12 project......Russ Ford back-run (nearly complete)
Progress on my Exclusive 12 group back-runs has slowed down, lately. The total number of T206's in this adventure is 156 (12 subjects x 13 backs).
Here is my Russ Ford back run. I need the UZIT and EPDG to complete his 13-card run. I am hoping to find his EPDG card at the National this week. Perchance, if I am really-really lucky, I may find the nearly impossible UZIT card of Ford to complete this 13-card run :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2FordRHx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...FordRHx50b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SCxOMxTolx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vSCxOMxTol.jpg Factory #42 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2ovptPBx25.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ovptPBx25b.jpg Factory #42 Factory #30 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cfactory30.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hey guys,
Looking forward to seeing you at the National this week. I will be set-up with Sal at booth #908. I have an eclectic assortment of cards from 1887 - 1974 for sale or trade. Prices are reasonable....and "Talkin' Baseball", and all Baseball card conversations are free :) I will be there Tuesday - Thursday, only. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hey ted...hope to meet up with you at the national...talk some t206!
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Wow, I'm shocked as well Pat. Can you post the scan (as long as the owner wouldn't mind)?
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T206 REF....To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT I had a great National Show in A/C.....the majority of cards I sold (as usual) were T206's. Graded T206's, and mostly Un-graded T206's. Rare backs and common backs. Talking T206's with customers, I was surprised to find, that many of the cards in their collections were Not-Graded. This does create some ambiguity as to the accuracy of pop reports reflecting the true numbers of many T206's. Most of these conversations were with collectors who had near-complete sets. As many of you know, I have completed 3 sets.....PIEDMONT....SOVEREIGN....SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 (no Wagner's). I would never consider stacking 1398 plastics containing all these T206's. The majority (97%) of them are in plastic sheets in binders. Especially arranged according to the 6 series of the T206 set. There are approximately 60 cards Graded among all 3 of these sets. Enough said.....please chime in and tell us your story regarding your preference.....T206 cards GRADED, or Not Graded ? ? Examples of the nicer looking Ungraded cards in my All - PIEDMONT set. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...iedmont150.jpg----http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...llinsSCx25.jpg----http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ackjohnson.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I previously put together a near complete set of 1953 Topps graded PSA 5-7. I was within 10 cards or so of finishing. The cards were in 2 of those big BCW cardboard boxes, and I honestly never ever looked at the cards after I received them and put the slab in the perfect fit sleeves. They just went into the box and sat there.
When I got very close to completion of the set, I realized that I had spent exponentially more time looking through my Excel file, remembering what cards I needed, what grades things were in, what I had paid for them, than I had actually looking through my set and enjoying it. That was kind of the tipping point and why I ended up selling the set over 6 months or so. When I turned to T206, I decided that if I was going to invest the time and resources into collecting another big set, I needed to actually get more enjoyment out of the cards themselves, and a binder would be the only way for me to do that. That was easier for me to do because I decided I was going to focus on lower grade sets and sub-sets of T206. Looking back on it, it was the best decision I've made. I look through my T206 binder multiple times a week, every week. When a new card comes in, I flip through the binder pages until I get to the spot with the paper placeholder slip, then I insert the new card into its page, and then I continue flipping through the rest of the pages. If my focus was collecting the set in PSA 6 or higher, or I had cards worth $20k+, then I would probably leave them in the graded slabs. Buying lower grade examples removes this worry for me at this point. |
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Ungraded for my set and I love the rare and unique. I’ve always wondered how many binder sets there are out there. Here are a couple shots of the fun sides…
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My T206's cards are close to 50-50 personally I prefer ungraded by far but I do sell and trade my cards and even though I think the gap has narrowed in most cases the difference in prices realized is enough to justify having them graded.
I removed several of my plate scratch cards and when I sold the doubles I kept the ungraded examples and sold the graded if I had one. Attachment 531314 |
This is a topic i am currently struggling with...where to move from here in my t206 efforts....i have a 521 set, with most hof graded, but a mix of sgc new/ sgc old / psa slabs. my pref is new sgc slabs....also a mix of off and common backs. yet i have a second set (minus maybe 15) which is also a mix.....what to do? sell off extras and only do binder? do both graded and raw separately? i think i will create a separate post to get ideas.
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To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Pat Since 1999, I have been acquiring GRADED cards, the majority of which I have cracked open. I lost count years ago; however, somewhere I have stashed away more than 1000 "flips". Most of them are T206's. And if I have intentions of eventually selling (or trading) a given card, it stays in Graded plastic. If it's a "keeper" of any significance, I pop the card out and insert it in Hi-Quality mylar. I would guess that you have cracked open many, many more than 1000 graded cards. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...e/TPGflips.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I would only grade if you were selling. My set has 5 graded cards that I bought already graded. Everything else is raw and will stay that way until they go to an AH to sell.
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Even after I cracked some of them out over a third of the plate scratches I had were graded. Here's are images most of the ones I had before I sold some of my doubles. Attachment 531399 Attachment 531400 Attachment 531401 |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Pat Sure is an impressive array of T206 cards (Graded & Ungraded). Large groups of T206's always look great on a computer screen. Thanks for posting. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT I was asked by a Net54 "reader" to elaborate on the meaning of this which I stated in Post #1412...... "Especially arranged according to the 6 series of the T206 set." I arrange my T206 cards in the binders with respect to the SERIES in which they were printed in. Starting with the 150-only group. Then followed by these SERIES..... 150/350 group 350-only group Southern Leaguer group 350/460 group 460-only group. I find that this practice reinforces my mind to remember the structural sequence of when (and how) these 524 cards were issued. Example excerpt of 150/350 series PIEDMONT cards https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cds25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cds25B.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I have my binder arranged like this:
Hall of Famers // divider Southern Leaguers // divider Sweet Caporal 150/649 OP sub set // divider Sweet Caporal 460/42 OP sub set // divider "The Rest" alphabetically I debated sorting "the rest" by print group but I don't feel like removing cards from album pages at this point to shift things around again. |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT And, a couple of example 15-card pages from my SOVEREIGN set binder...... Example excerpt of 350 series SOVEREIGN ("apple-green") cards (66 subjects total) https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ies15cd25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cd25xb.jpg Example excerpt of 460-only series SOVEREIGN cards (46 subjects total) https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cds25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...15cds25xbb.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT Depicted here is a 15-card sheet from my SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set. The cards in this set are arranged such, that the HOFer's and valuable cards are together. And the commons in their respective Series follow in the subsequent sheets in the binder. I have only 6 graded cards in this set of 468 subjects. My pride and joy, Eddie Plank, completes this this set (I consider it "complete" without the Wagner card). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xb.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...cap30stars.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...p30stars_1.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Why not throw in some motion? https://i.postimg.cc/VLfHCMJF/PBprogressreduced.gif The full-size version is here: https://i.postimg.cc/N0ZRLMyT/PBprogressfull.gif |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Hey guys, any of you interested in smoking a 111 year old American Beauty cigarette :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...igpackt206.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...auty460b34.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ndilSGC60x.jpg My AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) sub-set is 99% complete (73 cards of 74). Contrary to my aforementioned three T206 sets, this AB 460 run includes 32 Graded cards (44%). For the most part, the AB 460 cards are very underrated in terms of scarcity. The majority of the 350/460 Series (28) cards range from being quite tough to very tough to find. Of the AB 460 cards (46) in the 460-only Series, 34 of them are also quite tough to find. In this Series, the easier AB 460 cards to find are the Exclusive 12. Therefore, I will get the AB 460 cards any way I can find them (Graded or Un-Graded). I am not really opposed to Graded cards. I do prefer Un-graded, because I love to hold the cardboard in my hands; and, I certainly do NOT like spending $25 to $100+ for a piece of plastic (with a #) for a card, whose value is less than the cost for Graded it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Come on guys, let's hear your opinions on this subject. Take some time for a meaningful discussion and some pictures.....Thanks. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT In the Fall of 2007, I had completed my All - Sovereign set of 408 subjects. I was confident that I had figured out which T206's were not printed with Sovereign backs. And, I am happy to say that my extensive research paid off, as my list of SOVEREIGN No-Prints have withstood the test of time. Here is a sample of some of the 26 cards which still remain Graded (6.4 %) in this set of 408. . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Blak%20_2_.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ChaB%20_2_.jpg Pardon me (if you don't mind), I'm curious to hear from T206 collectors with near complete sets that are entirely GRADED, how do you store these 400 - 500+ cards ? Furthermore, how often do you look at your T206's ? TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hi Ted, it’s been a while. I hope all is well. I can tell you offline where my set is. I can tell you online, I almost never look at the set now that it’s complete and I am no longer upgrading. In fact, as sad as it sounds, I rarely look at any of my actual cards, but I do often look at their images on my phone.
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To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Hi Ryan Thanks for responding. I missed you at the National. I was set-up only Tuesday - Thursday. Perhaps, we will see each other at the forthcoming Philly Show in Oaks, Pennsylvania. You have the quintessential T206 set, plus some really great T206 runs. I really appreciate that. And, I don't mean to be prying. I'm forever upgrading my sets. Sometimes when someone contacts me looking for certain card(s), I pull the card(s) from my PIEDMONT or SWEET CAPORAL binders (never from my SOVEREIGN set). Then I eventually replace these card(s). Take care, my friend. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Speaking about an all - T206 SOVEREIGN SET. Besides mine, I know of three other Net54ers who have also completed this set, since I did it back in 2007. Although, this complete basic set consists of only 402 different subjects, it is not an easy set to complete. Mine is 93.6 % Un-graded. Two of the other sets that I know of are Graded, and the 3rd set (I think) is partially Graded. The Six Super-Prints ** were printed with both the SOVEREIGN 350 and SOVEREIGN 460 backs. The Super-Prints 460 back is considerably tougher to find than the regular 460-only series subjects (46) in the set. I am happy to call my set complete with 408 cards. Although, I do have about 34 more cards towards a SOVEREIGN master set of 476 cards. If you are contemplating completing a SOVEREIGN set, this red Cobb with the SOVEREIGN 460 back is a "toughie". It was the last card I needed for my set. Whatever, the main topic here still remains.....Graded vs Un-graded.....so Show-n-Tell us about your T206 cards (sets). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obbSGCx50b.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...RedCobb25x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign350x25b.jpg ** Note......The Six Super-Prints are...... https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...erprints9x.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I don't think I have any grading preference at the moment. When I first started the set, I wanted everything graded by PSA. Mainly for their Registry. But as time went on, I didn't care much. I had no problem buying raw or SGC cards. At times I would count how many raw and other TPG's I had, and then multiply them by $6 because at the time, that was PSA's bulk pricing. It was too much money and I couldn't justify it, and would rather use that same money for more T206's. Then I'd buy more cards and a year would pass, and I'd count them up again, and come to the same conclusion. Even now at $22, I wouldn't do it. Plus I have a bunch of PSA cards that need to be reholdered, so it would identify the card back, subject, and factory number. So that would be even more money.
My collection sits in BCW graded double rowed boxes. I don't get to enjoy the cards, like another member mentioned above. They are well secured but probably not to the extent as Ryan's collection. Honestly, the only time I get to enjoy the cards is when someone wants to see a scan or picture of a certain card. While I shuffle through the boxes to find the card, I see many other cards and I'm suprised to see I have them, even though I see my spreadsheet daily. So it's safe to say I don't enjoy them as much as I should. I keep them in alphabetical order. Once a year, I pull out all the boxes and set them up on a 8 foot folding table, and add in my past years purchases. I keep all the raw cards in one box, with each card in a card saver, so they are ready to grade maybe one day or if everything goes to auction. I might be open to a trade for a T206 Honus Wagner PSA 1. I might enjoy that more often. Currenly my grading breakdown of cards is: 19 BVG 4 GAI 1 GMA 1 ISA 762 PSA 321 SGC 462 Ungraded Currenly my card back breakdown is: American Beauty No Frame 350 = 21 American Beauty With Frame 350 = 48 American Beauty 460 = 11 Cycle 350 = 81 Cycle 460 = 25 EPDG = 102 Hindu Brown = 4 Old Mill Black = 193 Old Mill Blue = 1 Old Mill Black SL = 48 Piedmont 150 = 19 Piedmont 350 = 69 Piedmont 350-460 Factory 25 = 3 Piedmont 350-460 Factory 42 = 11 Polar Bear = 248 Sovereign 150 = 102 Sovereign 350 = 177 Sovereign 460 = 51 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 25 = 14 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 30 = 10 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Over Print = 31 Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 25 = 75 Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 30 = 38 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 25 = 9 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 = 12 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 No Prints = 57 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 42 = 2 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 42 Over Print = 6 Tolstoi = 99 The totals above include a few varieties and a small handful of duplicates. So, 71 Percent Is Graded. I don't see my collecting strategy changing. I'd really like to see my collection displayed like how Powell's collection was displayed. Except I would need more depth for all the back runs of each card. MY CURRENT DISPLAY (picture from a few years ago. boxes are currently much more full) https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=34408 MY FUTURE DREAM GOALS (not my display. this is Powell's display) https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=34409 |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
Hi Ron
Great story and great pictures. Thanks for posting them. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Wagner was a great ballplayer; however, I have never been fascinated with Wagner's "anti-Tobacco" story. He smoked cigars and chewed tobacco. In my opinion his T206 card is overrated and over-priced. It defies the "the law of supply vs. demand". There are approximately the same number of T206 Plank's vs Wagner's. The true anti-Tobacco dudes of that era were Connie Mack and Eddie Plank. Both of them avoided the use of tobacco in any form. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ackprogram.jpg - - - - http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
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.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg .. Sweet Caporal ..... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____...............American Beauty 460 ............................. I received an email from a Net54 "reader" asking me for the source of information for my contention that Mack and Plank refrained from using tobacco in any form. In 2007 I posted a Net54 thread....https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...caramel&page=2....of my complicated theory regarding the scarcity of the T206 Eddie Plank card, based on upon T206 cards vs E90-1 cards. Subsequently, my further research on this topic resulted in the most likely reason Plank was "short-printed". Here are the two reasons...... 1.....Connie Mack is quoted in his Biography...."Connie Mack (The Early Years of Baseball)", by Norman Macht. "The secret of Plank's pitching is no secret at all. It is a good strong arm, a powerful constitution to back it, and neither drinks, SMOKES, nor swears" 2.....I attended events of the Philadelphia A's Historical Society. A number of years ago, the guest speaker at their annual November banquet was Connie Mack III. He kept us mesmerized for 2 hours talking about his famous Grandfather. Afterwards, I had a chance to talk with him. A really friendly guy, Connie and I talked for about 30 mins. We covered a lot of A's baseball (1901 - 1953). He confirmed that his Grandfather and Eddie Plank, both had a disdain for any form of tobacco use and that they refused to endorse Tobacco products. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF.... anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
The theory I originally posted in 2007, though, is not too far-fetched. It appears that Connie Mack and Eddie Plank refused to endorse tobacco cards by not
having their image on them. Both are depicted on a number of E-cards in the early days (1909 - 1911). With the exception being the 1909 Ramly Plank. Regarding the T206 Plank, my guess is that Plank issued a "cease and desist" order to ATC to remove his card. . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nieMack25x.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...90Plank12x.jpg E96 ------------------------------------------------------------ E90-1 TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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T Cards of Wagner and Plank are rare. I believe these are the only examples (aside from maybe Fatima team cards), although there may be a MINO Plank
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I don't think we know why the Plank is rare. The Wagner story is at least a contemporary source in the newspapers (which doesn't make it true, fake news abounds), that his card was pulled because Wagner didn't want them to make it, but it is much better sourced than a line in a book many years later that isn't about the cards even.
I can see it as this, or something else. We have two documents related to the acquisition of subjects rights, the Ball letter and the contract for pugilist Dick Hyland. The letter to Ball tells him it is for tobacco cards, but the contract with Hyland does not; probably because it is a contract with the lithographers and they may have wanted to use subjects for other purposes and other product as well, or to at least leave that door open. It's possible that Plank (and Wagner) did sign a waiver, and then there was a fight over it later because they didn't know when they signed it was for pictures to be inserted into tobacco. The reason they had to get signatures was, by my understanding, only a state law in New York. After the federal prohibition on tobacco cards was removed, the ATC and their lithography partner(s) (it is unclear to me if the lithographic companies printing cards were all under American Lithogrpahic's umbrella, I have never been able to find a shred of direct evidence that Brett, for example, was a subsidiary, but much of the correspondence Pat and I have found suggests that they work awfully closely for competitors, and considering the fresh Sherman Antitrust Act laws, it makes sense they would pose as separate businesses) put together the T cards, following the 1903 (off memory it's 1903) state law. It is the program manager for at least many of the T card sets that signs the Hyland letter for the lithographers. There was no federal law yet around this at the time as far as I can tell. As a state law, I am not clear that an Athletics player who was not a New Yorker and only occasionally came to the state would have standing to bring suit or require a contract under this legislation. I don't know if we have a law historian around here... Ball was a New York Highlander when T206 was being planned (his Cleveland pose comes later, after his purchase in May 1909). Hyland was a west coast boxer in origin, but he was based in New York during the period the cards were produced. I am not clear if a Pennsylvania ball player would be covered by the law. It is possible that not everyone had to sign a contract, it is possible the lithographers had them all sign anyways, and it is possible that only New Yorkers were asked to sign waivers. This could explain how Wagner and Plank were pulled; they didn't need to agree to a waiver at all but the conglomerates didn't want to deal with a fight over such an inconsequential thing (to them), and just pulled the cards. We have records of only one lawsuit over the T cards, from Harry Porter who appeared in the T218 set of non-baseball athletes, a member of the NY Irish-American Athletic Club under whose auspices he competed. Porter sued them for the illegal use of his image under the NY state law. I'm not quite clear how this resolved as not all of the documents survive (only a summary of selected hearings on it, as far as I have been able to find), but the defense was essentially 'actually he signed a waiver and we have a copy of it', so I can't imagine he won (or the defense was taking one heck of a bold lie that would shortly after fall apart if they couldn't produce that document). But again, we have 1 lawsuit and 2 contract related pieces of evidence, all of which center around New Yorkers who would definitley be covered by the state law. I think it's possible that Plank and Wagner simply never had to give their permission at all. Wagner was pulled after making a public stink, Plank for possibly the same root thing, but the big complication with Plank is that his card was printed and pulled in 2 series. If he was pulled from series 1 and scratched off the list over contractual or 'let's not have drama' reasons, it's hard to see why he would have been reinstated. I tend to lean to that something more complicated happened with Plank, but I don't think we can really say what actually happened, there's no direct evidence of anything, just things that might reasonably fit one possibility or another. |
T206 REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
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Hi Ryan Thanks for displaying your Wagner and Plank cards. And yes, there is a MINO (T216) Plank card, and a VIRGINIA EXTRA (T216) Plank card. Furthermore, a 1911 tobacco card regional issue is the T208 Cullivan's Fireside Philadelphia A's set (18 cards) which includes Connie Mack and Eddie Plank. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lord1910WC.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
AHHHHH, the T208 Plank. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to own that card. How could I forget?!?!
And, I love that Magee, posing as Lord, almost as much as I hate Irv Young posing as Cy Young in the E98 set |
REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
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Hey Ryan Some times you gotta love them.....and some times you gotta hate them :) I presume you are referring to this E-card of "Cy Young" ? https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...CYoungClev.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Ted, that E92 is definitely ugly - most of Cy Young’s cards are, actually. But I was referring to this “Cy Young”. I think the image is found on at least one other issue too
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Boy do I have a lot of reading to do......
Bob |
T206 REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg .. Sweet Caporal ..... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____...............American Beauty 460 ............................. My favorite Wagner cards are these two in my E90-1 set. Especially, the more colorful throwing pose. I find it quite interesting that the subsequent images of these Wagner cards, which were printed for the T216 sets, are not the same image quality as the original E90-1 versions. If anyone on this forum can explain why this is so, please chime in here ? http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7.../batwagner.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rfranknagy.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rowing50xb.jpg Hey Guys.....do enjoy the WORLD SERIES, tonite...... GO - GO PHILLIES ! ! TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
Speaking about Honus Wagner, here's an interesting anecdote regarding him.
"When I was a boy growing up in Kansas, a friend of mine and I went fishing and as we sat there on the warmth of a summer afternoon we talked about what we wanted to do when we grew up. I told him I wanted to be a major league baseball player, a genuine professional like Honus Wagner. My friend said that he'd like to be president of the United States. Neither of us got our wish." :) Dwight D. Eisenhower TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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T206 REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
Does Wagner's card get any better than this ?
1909 http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...m022705A_1.jpg And, this may be his last card. 1949 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...leafwagner.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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We see inconsistency's in most set's from that time frame and having the same cards printed at different places would explain a lot of the inconsistency's we see. Using a t206 examples I wouldn't be surprised if the Magie was never corrected and it was just an error made in the printing of that card by one of the smaller "subcontractors". |
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Pro tobacco guy
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Brett doesn't seem to have done the entire printing of all the sets in Fullgraff's notebook, it looks like they probably shared contracts (T225 Hyland at Brett at least in part, T218 somewhere other than Brett), Brett appears to be a shadow subsidiary of American Lithographic. I'm still trying to find the incontrovertible proof that Brett was indeed a subsidiary or independent, but it appears these partner firms were intentionally obfuscated to avoid anti-trust problems. The correspondence, employments histories, and bizarre collaboration on very small projects between the firms doesn't make sense if they were independent though. Also still hunting for any record that Fullgraff was the PM for the T206's, or if someone else was. I'm unclear if he was the program manager for all the cards, or only some of them that were centered at the Brett subsidiary. The Plank could be something as boring as only being on one of the facilities sheets for no real reason in particular. His appearance in 2 series makes little sense with most of the more exciting theories for his SP'ing. I feel like the last couple of years we've got to a place where we know what it is we are looking for more precisely, dealing with "known unknowns" more than the "unknown unknowns" of previous. |
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