How does a group IPO a DAO?

A few posts back there was mention of a "fund" that originated at $3.1M and is now worth over $11M. The assumption is that if there were 3.1 million "shares" at the beginning, then each share would now be worth $11. What happens if I decide I want out NOW, rather than later? Are there people in line waiting to pay $11 a share for that "fund"? Who handles the transaction and logs it and how long would it take to get the funds from selling the shares?

I love how the word “democracy” is thrown around in this scheme. It’s a “democracy”, As in: Whomever has the most money (ie. stock/tokens/etc) has the democratic right to be the dictator of this fund. Most likely the originator of the fund.

Split those tokens baby…..then split ‘em again and sell ‘em again.

I also love how the words “transparent”, and “undisclosed” were rather un-ironically used within the same context.

Hope the undisclosed majority partners don’t vote to liquidate the fund and relocate to Costa Rica

;)

The problem with this statement is that essentially it’s not at all accurate.
There was a hobby long before the National Convention, local card shops and shows, and early collectors had no problem finding cards as well as other collectors to trade with, all before money was a factor at all. They also preserved much of the supply of what exists today for prewar cards, and again, they had no trouble doing this despite no hobby supplies for the most part existing.
And guess how much fraud was in the hobby then??

These were the actual “collectors” in their truest and purist form, not the modern investa-collector who thinks there needs to be money or the desire for profit just to have interest in the hobby. Unlike many here, they did it for just the love of cards. They existed before, and certainly, they can exist now despite how nefarious the “hobby” has become, which includes the endless contemporary influx of investors who care nothing whatsoever about actual cards.

I didn’t see any firm yeses on this thread. I’m curious if anyone other than the OP will put their hand up and say they’re putting their money into this arrangement. I’m skeptical that any board members actually joined in the day since this thread was posted.

For those of a certain vintage, I’m thinking the monorail salesman just came to Springfield….

Yeah, an idea is sketched out in pretty vague terms, from what is said lots of things still need to be worked out, the OP doesn't tell us much about himself, we have no idea who else is part of this or what their collecting focus is, no idea even about basics like where cards would be held, and people are just throwing money at it? Yes, tell us who you are.

Equating the (pre and post NSCC era) ease of collectors finding most of the cards they need is laughable.

Out of curiosity, I tracked down a sportscard DAO Discord chat and...well... see for yourself.

Attachment 495419

Something is happening here but you don't know what it is.
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Well, each share in your example would be worth $11/3.1 = $3.70 each. In case you wanted to sell, you would line up a buyer to purchase your shares, similar to the Collectible and RallyRd transaction marketplace. In Blowout's unopened, you may have to indicate willingness to sell to the oversight company who then offers it to the next person on the waiting list willing to buy in at your sale price.

I think the DAO idea is terrible, even worse than storing stuff in the PWCC vault. And you know how much I abhor PWCC. What if 50% of the cards bought by the DAO are later found to be trimmed in BGS and SGC holders, with no grade guarantee in force at either company? I'm sure the DAO token owners will all make the right call at that point in time. Or if the bank vault the cards are stored in is flooded. How does insurance pay out? If you're really going to be a part of this, read every document and ask every question before you throw cash in the hole.

Sports Card DAO
 

Not sure why everybody is getting so worked up lol. I haven’t asked anyone to do anything or for any money. Please continue the conversations about DAO’s if u want. FYI the members are not members from this forum they are members of the DAO
I literally just explained what a DAO was and if anyone would be interested and some ppl had a good conversation while others are jumping down my throat for I don’t know what.

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You already said you weren’t interested and made your thoughts known on blockchain yet you keep posting here with anger. You don’t have to open up this thread you realize that right?


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I think some people, including myself, interpreted you to be saying members of this forum had signed on with you, and that was the credibility gap. Because you implied they could post here if they wanted people to know who they were, which of course they could only do if they were members here.

It was clear to me he was not referring to members here nor trying to imply it but that is as far as my defense of him goes. He clearly has been working on this thing for a long time and came here, to BO and who knows where else to spread the good word. If it involves money and there is a lack of disclosure it is very concerning.

Maybe we can take a vote?

I guess I misread it then.

Don’t misinterpret my pointing out flaws in your scheme with anger. Throughout their thread you have been dismissive and evasive, not to mention deliberately misleading. You have presented a dubious scheme and are very defensive when faced with valid scrutiny.

This forum is great because there is a level of trust and honesty that allow us to make deals together. If members get burned by snake oil salesmen, that trust is destroyed. With that in mind I’m not going to be shy about questioning a con when I see one

I'm curious - why "do you know [crypto is] a con"? What's your concern exactly?

I don't know that a vintage baseball card forum is the place to have that conversation, but if you want to flip over to the Watercooler section, I'll give you an honest answer.

Sports Card DAO
 

I’ve actually been very positive and answering questions and haven’t asked anything of anyone even the legit criticisms from our members. The only thing I’ve been dismissive is ur inflammatory language when u could just not open the thread but ok carry on


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“Lol ok”

Maniac, I have been following this thread. Ignore the haters. I appreciate the post and information, even though it’s not for me. I don’t think you have said/done anything wrong/improper, at all

I never heard of a DAO before you created this thread. While it’s not for me, I recognize that many things are changing and DAOs, collectives, fractional interests, etc are all here and likely here to stay; as is crypto, which I do NOT think is a scam and I am significantly invested in. I appreciate learning about DAOs and better understanding the full market - what I am competing against as a buyer and who may ultimately be a buyer.

I think many people are scared of change, and us pre war collectors are likely more change-resistant than most (we like the old stuff and glory days). But please don’t let that discourage the discussion - pure investors/investment entities are a real part of our current “hobby”, may be permanent and forever transforming it. So I appreciate learning what’s out there/going on, as I continue to collect/invest in 2022 and beyond

I’ll be the first:

I’m in!

Yes, ignore the haters. I like the idea and the discussion

John, were you being facetious when you indicated the shares would be worth $11/$3.1? I would have figured that the shares would be worth $11 - $3.1 because that would be the amount of "profit" the fund increased from the time of its inception.

My biggest worry would not being able to line up a buyer for the shares at the $11 and taking the profit ($11 - $3.1). If you could only get $9 for each share/token (or whatever they want to call it), then wouldn't the actual value of the entire portfolio be $9M instead?

All you would have to do is try to maintain a >50% ownership and the block chain wouldn't mean crap because if you have a majority of the shares, then what you say/vote is going to be what happens with the "fund" (or whatever you want to call it).

Thanks RHotchkiss I appreciate that. Means a lot to get your input as you are one of the people I look up to here as a collector not only because ur collection is the stuff of my dreams lol but you always have an open minded perspective on the hobby.
Like I said I enjoy all discussion both positive and the ones that have questions or aren’t a fan. I know Peter_Spaeth isn’t huge on it but I’ve enjoyed his constructive perspective and curiosity.
This is a space that’s developing and it could be amazing or it could be a bust but I’m always curious and love trying new things and taking some risks here and there


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Maniac,

Agree with Ryan, you're doing nothing wrong, and these aren't scams. They are basically just setting up a partnership, LLC, or corporation to invest as a group. This isn't really anything new at all, except that they're doing it all via the internet and calling the ownership units "tokens" instead of stock or partnership interests. They are simply changing the longstanding terminology, and making it sound more modern and "cool" I guess for the younger crowd.

Heck, 20 years ago I used to review the partnership tax returns for a ladies investment club. Some well-off women each kicked in the same amount of money and they decided how they wanted to invest it then. It was more of an excuse for them to get together every few weeks or so over coffee and tea (or maybe something stronger), and complain about their husbands, or so I was told. Bottom line is, it was a group that pooled money to invest, and then got together to talk and make decisions about it in person. These DAOs have everyone interacting via the internet instead, that's really the only true difference from what I can tell so far.

Look back at what I said in post #80. They're still going to have to set these DAOs up as some type of taxable entity, and someone is going to have to follow-through to actually buy/sell things decided upon, keep some type of books and records, make sure the proper tax returns are prepared and filed, have hired and directed the attorney(s) to create and formalize the agreements and documents everyone is is going to follow, open up a bank or some type of monetary account to hold, receive , and disburse funds, designate someone responsible for handling and in charge of the bank/monetary account, decide who will be responsible to set up and manage accounts at AHs and Ebay so you have venues to buy and sell cards through, determine who is responsible for appraising the DAO if someone wants too sell their interest in it so they know what it is worth at the time, and on and on and on. And all this necessary activity generally isn't going to be free, so there are probably going to be continuing costs that may be higher than anyone would have expected, as well.

You're just setting up an investing business that still has to do everything by the current books and rules. The use of the term "Decentralized" in the naming of these supposedly new investment vehicles to me is a complete joke. As I just noted in a few of the things above, any such business is going to have to deal with and decide which person(s) will be responsible for doing all of those, and potentially so much more, and handle them for and on behalf of all the investors in the DAO. That all pretty clearly calls for some semblance of a centralized effort(s) on behalf of the operations of the business. A decentralized effort would be totally inefficient and pretty much ridiculous for operating any such business. But if they want to call them decentralized merely because of the implied connotation that the ownership group is supposedly more democratic and the decision making process is not centralized in a single person or small group, so be it. But how does that work if you have a single investor in a DAO, or small group of similar minded investors that band together, and own a voting majority of the "tokens" in the DAO? That sure sounds like it may end up being a form of centralized decision making to me after all.

Again, anyone thinking of getting into one of these, be sure to read AND UNDERSTAND FULLY, any and all documents and agreements regarding the formation and operation of any DAO before you sign or agree to anything, ever!!!

Very true (please excuse my brevity, as I am busy taping coins to the inside of a SASE for my next order of cards. Thankfully I received confirmation from the dealer by mail that they were in stock).

Brian

Thanks BobC. Some very important things to think about and consider. I appreciate you lending your voice of experience.


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Do these investments usually come with a maximum ownership stake? I guess you could easily get around that by having different accounts.

It would be interesting to get in on the bottom floor and then see what happens.

I'm still trying to visualize this.

What type of administrative fees are associated with investment vehicles like these?

I'm always interested in learning, so I appreciate the discussion. How many members are there in this DAO? What are the cards involved?

If the current value of the fund is $11 million dollars and there are 3.1 million shares, as you posit, they are worth $3.70 each, not $11 each. Up 270% from an original theoretical share price of $1. Not up 1000%, which is what it would have been from a $1 start price. That would mean the fund would have to be worth $30M+ currently. It was just bad math.

I must have misunderstood. I thought the change in value was $11M (current value) - $3.1M (original value) or about $7.9M in "profit". Therefore I was thinking the shares should be selling at the current value of $11M. It's understood that the increase in share by percentage is 11/3.1 (or about 3.55x).

Tlp
 

As a member of the Trotskyite Labor Party I am firmly against Decentralized Autonomous Organizations...as least I think I am supposed to be...Jerry

I do need some block chain for my old bikes. Chainrings and cogs too...

If there's a buyers group being put together to fund a production run I might be in if the price/ft is good.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=30871

Lot of dinosaurs on this site. Some fair questions and, but in other cases, conclusions without appropriate knowledge. But whatever. Anyway, I am interested in discussing further.