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sniffy5 07-09-2014 06:41 PM
I don't know. Boggs is in the Hall of Fame for his years in Boston. Maybe I'm wrong, but did he request to go into the Hall in a Devil Rays cap? Or was it a Yankee cap? Either way, that would explain why the Red Sox are not recognizing him...

bnorth 07-09-2014 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clydepepper (Post 1295946)
Bert Campaneris - 22 HRs in 1970 - never more than 8 any other year.

Wade Boggs - 24 HRs in 1987 - had 11 in another season, but other than that, never had more than 8 any other year.

- By the way, why in the HECK haven't the Red Sox retired Boggs' #26? Whatever the reason, it is petty.
I also think Wade Boggs # should be retired. As far as his 24 HRs in 1987 if you ever seen him take batting practice you would think 24 would be an off year. He was a homerun hitting machine during BP.

I think a lot of players did PEDs since the 1950's but do not think Wade is one of them.

packs 07-09-2014 07:05 PM
I hear people about training and being an elite athlete and I agree whole heartedly that people can build themselves naturally through a combination of training and genetics.

But just food for thought. In 1989 Ken Griffey Jr. was listed as 6'3 195. In 1998 when he hit 56 homers for a second year in a row he was listed as 6'3 205.

In 1990 Frank Thomas was listed as 6'5 240. In 1994 after winning his second MVP in a row he was listed as 6'5 257.

Pudge was 40 pounds heavier.

clydepepper 07-09-2014 07:08 PM
Woah Boys! It was not my intention to imply that either Campy or Boggs juiced...only another poor attempt at humor.

Peter- Boggs DOES deserve to have his Red Sox number retired.

Here's a question for everyone:

Who would your rate higher: Carew, Boggs, or Gwynn?

Right now, more folks would probably say Gwynn - especially if you include defense...

but what if you are just comparing who is the better pure hitter...that is my question.

clydepepper 07-09-2014 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by packs (Post 1295998)
I hear people about training and being an elite athlete and I agree whole heartedly that people can build themselves naturally through a combination of training and genetics.

But just food for thought. In 1989 Ken Griffey Jr. was listed as 6'3 195. In 1998 when he hit 56 homers for a second year in a row he was listed as 6'3 205.

In 1990 Frank Thomas was listed as 6'5 240. In 1994 after winning his second MVP in a row he was listed as 6'5 257.

Pudge was 40 pounds heavier.

...and my drivers license still lists me at 235

Peter_Spaeth 07-09-2014 07:11 PM
Gwynn, then Carew, then Boggs. :D:D But Boggs may have been the best at arguing hits and errors with the official scorer because his stats mattered so much to him.

Peter_Spaeth 07-09-2014 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1295994)
I also think Wade Boggs # should be retired. As far as his 24 HRs in 1987 if you ever seen him take batting practice you would think 24 would be an off year. He was a homerun hitting machine during BP.

I think a lot of players did PEDs since the 1950's but do not think Wade is one of them.
Yeah if given his choice Boggs almost certainly would have opted for .350 and 0 HR than, say, .290 with 30-35 HR, even if the latter would have helped his team more. The 24 year was weird, because he hit for the same high average, then he dropped to something like 5 the next year, almost as if he said FU.

clydepepper 07-09-2014 09:24 PM
I also remember him following Bo Jackson's lead-off Bomb in the '89 AS game with his own.

I recall a writer, Peter Gammons I believe, saying that Boggs would hit homers in batting practice with such precision that he would start hitting them out to left and keep going all the way around to right.

Boggs isn't the person Gwynn was and probably not Carew (I know less about him), but if that story is true, WOW

Boggs also walked a ton, something that neither Gwynn or Carew did...he was one base over 300 times in more than one season, so how could he not be helping his team?

Now, I would still probably lean to Gwynn, but give Boggs his due.

Duluth Eskimo 07-10-2014 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyC (Post 1295919)
Regarding increased muscle mass as proof of steroid use... A lot of fans just have no idea what serious training and nutrition can do to transform a body-- let alone a body that is already a genetically gifted specimen. Some people have never made intense training and nutrition a major part of their lives, and cannot fathom what the human body is truly capable of achieving. Point being that increasing lean mass and one's physique is by no means at all proof positive of steroids. I am not a pro athlete by any means at all, and at 6'1" I reduced body fat and added 10 lbs of lean mass in multiple consecutive years (and in my thirties, no less; I am 37 now), just by training intensely and taking nutrition very seriously. In contrast a pro athlete with a tremendous frame who wants to improve and has expert trainers and nutritionists on call can make immense gains in lean mass without the need of steroids.
If this is true, kudos to you. The only thing is that you should be the first person to recognize anomalies like these and not defending these guys. Speaking as someone who trained very hard in the past (clean) and worked out with many people who cheated, I find it very hard to believe most of these people are supposedly clean hitters in baseball. If you have have trained hard, it stands out like a sore thumb. Not sure what else to say.

earlywynnfan 07-10-2014 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clydepepper (Post 1296052)
I also remember him following Bo Jackson's lead-off Bomb in the '89 AS game with his own.

I recall a writer, Peter Gammons I believe, saying that Boggs would hit homers in batting practice with such precision that he would start hitting them out to left and keep going all the way around to right.

Boggs isn't the person Gwynn was and probably not Carew (I know less about him), but if that story is true, WOW

Boggs also walked a ton, something that neither Gwynn or Carew did...he was one base over 300 times in more than one season, so how could he not be helping his team?

Now, I would still probably lean to Gwynn, but give Boggs his due.
Boggs was known for ignoring hit-and-run signs and watching the runner get thrown out because he didn't like the pitch.

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2014 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniffy5 (Post 1295986)
I don't know. Boggs is in the Hall of Fame for his years in Boston. Maybe I'm wrong, but did he request to go into the Hall in a Devil Rays cap? Or was it a Yankee cap? Either way, that would explain why the Red Sox are not recognizing him...
No, Red Sox cap.

earlywynnfan 07-10-2014 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1296106)
No, Red Sox cap.
I thought he promised the Rays that since they signed him and let him reach 3000 hits, he'd request the Rays cap??

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2014 12:31 PM
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PowderedH2O 07-10-2014 01:10 PM
Bodies can't always tell you the truth. When I played high school football I was scrawny. I was 5'10" and weighed 145-150 lbs. I worked out and ate and ate and drank shakes and by my senior year I was playing at 160. I stayed between 140-160 until I was about 28 or 29. Then, suddenly, the weight started piling on. I wasn't doing anything different in my exercise or eating. I am now 215 and I haven't been able to keep the weight under 200 consistently for over 20 years. The point I am trying to make is that if I were an elite athlete, around 28 I would have shown a 40-50 pound weight gain. One might think I was using steroids. A lot of guys pack on muscle and weight as they get to that age. So, I can't criticise a player that has this happen. Now, does the head get abnormally large too? Well, that might be a different story.

sniffy5 07-10-2014 04:40 PM
Defending players from so-called "steroid era" (probably as much if not more HGH as steroids) is pretty pointless.

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2014 06:25 PM
Should Gaylord Perry be in the Hall?

packs 07-11-2014 07:28 AM
I'm with sniffy.


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