Most of the smart money was in credit default swaps in the late aughts.

I think it was Bukowski that said "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.” My corollary is that you can never go wrong heading in the opposite direction of a pack of supposedly smart people telling each other just how smart they are.

Yes, we all know how high end investors always win in the market

I like the idea but have some concerns about the mechanics.

That put a chuckle in the gut. :p


Edited to add - my gut says no, but the greedy human part of me wants in. I'm not at NO, but I'm definitely not at YES, either.

I’m actually enjoying the learning that I’m doing about it and the conversation here is sparking questions and different avenues to continue learning. New tech and ideas are always questioned at first as they should be. I mean if Net54 existed when ebay came out, we would’ve had some people saying it would change the card industry, some people who were interested and wanted to learn more and others who thought it was a scam and disaster that would never catch on lol.


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Yes, they mocked Galileo too, and imprisoned him. Resistance to new ideas is human nature. As Schopenhauer said, I think it was him, all truths go through three stages. First, they are ridiculed. Then, they are violently opposed. Finally, they are accepted as self-evident. End of pretentious post.

That said, I find this investment vehicle dubious LOL.

This whole NFT thing has always seemed familiar to me. And it finally dawned on me what it reminded me of: the dot-com bubble, something I experienced from the inside when I worked in telecom manufacturing. The internet was the next big thing and anyone with a plausible sounding idea could find venture capital money to fund the development and get it to market long enough for the IPO (where the VCs cashed out.) Then all the retail investors watched the stock double and split, double and split even while the underlying company was slowly bleeding to death. In the brick and mortar world, we buit networking equipment like it was going out of style and couldn't get fiber in the ground fast enough.

It was all good times. Until it wasn't. I hung on in the industry for another decade, surviving annual layoffs long enough to watch my stock options expire because they never got within a country mile of the strike price. Finally, I left for the relative stability of oil and gas industry.

Remember the Sock Puppet, mascot for pets.com?

https://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/gall..._puppet.gi.jpg

Pets.com was founded in November of 1998 and was liquidated exactly two years later.

And how much you want to bet that it is the same Silicon Valley VC crowd that pumped and dumped dot-com running the same playbook here with NFTs.

It’s exactly the same. Some will be pets.com and some will be Amazon.com. If I knew which would be which I would be a billionaire lol


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When I first saw this thread, I didn't have my glasses and thought it was "Sports card tao". I thought you all were discussing the philosophical way to collect baseball cards, which it turns out, you are. I heard Bukowski didn't like the Mickey Rourke movie. I thought it was pretty good. I'll have to stay with tangible cards.

Ok...once more with feeling...Which of the fractional owners posses or has access to said purchases? Is that up for a vote too?

This is the kind of shit that in my humble opinion is ruining the hobby.
The more money and "investors" that enter the hobby, the worse off it becomes.
In fact, I can't see anyone successfully arguing that.
Shilling, card doctors, cracked slabs, fake autographs... these detriments to the hobby only INCREASE as prices go up, and NEVER the other way around. lol
Ask yourself this honest question.... If EVERY card tomorrow was valued at $1 dollar, and all the "investors" faded away instantly, how much fraud would there be in the hobby?.... Literally none.

I care about COLLECTING when it comes to cards and memorabilia, and nothing else, and a lot of it is about preserving items and serving as custodian so that future collectors can also enjoy them.

It's not about trying to make money and profit off of what is a "hobby" for me, but to each his own I guess.

That's the thing, Brent. It is not a hobby to many that are in it now. It is just trying to make a quick buck.
I would collect even more if everything were a buck! And then the foiks who ONLY see dollar signs would leave. I, and many on this forum, would be happy.
.

Yes!

Sometimes I wish that baseball would have another crippling strike, maybe some more scandals with it's popularity plummeting. This would cause investors in BB cards to abandon the market. Leaving it to collectors.

A man can dream! :)

Yes, there would be put forth proposals by the group on what to do and that would be voted on. The most likely scenario would be to work with one of the vault companies and store it in there but that’s up to the collective to decide


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I see what ur saying. I look at it like fine art. If you want to collect or invest there is something for you in it.


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It's interesting you point to the dot-com bubble as a comparison. While a handful of companies survived, the vast majority collapsed, with trillions of dollars lost. I think cryptocurrencies, nfts and other such block-chain tecnologies will follow the same trajectory. I don't see the value in something where only a small percentage of the population is interested, and there is no barrier to creating parallel ventures (how many crypto coins are there now anyway?) I wish you luck with this venture, but I haven't been persuaded by your arguments in this thread.

I may have some very good news for you...

That's the thing, Brent. If all cards were valued at $1, then we wouldn't have a National Convention, local card shops and shows, Net54, supplies for displaying and preserving our collections, access to other collectors to buy-sell-trade with, and all the other venues we now routinely use to build our collections. Without the money factor, many people are just not interested. It's no coincidence that the rise of many of the things mentioned above paralleled the rising value of sportscards. I'm sure there are plenty of other things to collect - old buttons, matchbook covers, milk bottles, Slurpee cups, cigarette butts, rusty nails, etc., that the 'investors' have not infiltrated. And the other thing with devalued cards, many of them would just be thrown out - there would be no new 'finds' as they would be sent straight to the dump.

Money in the hobby is not all bad.

And I'm a collector, just one that has learned to take the good with the bad as far as money entering the hobby.

It's an intriguing concept, though seems more like a game than collecting.

However, my key question is: Is a "pure democracy" is a good investment strategy? I would imagine not.

Per the OP the group would be to have group of cards, so essentially you would need to join the group, commit to financing before evening knowing exactly what the group would be elect to purchase. Imagine joining expecting to purchase a high grade Ruths/Cobbs and getting stuck with some modern basketball patch cards instead.

Hey Everybody, loving this conversation and questions (both positive and negative lol). Just as an update, the DAO has been created as a closed DAO with some really great members. I wont say who they are but if they want to disclose then that is their choice. Let's keep this convo going though as its a really interesting topic and one that will continue to evolve as this space evolves.

Pokeman, Lady Gaga concert-used swatch card

Exactly.

Endlessly fascinating when some people can't see all the factors on both sides of this coin. And the focus on only the negative just resonates so unhealthily

+1 and amen to that, Leon.

And here they have been telling me that Rome was not built in a day! Proof now that it could have been!

It's great, if the DAO is buying Your cards at the top of the market.

Fire, aim, ready.

For someone starting a conversation and still doing your research, you seem to have a lot of insider information.

I guess we can assume Gary Vee isn't one, since we know that guy can't keep his cakehole shut.

I have to say that I am bit shocked that us curmudgeons are commenting more than the swells over at Blowout.

I wonder how the Blowout unopened case mutual fund is doing. I thought that signaled the top of the market, but it still ran for a year after that.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1351664

At 1PM yesterday he is still researching and 24 hours later he has not only formed it but recruited significant members. Very impressive 24 hour period, don't ya think?

At the very least it feels like he has not been 100% upfront. Maybe his opening post should have stated that he was about to form this and had significant interest. As an investor I like full disclosure but maybe that is a silly concept these days.

This is not for me for other reasons but it is absolutely not for me for the way it was presented.

Was just reading a story online how another group is supposedly trying to create a Blockbuster DAO now, and how if they are successful, some feel they will be able to eventually take out Netfix.

This DAO concept sounds like something the government will eventually come back at. Forming any group for investing like this should require some form of legal entity election (partnership, LLC, corporation) it seems, and these "tokens" sound like a type of substitute for, but similar to, owning shares of stock or partnership units in the formal, traditional entries. And in the case of a DAO formed to invest in cards, along with questions that have already been asked about who will make actual buy/sell decisions, or physically hold the cards, what about what the tax treatment is and how it is handled and reported by the DAO and the "token" owners if a card bought by the DAO is subsequently sold. Or what is the tax treatment and how is it handled and reported if a "token" owner decides they want out of the DAO and decides to sell their "tokens" to someone else, or will they even be allowed to do that?

I would most definitely want to completely review and read through every page of all documents related to the formation and all ongoing operational aspects of any DAO I was even thinking about getting into. I also wonder if there couldn't be a lot of additional, ongoing costs and fees such an investing vehicle will create for the owners. And another curious question(s) I'd have is if everyone truly has an equal say on things based on what they paid in to the DAO, or do maybe some who formed and set up the DAO get extra "tokens" for their efforts in setting things up, or get to buy "tokens" at a reduced cost for those efforts and service and/or receive more "tokens" or discounts in acquiring them going forward for providing managing type services to the DAO, on an ongoing basis, and so on. I have always been a little suspicious by nature, and can't help but think that some parties doing these DAOs are profiting from them in some manner at everyone else's expense.

How does a group IPO a DAO?

A few posts back there was mention of a "fund" that originated at $3.1M and is now worth over $11M. The assumption is that if there were 3.1 million "shares" at the beginning, then each share would now be worth $11. What happens if I decide I want out NOW, rather than later? Are there people in line waiting to pay $11 a share for that "fund"? Who handles the transaction and logs it and how long would it take to get the funds from selling the shares?

I love how the word “democracy” is thrown around in this scheme. It’s a “democracy”, As in: Whomever has the most money (ie. stock/tokens/etc) has the democratic right to be the dictator of this fund. Most likely the originator of the fund.

Split those tokens baby…..then split ‘em again and sell ‘em again.

I also love how the words “transparent”, and “undisclosed” were rather un-ironically used within the same context.

Hope the undisclosed majority partners don’t vote to liquidate the fund and relocate to Costa Rica

;)

The problem with this statement is that essentially it’s not at all accurate.
There was a hobby long before the National Convention, local card shops and shows, and early collectors had no problem finding cards as well as other collectors to trade with, all before money was a factor at all. They also preserved much of the supply of what exists today for prewar cards, and again, they had no trouble doing this despite no hobby supplies for the most part existing.
And guess how much fraud was in the hobby then??

These were the actual “collectors” in their truest and purist form, not the modern investa-collector who thinks there needs to be money or the desire for profit just to have interest in the hobby. Unlike many here, they did it for just the love of cards. They existed before, and certainly, they can exist now despite how nefarious the “hobby” has become, which includes the endless contemporary influx of investors who care nothing whatsoever about actual cards.

I didn’t see any firm yeses on this thread. I’m curious if anyone other than the OP will put their hand up and say they’re putting their money into this arrangement. I’m skeptical that any board members actually joined in the day since this thread was posted.

For those of a certain vintage, I’m thinking the monorail salesman just came to Springfield….

Yeah, an idea is sketched out in pretty vague terms, from what is said lots of things still need to be worked out, the OP doesn't tell us much about himself, we have no idea who else is part of this or what their collecting focus is, no idea even about basics like where cards would be held, and people are just throwing money at it? Yes, tell us who you are.

Equating the (pre and post NSCC era) ease of collectors finding most of the cards they need is laughable.

Out of curiosity, I tracked down a sportscard DAO Discord chat and...well... see for yourself.

Attachment 495419

Something is happening here but you don't know what it is.
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Well, each share in your example would be worth $11/3.1 = $3.70 each. In case you wanted to sell, you would line up a buyer to purchase your shares, similar to the Collectible and RallyRd transaction marketplace. In Blowout's unopened, you may have to indicate willingness to sell to the oversight company who then offers it to the next person on the waiting list willing to buy in at your sale price.

I think the DAO idea is terrible, even worse than storing stuff in the PWCC vault. And you know how much I abhor PWCC. What if 50% of the cards bought by the DAO are later found to be trimmed in BGS and SGC holders, with no grade guarantee in force at either company? I'm sure the DAO token owners will all make the right call at that point in time. Or if the bank vault the cards are stored in is flooded. How does insurance pay out? If you're really going to be a part of this, read every document and ask every question before you throw cash in the hole.

Sports Card DAO
 

Not sure why everybody is getting so worked up lol. I haven’t asked anyone to do anything or for any money. Please continue the conversations about DAO’s if u want. FYI the members are not members from this forum they are members of the DAO
I literally just explained what a DAO was and if anyone would be interested and some ppl had a good conversation while others are jumping down my throat for I don’t know what.

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You already said you weren’t interested and made your thoughts known on blockchain yet you keep posting here with anger. You don’t have to open up this thread you realize that right?


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I think some people, including myself, interpreted you to be saying members of this forum had signed on with you, and that was the credibility gap. Because you implied they could post here if they wanted people to know who they were, which of course they could only do if they were members here.

It was clear to me he was not referring to members here nor trying to imply it but that is as far as my defense of him goes. He clearly has been working on this thing for a long time and came here, to BO and who knows where else to spread the good word. If it involves money and there is a lack of disclosure it is very concerning.

Maybe we can take a vote?

I guess I misread it then.

Don’t misinterpret my pointing out flaws in your scheme with anger. Throughout their thread you have been dismissive and evasive, not to mention deliberately misleading. You have presented a dubious scheme and are very defensive when faced with valid scrutiny.

This forum is great because there is a level of trust and honesty that allow us to make deals together. If members get burned by snake oil salesmen, that trust is destroyed. With that in mind I’m not going to be shy about questioning a con when I see one

I'm curious - why "do you know [crypto is] a con"? What's your concern exactly?

I don't know that a vintage baseball card forum is the place to have that conversation, but if you want to flip over to the Watercooler section, I'll give you an honest answer.

Sports Card DAO
 

I’ve actually been very positive and answering questions and haven’t asked anything of anyone even the legit criticisms from our members. The only thing I’ve been dismissive is ur inflammatory language when u could just not open the thread but ok carry on


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“Lol ok”

Maniac, I have been following this thread. Ignore the haters. I appreciate the post and information, even though it’s not for me. I don’t think you have said/done anything wrong/improper, at all

I never heard of a DAO before you created this thread. While it’s not for me, I recognize that many things are changing and DAOs, collectives, fractional interests, etc are all here and likely here to stay; as is crypto, which I do NOT think is a scam and I am significantly invested in. I appreciate learning about DAOs and better understanding the full market - what I am competing against as a buyer and who may ultimately be a buyer.

I think many people are scared of change, and us pre war collectors are likely more change-resistant than most (we like the old stuff and glory days). But please don’t let that discourage the discussion - pure investors/investment entities are a real part of our current “hobby”, may be permanent and forever transforming it. So I appreciate learning what’s out there/going on, as I continue to collect/invest in 2022 and beyond