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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   PWCC I want to bid but.... I just can't! (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=244906)

Stampsfan 12-16-2017 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidethewrapper (Post 1727545)
If the sites would block anyone with more than 2 retractions that would help. If they get a new user id again only 2 retractions blocked again. Then it's up to ebay to stop additional usernames from the same address or computer address. Maybe on ebay a seller could block anyone with several changes in userid within a year. I'm not a computer guy so I don't know what else can be done. Any ideas from the computer software field ?
All of what you are suggesting can easily be done, with a few simple designed queries.

mark evans 12-19-2017 09:48 AM
I decided to take advantage of the invitation on PWCC's website to notify the company of suspicious circumstances that might indicate shill bidding. The website advises that PWCC will follow up and respond to such inquiries.

Inasmuch as I have not heard back on an auction that is soon to close, I must join those members who have opted to stay away from PWCC's auctions.

1952boyntoncollector 12-19-2017 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark evans (Post 1730893)
I decided to take advantage of the invitation on PWCC's website to notify the company of suspicious circumstances that might indicate shill bidding. The website advises that PWCC will follow up and respond to such inquiries.

Inasmuch as I have not heard back on an auction that is soon to close, I must join those members who have opted to stay away from PWCC's auctions.
which lot is it

mark evans 12-19-2017 08:17 PM
1952 Topps Mays

bobbyw8469 12-19-2017 08:21 PM
Top two bidders 85% with PWCC.......and your point?

danmckee 12-21-2017 09:36 AM
WOW! Didn't realize so many were seeing the same thing I saw.

PWCC had some nice tough Low-Skip Goudey Indian cards I would have loved to have bought last night, they brought strong prices so good for them.

Dan Mckee

deagleii 12-21-2017 11:25 AM
Exactly!!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100backstroke (Post 1700798)
See a card you are interested in. Figure out how much you are willing to bid. Put in a bid. If you get it great. If you don't, you don't .
How about a 1 bid only your max vs everyone elses... However, people would then have numerous accounts.... DEBUNKED already mythe buster...

Bored5000 12-21-2017 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1731084)
Top two bidders 85% with PWCC.......and your point?
I don't think the percentage of bids with PWCC is automatically something nefarious; it's the retractions that should raise a huge red flag.

I have had times when I have had bid percentages at 85 percent, and I have never consigned a card with them or bid on a friend's auction.

ls7plus 12-21-2017 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 1701197)
Hey Al that misprint Herrera rocks!

Admitted card whore here: I bid with PWCC and Probstein when the item is right. One bid via snipe. Won an item a few weeks ago from PWCC for substantially less than my snipe. Won a Probstein item the other day. also well below my max. Do I get shilled? Probably. Though it is far less likely with the items I go after (boxing cards). My competitors on the last several items I've won have been large feedback bidders with no retractions.

I think the shilling will ultimately hurt PWCC. It is gradually scaring away bidders. I know that for anything mainstream I would want from them I throw out a snipe well below market and let it play out. There are so many specimens of mainstream cards that there is no need to bid strong with PWCC. Another one will surface. Truthfully, the key is not to get invested emotionally in the outcome of the auction. It will drive you crazy otherwise.
A big +1! I have won some with PWCC that way and lost some (most recently the 1959 PSA 5 Bazooka Drysdale--top bid was around $1100-$1300 when I sniped it with 7 seconds left at $2450, only to lose the item when it virtually simultaneously went to $2475).

On the other hand, there are at least two printed catalog type AH's who will remain unnamed here that I would be extremely careful about placing maximum bids with. I have done that on several occasions with PWCC with complete confidence and never had a problem.

Best holiday wishes to all,

Larry

1952boyntoncollector 12-21-2017 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls7plus (Post 1731552)
A big +1! I have won some with PWCC that way and lost some (most recently the 1959 PSA 5 Bazooka Drysdale--top bid was around $1100-$1300 when I sniped it with 7 seconds left at $2450, only to lose the item when it virtually simultaneously went to $2475).

On the other hand, there are at least two printed catalog type AH's who will remain unnamed here that I would be extremely careful about placing maximum bids with. I have done that on several occasions with PWCC with complete confidence and never had a problem.

Best holiday wishes to all,

Larry


So you would be extremely careful about placing max bids with 'at least two printed catalog type AHs' but let the general public bid away on them. If you dont name any names then you really arent accusing them of anything.

ls7plus 12-21-2017 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1731554)
So you would be extremely careful about placing max bids with 'at least two printed catalog type AHs' but let the general public bid away on them. If you dont name any names then you really arent accusing them of anything.
A word to the wise from someone who's been a lawyer for 40 years: If it appears to sound like a duck, walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, but you really have no absolute proof that it is in fact a duck, better not to make accusations. My point which was most relevant to this thread was that I have not had a single such experience with PWCC.

May your collecting be joyful,

Larry

1952boyntoncollector 12-21-2017 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls7plus (Post 1731565)
A word to the wise from someone who's been a lawyer for 40 years: If it appears to sound like a duck, walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, but you really have no absolute proof that it is in fact a duck, better not to make accusations. My point which was most relevant to this thread was that I have not had a single such experience with PWCC.

May your collecting be joyful,

Larry
Ok so no proof.

ls7plus 12-21-2017 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1731586)
Ok so no proof.
A reasonable, rational person begins to wonder when, near the end of an auction, but still way too early for a snipe, the bidding almost magically zooms upwards to a point just two bids short of your max bid on an item that sold for less than one-third as much five years earlier (admittedly a very rare card, but one of a quite esoteric, obscure character), thus triggering a bid from you just one step below your max. Absolute proof? Of course not. Suspicion? You betcha! Caveat emptor--you're better off for the future by keeping your eyes wide open!

Larry

Peter_Spaeth 12-21-2017 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1731586)
Ok so no proof.
Proof often consists of circumstantial evidence from which inferences can be drawn, so you are misusing the term here. Larry's point is that there's risk for him in publicly accusing a major auction house of shill bidding even if he's pretty damn sure what happened. The same reason one is reluctant to publicly accusing people of card doctoring.

1952boyntoncollector 12-21-2017 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1731643)
Proof often consists of circumstantial evidence from which inferences can be drawn, so you are misusing the term here. Larry's point is that there's risk for him in publicly accusing a major auction house of shill bidding even if he's pretty damn sure what happened. The same reason one is reluctant to publicly accusing people of card doctoring.
He actually said no absolute proof so i was just summarizing what he said...

It does appear odd though what happened in the auction he talks about, but maybe just a coincidence...if knew which AH he was talking about there could be a back and forth of shared experiences and a discussion that may lead to something.

Someone could be very truthful and not risk any exposure to them if they explain their exact experience with an auction. They dont have to say something underhanded was going on but can just say they were outbid and when etc. It would be hard to see any legal exposure by just saying what happened to you (and not saying why it happened)

mark evans 12-21-2017 05:23 PM
As an update and out of fairness to PWCC, while the company failed to respond to e-mails I directed to the address on its website for reporting suspicious bids, PWCC responded very promptly to my inquiry via eBay.

The company's customer rep advised that they were unaware of any relationship between the consignor and bidder in question. PWCC went on to advise that they had 'contacted' the bidder. I was not advised of the substance of that contact.


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