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Kudos to you for commenting.
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Regardless... thanks to Jeff for coming on to explain and clarify. The fact that PWCC has acknowledged the alterations and misrepresentations is a good start. So are the refunds (which I have a hunch are due to some sound legal counsel). Hopefully this case can transpire in such a way that tenets and conservation never become the new “norm”. It will be an interesting next few months. |
Will give credit to Jeff for responding here...he certainly didn't need to, nor need to respond to any of the follow up questions so far.
Hopefully he will answer this one just for fun: Are you representing Moser as well or do you intend to if asked?...or have the H's totally separated themselves from him? |
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Back to my original scenario, if Dealer X consigned 5,000 since 2012 through PWCC and has now been "outed" as a potential card doctor. What is the process for notifying victims? How many are notified? Maybe 100 of the 5,000 cards have been publicly outed. What is the process? Do you start with the publicly outed "clearly altered cards" then politely ask Dealer X if any others were "clearly altered?" Is it a threshold? I'm not trying to criticize the process, again, I'm just curious. |
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As to who is providing info on bad cards, keep in mind that I don't represent every person who consigned to PWCC. With the government's help, with the help of the Blowout guys who did incredible work here, we're able to determine some of the bad cards. The government has sources who have provided them info about cards, some of that is shared with us and a discussion is had. I can tell you that we are erring on the side of giving refunds back. This is a fluid situation as I have said. It is not a perfect situation by any means, but it's a start. Quote:
I'll speak more about this as time goes on and I'm willing to be contacted with any bad cards that need to be refunded. |
One note is that everyone deserves a good defense attorney no matter who they are-- even El Chapo and Jeffrey Dahmer. Saying otherwise is to say all charges are always correct, one side gets lawyers and the other does not, and we can/should determine guilt even before a trial. Everyone also deserves a competent physician when sick or injured-- including those who, unlike Brent, actually have been convicted and are in prison.
If Jeffrey L., or any other defense lawyer, serves as a lawyer for PWCC, El Chapo, Charles Manson or Bernie Madoff, there is absolutely nothing wrong about that. And, no, I'm not equating PWCC with Jeffrey Dahmer and Charles Mason :) |
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After all that bashing time after time and now you’re representing him? Am I in the twilight zone?!?!?. 🤦*♂️
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I am a tax guy. Lets say someone brings in their paperwork/records to get their taxes done. It is my job to get it right - by the law. If what the client brings me looks suspect or fraudulent, I explain to the client the situation, why I think it may not be correct, the ramifications, and offer to help get it right ... or show them the door. There is no leeway. The IRS can fine me, even revoke my license, if found I fraudulently did a return.
That said, the analogy is PSA is me, the preparer. If PSA lets loose a fraudulent card, they are to blame. They are the professionals who do this for a living. There should be legal consequence for PSA. PSA should be held more accountable than any other entity in this whole mess. Right or wrong - my 2 cents. |
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Though it is kind of funny if Brent said "Uh oh. I'm in such big trouble that I'd better get El Chapo's lawyer."
Though, obviously, Jeffrey has knowledge of this particular hobby, which it seems is what one would want for a lawyer on either side. You don't want to hire a lawyer who collects beanie babies or funky earrings-- totally different law. I'm sure Brent has also gone into this knowing that Jeffrey is a dog person ("Betsy, we can't chance it. Hide the cat! Oh, shoot, the closet's full. Call it Fido and maybe he won't notice.") |
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I guess (not that Jeff can be expected to answer) my big question is whether or not PWCC is still trying to portray themselves as innocent victims of the card doctoring "community" or are they being upfront about the fact that they were in cahoots with them.
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Something Positive to Post....I'm thankful and blessed to be a member of this board :-)
Thanks to Jeff...BO...Peter and many others whom post on here with substantive beneficial information to the benefit of all :-) |
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Hopefully the Government will view it this way as well. ;) |
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And as you guessed, I'm not exactly in need of baseball hobby cases with the stuff I'm doing now. But I'd rather deal with this stuff from the inside than to be on the outside, screaming my head off and not accomplishing anything. |
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https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ut%20bitch.gif I think I'll pass on the PSA slabs next week...sure gonna make my carry-on lighter going home from the show. |
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Reading between the lines here Jeff, looks like a wedge is forthcoming between PSA and PWCC, with you being the hammer. Can we assume that PSA's warranty is worth sh**, or they told PWCC to pound sand since PWCC is now refunding buyers?
I would think part of your long term strategy is eventually recovering funds from the source of encapsulating altered cards, PSA. |
What is going on at NEWPORT BEACH ?
THEIR SILENCE IS DEAFENING :-( |
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That being said my big problem with PSA is that they've done nothing but obfuscate and make non-statements. I wish that they'd come out and say, we were fooled by bad actors, we screwed up and we're working to identify and eliminate from the hobby the people that have undermined the hobby's confidence in general and in us specifically. We will also work to correct our internal issues which led to our part in allowing this to happen when it is anathema to our purpose as a company and a leader in the hobby. OK getting off my soap box for now. |
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Thanks Jeff for the info.
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My only comments to this thread are: Thank you Blowout! Please keep up the great work. It is making a difference. The collecting community appreciates your efforts. Go BODA! Jeff, please do your best to do good. |
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I have nothing to do with anything involving the law so take that into consideration. My concern is that PWCC gets to come out of this virtually unscathed. Lie, cheat and steal your way to a couple million dollars profit - get caught - lie and steal some more - hear the Feds at the door - realize the "errors of your ways" - donate/refund a very small percentage of your profit (I'm sure on the advice of counsel) - get to play the hero/ martyr of the collecting community- take a year off - repeat I certainly applaud Jeff's efforts towards restitution for the victims but I can't see how this dissuades anyone from trying something like this in the future. Someone needs to be made an example of or we'll see another scandal every few years. While PSA has more than their share of blame, it feels to me that Brentsie was the ringleader. You shouldn't get off with a "whoops, my bad. Here's some of the money back that I stole. Sure the whole scheme ran through me but let me tell you about all the other bad eggs" ETA - my name Sc0tt C1int0n |
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Jeff - I've never met you. And I do believe you are trying to do the right thing.
But the question I raise to you - is that even possible? Is there anyone connected to this hobby that can truly be an honest arbiter? Every card taken out of circulation by the FBI - makes other cards more valuable. Are those in your collection? Or the collections of friends of yours? Every owner of high end cards has an interest in the outcome. Some gain by preserving the status quo. Some gain from the destroying the status quo. So all an FBI investigation can do at this point is shuffling the winners and losers. The only guaranteed loser is the history of the hobby - as cards are taken out of circulation. And while some cards can easily be removed from the hobby with minimal impact, some of these cards are truly scarce to begin with and valuable regardless or doctoring. Taking them out of the hobby just makes the hobby poorer and the owners of the unremoved cards richer. The approach you are describing throws the baby and the bathwater out. And the real loser is the hobby. |
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No fan of PSA and wouldn't mind seeing it go down due to their being unable to do their job. However, I understand and appreciate their sentiment that the card doctors and their knowing facilitators be the ones to take the financial punishment. They would be the criminals not PSA.
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I respect what you are trying to do. I really wish you were on the other side of history because what your client has done for 15 years is just shameful. You have railed against what he has done, because you know, you know. This isn't just something that happened ooooooppppps ie. This was a methodical crime for 15 years of doctoring cards and identifying which ones would be better for their criminal activity, rinse and repeat. That's the grossness of it all. Just a complete dick with a complete disrespect for the law, your client Brent Mastro I wish you were on the side of the collector instead mr. get rich quick schemer Brent Mastro. That's all he is my handsome friend, common criminal. Nothing special. So, good luck to you in your endeavors. To Brent Mastro, not so much. |
We will see a pull back correction from the recent outrageous prices of the last 4 years ? We’re those numbers even real ? Will anyone lose confidence in PSA graded cards ? All questions I ponder wondering if many people think the same.
P.T Barnum said it best, “There’s a sucker born every min” The collector, as a whole, has swallowed the bait hook line and sinker. This will be evident from the Newport Beach lines at the National. PSA AH’s And Dealers a like have made millions off this whole ordeal........... most hardcore collectors know the issues and still buy, still submit, still try again and again for bumps, still consign....ect. I hope things get better........ |
I think that's the concern of a LOT of us.
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The rich keep getting richer
I love the info that jeffrey has provided. He basically told us Brent will not be going to jail and that we should be happy and grateful that PWCC is refunding obvious trimmed and altered cards and those with only "MINOR" alterations are going on the back burner. I must say. You are representing your client well. Just seems a little self serving to me. Thank You BLOWOUT for your great work. at least you didn't sell your soul or integrity to represent a crook.
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Good third post without your name listed.
Good understanding of how the Sixth Amendment works. And good reading comprehension skills — you’re able to read things that have never been said or written. |
Absolutely freaking brilliant move by Brent and Betsy. Silence the criticism coming from your biggest critic by hiring him. LOL. Mastro and Allen really blew that one.
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Appreciate what you're doing, but if there isn't going to be real transparency in this cleaning up then we aren't that much further along. "Trust me" aren't words most of the community is going to be satisfied with. "Show us" would go much further. |
Brent has been selling cards for Gary since at least the late 2000s and I believe it was earlier than that. I imagine most of those cards are no longer with the original purchasers out of prewarcardcollector/PWCC and cannot be traced. And as stated, Gary is just one piece of the PWCC puzzle. Obviously whatever can be done to get these cards off the market is better than nothing, but the ability to rectify decades of fraud is quite limited.
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Peter - agree with you, but why can’t we just start with what we know already and go from there?
There is a big piece of this that is a pretty simple reconciliation project if some minimal information would be shared. But so far, even those who are supposedly cooperating aren’t really sharing. Maybe the FBI is doing the work? How anyone who hasn’t already been contacted directly for refund would know that I’m not sure. So far, it’s all still happening in the background with a bunch of trust me’s and be patient. This thing has had pretty public legs for months now, if they’d just share a little more info on what we already know most of those cards could be mopped up in a few days. The older stuff, agree much more difficult. The recent stuff, it’s really not that hard of anyone really wanted to get it done. |
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