I do not think there is a Dougherty, my theory it was swapped out with Ames....just a theory though :D

Here are the 34 I think make for the y/bs, I have scans of 33, missing Chase black cap.

https://i.imgur.com/xXpytp7.jpg

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Hi ole buddy,

I cannot agree with you regarding Dougherty, simply because all 35 of these guys were printed with a trio of correlated backs....BROAD LEAF 460, red HINDU, and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42.
Just because he is missing in the collection of yellow-brown cards, does not mean he was not printed with this group of 35. You also have a missing Chase (dark cap), and we know he was printed.


.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...1cards25xx.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14cards14x.jpg



TED Z
.

Hey Ted, good to see you posting.

I have never seen an Ames Red Hindu or BL460, would love to see scans.

My theory is that the group I listed was printed with Ames and then at one point printed with Dougherty in its place. Some backs were printed with both cards and some backs after the swap and do not include the Ames.

just a theory :D

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Chris

I understand your theory; however, why would ALC replace Dougherty with Ames ?

Dougherty played for the White Sox 1906 - 1911. Ames pitched for the Giants from 1903 to 1913. I do NOT see any logical reason for American
Lithographic (ALC) replacing Dougherty with Ames in their 1910 press runs.

Ames is not the only subject that has yet to be found with red HINDU or BL 460 backs. Checkout this pattern....35 subjects in the 350/460 series
that were printed with SWEET CAP Factory #42 were also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs. No other 350/460 series subjects conform to
this pattern. Ames has been confirmed with the SWEET CAP Factory #42 back; therefore, he was also printed with BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
I'll predict that Ames will be eventually found with the BL 460 and red HINDU backs.
Before you care to take my bet on this happening, I'll remind you.....I'm batting 1.000 with such type of T206 predictions.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Chris

While we are trading theories, "dig this one"......my theory is that these 35 subjects were on a sheet of multiples of a 36-card arrangement with the RED Cobb DOUBLE-PRINTED.

Proof of this theory can be found in Pop Report data which indicates that the RED Cobb has approximately twice as many SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 counts than any
of the other 34 subjects.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

OK, continuing playing this game of "Unique Antique" cards, here's my 1910 COUPON Matty McIntyre.

This card is the only one listed in the PSA pop report. The last time I looked at the SGC pop report on
these COUPON cards there were no Matty McIntyre's listed.

Perhaps, Rob McK. will chime in, since he has a near complete set of these rare gems.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...onMcIntyre.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nMcIntyreb.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Here are the current pop numbers for the 35 subjects with a SC350-460/42

Attachment 428366

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Thank you for posting the numbers for readers to see the data. I am aware of these numbers which have been in my research for 2 1/2 years.
I update this PSA data in my records every week.

As I said in Post # 1125, in this SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 group of 35 subjects, apparently the Red Cobb was Double-Printed in order
to form a 36-card arrangement.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

If you're basing your proof that Cobb was double printed on the pop report numbers how do you explain the wide variation in the numbers on the other super prints?
There are almost twice as many Evers (9) as there are Chase- black cap (5), almost twice as many Chance (17) as there are Evers (9), over
double the amount of Chase- blue (11) as there are Chase-black (5) and three times as many Chance (17) as Chase -black (5).

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

You are assuming that all 35 subjects were equally submitted for grading. THIS IS NOT SO ! And, I'm sure you know this.

A large number of T206 collectors get their Cobb, Johnson, Matty, CYoung cards GRADED. However, many T206 collectors (like me) DO NOT
bother to get their less valuable cards graded. There are many, many T206 sets (and stars and commons) that are NOT GRADED. Therefore,
comparing Cobb (or Johnson, Matty, CYoung) with the remaining cards in this Group of 35 is inconsequential.

My theory (presented approx 10 years ago), hypothesized that American Litho (ALC) divided the 63 subjects of the 350/460 series into two
groups when ALC started printing the 460-type backs.......this theory has withstood the test of time.

Group A comprises of these 35 subjects. Group B consists of the remaining 28 subjects in the 350/460 series. ALC printed sheets of T206's
with basic formats of 12, 36, 48, etc. cards.

Therefore with Group A having 35 subjects, ALC needed one more subject. The red Cobb is ATC's "signature T206" so it's a pretty good guess
that the Red Cobb was Double-Printed this format.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Nice card,Ted, here is the Matty McIntyre that I have. It's raw in a cardsaver. I see one graded on psa and one on sgc. a 1.5.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Thanks, Rob

I did not really think my Matty Mack was a one of a kind card.

I have one (or two more) 1910 COUPON cards, which I suspect are not unique any more.
When I acquired them years ago they were unique. Not listed in PSA or SGC pop reports.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

I'm not assuming that at all. I know that Cobb would be submitted
more than any of the others for grading and cracked out and resubmitted
too. If he was printed twice as much as the others subjects his pop number
should be far more than double any of the other subjects.

The sales don't reflect him being double printed either this is a list of all
of the card target sales raw and graded by all company's since 2008 for
the 35 subjects with a SC350/460 factory 42 back.

Attachment 428669

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Those cardtarget sales numbers are not an accurate reflection of the actual red Cobb transactions.

I've been a collector for over 40 years, and a part-time dealer for almost 40 years. I have bought, sold, traded, and graded at least 24 red Cobb's
during that time. And, that's just me..... a small time-dealer.

Furthermore, currently in my T206 collection are 7 red Cobb's (different backs). Plus, in recent years I have sold 4 red Cobb's with SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #42 backs.

TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Card target doesn't record all sales but it does record most of the auction
house and ebay sales. It recorded the sale of the McIntyre you posted when it sold earlier this year.

Attachment 428679

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Pat

THANK YOU.... for agreeing with me regarding cardtarget does NOT account for all sales.

There are many private sales (at Shows, Net54 BST, etc., etc.) that they are unaware of.


TED Z
.

Nothing accounts for all sales but cardtarget covers a large volume of
sales. Without specifying a back a search of a red Cobb provides 2,428
past sales. Many specific cards eventually end up on there I don't know
when you sold or traded the McIntyre t213 but that ended up on there.

Here's an odd one with pretty colors....

Blank Back
 

I have 4 of these missing color. I like this one the best.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Hi Adam

Thanks for posting your Matty Mack....cool card. Are the other three that you have also from the 350-only series ?

And, who are the other three ?


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

BB’s
 

I believe they are. I will confirm this afternoon, with names.

Additional BB's
 

Ted,

They are all 350 series:

Rhoades Hands at Chest
Warhop
Cassidy

Love the missing color aspect.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Adam

Awesome ! Well, that leaves us with a possibility of as many as 186 other such T206's from the 350-only series.

It never ceases to amaze me how this T206 set continues to mystify us.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

There are 75 350 only subjects confirmed with blank backs I have scans
of 35.

http://www.t206resource.com/Blank-Back-Checklist.html

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Approximately 10 years ago, I acquired this 1910 COUPON Rossman from Jim Rivera (who was set-up with me at my booth at the Valley Forge Philly Show).

Claude Rossman is one of the tougher cards in the T206 set. Having retired from BB on Sept 3, 1909, American Litho. discontinued printing his cards during
their 350-only series press runs. With respect to this 1910 COUPON card, PSA pop report data indicates only one (Graded a "2"). This specific listing may be
the same Rossman card that was mine (since I sold mine 4 years ago).
Perhaps, Rob McKenzie will chime in here, since his 1910 COUPON set is about 98% complete, and most likely has a Rossman.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...PONRossman.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...onrossmanb.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Ted, I have a PSA 2 Rossman, you may have traded it to me, but it would have been a number of years ago and I have a poor memory. I know Rossman was still on my wantlist when I was down to about 12 cards about 10 years ago.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Hi Rob

I traded (or sold) you some 1910 COUPON cards in the past, but not Rossman. It looks like you may have the Rossman listed in the PSA pop report.
I haven't checked out the SGC pop report recently, last time I did there were no Rossman cards listed.

Therefore, it appears that your Rossman and the one I had are the only 2 that are known.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

T213-1 Rossman's are difficult to find for sure. SGC updated their pop reports recently, and they show one Rossman, graded SGC 1. There is also a T213-1 Rossman in the Burdick Collection at the MET. I learned just recently that he donated a complete set of T213-1's to the museum.

www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/417940

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Rob

Besides you and Jefferson Burdick, and it is my understanding that one more collector are the only ones which have completed the 1910 COUPON set.
Burdick probably completed his set back in the 1930's - 1940's. It would have been much more easier to do so back then.

I have to commend you for having 67 (of the 68) cards in this set. It certainly is not easy assembling this set 110 years after these cards were issued.

Here's my favorite 1910 COUPON subject......
Ted Breitenstein (St Louis Browns) pitched a "Perfect" game No-Hitter in his very 1st start in 1891. Ted faced exactly 27 batters. Actually, he did Walk
a guy, but a Double-Play followed. Furthermore, at the end of his Major League career (1898), Ted pitched another No-Hitter.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...350xCOUPON.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...50xCOUPONb.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Thanks, Ted. I think the Fritsch family had or has a set, and a few board members are working on it, or may have completed it raw. I still need to look for Hindu backs so I can make a CHOP back run or two. Here is a T206 Cycle 350 Rhoades that I have. It sort of looks like a Coupon if I look at the back without my glasses. I'm not sure what my favorite subject is, I will think on it.

Greminger is high on my list of favorite T213-1's. It was one of the final four on my wantlist.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
....Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____ Sovereign…. American Beauty .…. UZIT


[/B]This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season

Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ?

Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1151 >> 1160.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1161 >> 1193.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb

Posts #1194 >> 1198.....Questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a questionable pose

Posts #1199 >> 1200....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Posts #1201 >> 1207....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Rob

Greminger is also one of my favorites. But, I haven't had any luck getting his 1910 COUPON card.
PSA pop report lists only 1. How many Greminger cards are listed in the SGC pop report data ?


--------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...duRedSun25.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...uRedSun25b.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...remingerOM.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...LDMILLx25b.jpg




TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

It looks like the SGC pop report only shows one graded Greminger, an SGC 30. The one I have is raw, from a board member who was working on the SL'er subset. At least a couple of collectors are trying to complete, or have completed the SL subset, which makes it even tougher to find cards like Greminger. From an old scan, here is the Breitenstein I have, along with a few others. I need to scan all of my T213's and post them to my flickr page.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Rob

Thanks for the SGC info regarding Breitenstein.

I have another question for you.....how many of your 1910 COUPON cards have the
typical paper loss seen on the upper part of their backs (as my Breitenstein does) ?



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Ted, here's an old picture of the backs from 5 or 6 years ago. I have been able to upgrade many of the cards with back damage. For the ones I have, there are all types of back damage, usually dime size in the middle from album removal. Most of the ones I have are clean backs.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Rob

Thanks for displaying all the cards in your set. It looks like you have only about couple of cards with what I refer to as the "typical paper loss" like my 4 cards shown here.

Here's my theory on why these T213 cards have this type of paper loss. The American Tobacco Co. (ATC) introduced the "COUPON" brand circa 1909-1910. ATC packaged
these cigarettes in Cartons (11" x 3" x 2") containing approx. 200 cigarettes. American Litho issued these 1910 COUPON cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910.
Some cards were inserted inside the cartons, and others were pasted on the outside of the cartons.

Here are 4 of my 1910 COUPON cards that exhibit this paper loss. My "show-piece" is the Doolan card, as it exposes cardboard residue from the Cigarette carton which it
was glued on. The back of this Doolan card appears to confirm my above stated theory.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...poncobb50x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edCobb75xb.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sedkcap38x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...apChase50b.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eitenstein.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...itensteinB.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...PONDoolanX.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Doolan19xB.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...yFoster11x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DGsgc60x13.jpg



I'm running out of "unique" CARDS to display. So, I will switch to my unique CARS. In post #1087 is my "rare bird", a 1957 T-Bird, which I have enjoyed driving since 1972
when I acquired it from a car mechanic in Breton Woods, NJ. I refer to it as "rare" because I have seen only one other one with Willow Green paint. In 1957, Ford produced
approx. 21,000 T-Birds....approx. 200 were Willow Green.

My 1960 T-Bird is also Willow Green (just a coincidence). There are many Antique Car Shows here in Pennsylvania and I have attended many of them through out the years
yet I have never seen another 1960 Willow Green T-Bird. Perhaps, mine is "unique" here on the East coast. If I were on the West coast, all bets are off :)


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...RDwoodshed.jpg



https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...mbattennis.jpg


Hey guys.....I have some interesting experiences with these two "American Heavy Metal" machines. If you are interested, I will post one or two of them :)


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

Whoa !

One more to go....this "gem" was my first T206 DRUM (acquired in 1985). For many years it was a unique T206.

In recent years, I sold this Moeller card to a good friend on Net54, which completed his T206 Tobacco backs run.

Now in the PSA pop report there is one graded A. And in the SGC pop report there is one graded A. These 2 may
be the same one, appearing twice because it was crossed-over. Or, there may be two different ones known now.



https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...oellerdrum.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...oellerdrum.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)
 

A Net54 reader emailed me, requesting a story regarding my T-Bird(s).

So, here is an experience that I have never forgotten. I'm driving to work in the 1957 Thunderbird on the Garden State Parkway (circa 1977). I had the stick-shift in Overdrive,
and before I realize it, I'm cruising at 75 mph. Suddenly, I see flashing lights in my side-view mirror. It's a NJ State Trooper. As I head for the shoulder, he turns off his lights as
he pulls along side me, and
from his Loud Speaker I hear.... "Do you want to sell your T-Bird ?"
I shake my head indicating.... "No".
Then he says.... "I'll pay you, whatever you want for it."
I nod again a.... "No".
Then he says.... "I don't blame you". And, waves to me and takes off.

Well guys, that was a scary experience, since NJ in 1975 had lowered the Speed Limit to 55 mph.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card..Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ereign12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lCYoung12x.jpg


The American Tobacco Company's "signature" image in the white-border Tobacco card family is the Red Cobb. The American Lithographic Co. printed the Red Cobb
with 29 different tobacco advertisements (T206, T213, T214 and TY COBB back).

The only white-border Tobacco card sets that do not include the Red Cobb are the T215 RED CROSS set of 96 subjects **. And strangely enough, it's "cousin" set,
the T215 "PIRATE" set of 96 cards (which does NOT include any Cobb cards in it).

** Note...... The Cobb (bat off shoulder) is included in the T215 RED CROSS set.


Jamie's (Blunder19) tremendous Red Cobb run is complete with all 29 of these white-bordered cards, which were printed with the various Tobacco advertisements.


Show us your favorite Red Cobb's. My favorite for several reasons is the elusive SOVEREIGN 460. This Red Cobb is a difficult front / back combination to find.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx50.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obbSGCx50b.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Nice one Ted. Jaime's red Cobb back run is epic.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=10125https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=25657

Mine has a punch hole for easy key chain installation. According to the back, this practice was O.K. in its day.

Brian

WHAT?
jamie has a red cobb back run?
i don't believe it, and won't, until isee it! :D

AWESOME Mark! Outstanding T206 Coupon Cobb!

This'll be fun to see a bunch of cool Red Cobbs!

Recently acquired...

Jamie’s red Cobb back run is probably the coolest t206 “thing” out there; I think it beats a 524 set.

Here are my red Cobbs

My only Red!

We found this in my Grandpa's "Sock Drawer" years after he & Grandma passed. We NEVER knew had it and he NEVER said...

He had 3 Polar Bear cards - Kelley, Young, and this!

T206 REFERENCE.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card..Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

Snowing here in Pennsylvania, so it's a good time to show my "snowflakes" Orange Cobb :)


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...PinlWillis.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

A few more

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

WOW ! .......these 1910 COUPON Cobb's...."It don't come easy" (to quote Ringo Starr).

So far, we've shown three of them. If we include Jamie's, Rob McK's & Jefferson Burdick's (in the NY Met) that accounts for six of these scarce Cobb's.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...poncobb50x.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edCobb75xb.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Still need a 1919 T213-3 Red Cobb Coupon...

OK...
 

now i'm feeling like i'm being bullied into sharing this...
and i still don't believe that "jamie" guy has squat!
waiting to see... ;)

My one and only, got it off this Jamie guy.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b8bcdf3b_b.jpg

Great card, Mark.

thank you, gentlemen for your encouraging comments.
the t213-1 is probably my very favorite simply because i never thiught i would acquire one!
though, of course i am also quite fond of the lenox, since it was the first one of my "odd-backs."
very nice card chris! i wish mine had the borders your does.
and, johnny v, isn't it about time you shared your special red cobb? still a favorite of mine (even tho you own it now/again}!

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

Here's a red Cobb with a hint of red ink spotting on it's back, apparently due to "wet ink" transfer.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...0redCobb50.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...redCobb50x.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 Red Cobbs
 

Being from Georgia I'm a big fan of Cobb and Bobby Jones

Woah! That's a whole bunch of awesomeness.

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

And, here we have the red Cobb with the SOVEREIGN 350 back which was printed with "apple green" ink.

. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...RedCobb25x.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign350x25b.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Impressive...almost a full roster of red Cobbs! May you be my Secret Santa next year.

Brian

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

In this current "crazy Cobb environment", I took Kenny Rogers famous advice regarding cards.....
" You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them "


Here is (was) my nicest looking red Cobb card, which was in my SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set for many
years. I acquired this Cobb in the 1990's. And, in recent times I sold it for an offer which I could not refuse.

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ges/acobb8.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

my few....

https://luckeycards.com/t206cobb.jpg

https://luckeycards.com/t206cobboldmill2b.jpg

The one in my set.

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

Hey guys,

Some really great red Cobb's on display here. Keep on posting more of them.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

This red Cobb is by no means a favorite of mine; however, I'm posting it anyhow as an example of an occasional PSA blunder :)



https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...xSCxCobb50.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SCxCobb50b.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

That's just a data error when they did the label like these two.

Attachment 433640

But the graders are the ones that messed up on these two they both should have received a mk qualifier. They missed where someone made the 1 into
a 3 on the Weimer and where someone drew an emblem on Nicholls uniform sleeve.

Attachment 433641

Attachment 433642

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

Not the prettiest red Cobb; however, it will do.....as it has the back I need for my SWEET CAP Factory #42 overprint run.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...06redCobbX.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC30ovpt42.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

It's time for me to show-off my unique red Cobb with an unusually rare LENOX back.

Now..... do not let the " MILITARY SERIES " on the back of this card confuse you :)

After all, Cobb has been quoted as saying...." Baseball is like War ! "


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cobb460x50.jpg ------http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0xLENOXx50.jpg



In my wild imagination, I expect that some day we will find a red Cobb with a T80 back on it. This may seem improbable; however,
consider a printer confusing the T80 LENOX (backs) printing plates with the T206 LENOX plates. Both the T206 and T80 cards were
printed concurrently (circa early Spring 1911).


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CMblankBx2.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...oCMblankBk.jpg



The same type of printing mistake applies to this Cobb; however, it would be a UZIT back. Here Cobb is wielding his "weapon of War" :)


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...OLDMILLx75.jpg ------ http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xUZITx50bk.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

This red Cobb with a PIEDMONT #42 back is a real beauty....however, it is not a real T206. But, it sure is a darn good reprint.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edmont42xx.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...iedmont42b.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

Hi Leon

I don't understand why PSA graded your SWEET CAPORAL Cobb with such a low grade ?

The Front and back look good to me.



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb
 

Some say this Cobb is a T206, and others say not. In any event, it's absolutely a member of the ATC "signature" family.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cobbtycobb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cobbtycobb.jpg



Factory #33......Reidsville, NC

Circa 1910, ATC introduced this new brand..... the "Ty Cobb" Smoking Tobacco. Here is a vintage postcard of the manufacturing plant.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xFactory33.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE.....questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a ?-able pose
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg
Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards


Depicted on some T206's are action poses which appear to be some what puzzling. For example, one of my favorite T206's, John McGraw (with glove). John's playing career
as a player-Manager ended in 1906. This 460-Series card of him was printed and issued in late 1910 >> early 1911 (depending which Tobacco advertisement is on its back).
It's kind of strange that he is portrayed with a glove, since he had not been a player for 4 years. Any thoughts why ? Actually, I do have a theory why.


This McGraw card is a member of the Exclusive 12 group. It was printed with 13 different backs. His UZIT card (unique) is a relatively new find, which completed my run.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUsgcX.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ZITxSGC30x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUsgcB.jpg




http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...VxPd4xPBxx.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SOVxPd4xPB.jpg
Factory #42.....................Factory #42




http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LxAB460xOM.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xAB460xOMb.jpg




http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tory30xx12.jpg . . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...YCLE460x18.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CLE460x18b.jpg
Factory #30



OK guys....there are a few more such enigmatic T206 action poses in the set. Check-them-out, and show-n-tell us about them.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Ted, I assume he's just being depicted/celebrated as a Manager, who was a former player, and wearing a glove probably during pre-game fungo or throwing drills, etc.

T206 REFERENCE.....questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a ?-able pose
 

Hi Mike....I like your take regarding "pre-game" activities. It' a good one.

McGraw's glove looks like a Catcher's mitt. So, perhaps he was getting a feel of his Pitchers stuff before the game.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE....questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a ?-able pose
 

William "Spike" Shannon from Pennsylvania (Pennsylvanians dominate in the T206 set)
was a Major Leaguer for 5 years (1904 - 1908). Played 10 years in the Minor Leagues.
His 350 Series card has been mistaken by some T206 collectors as a "horizontal" card.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...350Shannon.jpg



There are only 6 cards that were printed with horizontal images. They are in the 150 Series.

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...zontalt206.jpg

TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE....questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a ?-able pose
 

The "questionable" factor of these 2 cards** is not that they're questionable. But it's damn difficult to find them if you are working on
a run of the Elite 11 group. T206 PIEDMONT 350 cards normally aren't considered to be rare. But all 11 of these guys certainly are.
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...iGanJonKar.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...sEPDGx25_1.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...anJonKarBk.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lSchShaSpe.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...chShaSpeBk.jpg


** Dahlen (Boston) and ** Spencer are without a doubt the most difficult to find of the Elite 11 group. Here is the timeline of the transitional status of 10 of these
players during the time American Lithographic started printing PIEDMONT 350 backs.


Bill Dahlen............... Oct 27, 1909....signed by Brooklyn. [this may explain why Dahlen (Boston) was short-printed].
Bob Ewing............... Jan 10, 1910....traded to the Phillies

Bob Ganley.............. May 18, 1909....traded to Philadelphia A's

Tom Jones............... Aug 20, 1909....traded to Detroit

Ed Karger................ June 9, 1909.....sold to St. Paul Saints (American Association)
............................. July 26, 1909....traded to Boston (AL)

Vive Lindaman......... July 7, 1909....Major League career ends

Carl Lundgren.......... Apr 23, 1909....Major League career ends

Germany Schaefer.....Aug 13, 1909....traded to Washington

Al Shaw.................. 1910....played with Wichita Jobbers (Western League)

Tubby Spencer......... Circa July 1909....after catching 28 games with Boston, he quit them for the season [this may explain why Spencer was short-printed].
............................. In 1910 he played for the St. Paul Saints (American Association).



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

T206 REFERENCE...... "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign ....…... UZIT


Hey guys,

These famous lyrics from the Eagles song "Hotel California" appropriately describe many of us serious T206 collectors.

I've been collecting T206's for 40+ years, now. I have had many 1000's of these cards. Currently, my collection remains at 2600+ different T206's.

Let us hear from you all about how "hooked" you are collecting them. Tell us your interesting stories, and show some cards if the mood strikes you.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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T206 REFERENCE..... "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"
 

Since there haven't been any responses to this new topic which I started this time last nite, here's a friendly bump to the top and we'll see what develops.

In 1980, when Bill Heitman published his famous book, little did I know as I read it, I was metaphorically entering the "Hotel California".

I have checked out several times (to other hobby interests) these past 40 years, but have always returned to T206's. As is obvious, having put together 5
near-complete (or complete sets) and numerous sub-sets.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...onsterBook.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.