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  #1  
Old 07-30-2008, 04:25 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: josh

ID Kept private... is this card legit? I remember there were a lot of concerns with the Craig's list PSA cards a while back and they made it on Ebay.... You guys know better than anyone... I really want this card and want to bid but is this on the up and up???? I appreciate the feedback... Thanks!

http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Ty-Cobb-Portrait-Red-PSA-7-NM-El-Principe-De_W0QQitemZ260266841102QQihZ016QQcategoryZ31718QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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  #2  
Old 07-30-2008, 04:31 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: lj

just go to psa's web site and check the cert number

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  #3  
Old 07-30-2008, 04:46 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Adam

I have bought many things from London Venture -- great seller.

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  #4  
Old 07-30-2008, 04:47 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: B O'Brien

This one was in a sellers store a couple weeks ago and went to this buyer for $5600 with an ask of $6700, I think. I was watching to see how long it would last. She's a beauty!

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  #5  
Old 07-30-2008, 04:49 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I always wonder about sellers who use a corporate name and don't let you know the name of the individual you are dealing with.

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  #6  
Old 07-30-2008, 05:00 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

There's simply no valid reason to use a private auction on such a card: it's shady, raises a red flag and protects shill bidding (including hiding bidders' identities who may be associated with the seller in an effort to inflate the price). And the seller knows this and is still using this format. I wouldn't touch this card with a ten foot pole for this reason.

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  #7  
Old 07-30-2008, 05:01 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

I pretty sure Charlie Barokas, Man on The Rock, would be able to provide details about this seller.

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  #8  
Old 07-30-2008, 05:08 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: josh

I really wanted this card but something tells me this is not on the up and up....... that is why I asked you experts..... it looks like one of those Craig's list PSA cards.

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  #9  
Old 07-30-2008, 05:15 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Brian

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  #10  
Old 07-30-2008, 05:36 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: steve

I too saw this card listed and was very interested - until I saw the centering - that did it for me - move on.

Centering is too high on my list to drop big bucks. Would be forever looking at the card thinking, "damn, I wish the centering wasn't so poor."

But to other folks the centering might be no big deal. Everything else looks ok, but I would try to at least talk to the seller - feel him/her out, then make purchase decision.

Also, a Cobb red PSA 7 is about the same pop as a green PSA 5. And the green PSA 5's in todays market are $4.5 to 5k. don't pay any more unless the card is stellar for the grade.

steve.

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  #11  
Old 07-30-2008, 05:52 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I am sure he (whoever he may be) has the card and you would win it if you bid high enough, and receive it. I don't think that is an issue. But as Jeff says there may be other concerns ... or there may not be. Perhaps the seller can explain to you why he took it private.

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  #12  
Old 07-30-2008, 05:57 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: paulstratton

Razor sharp.

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  #13  
Old 07-30-2008, 06:05 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yes, those corners are razor sharp. Impressive piece of work.

Edited to add: yes, Paul, true!

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  #14  
Old 07-30-2008, 06:47 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Eric Brehm

I bought from london_venture on eBay once in the last year and the seller's name was given as Joseph S. Kemprowski of West Nyack, NY.

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  #15  
Old 07-30-2008, 07:27 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: paulstratton

I think you mean Shappe Jeff.

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  #16  
Old 07-30-2008, 07:29 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Matt

Eric - you are serious, right? Googling Joseph S. Kemprowski brings up some interesting stuff.

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  #17  
Old 07-30-2008, 07:31 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Always incorporate in the Yukon Territory, I say.

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  #18  
Old 07-30-2008, 07:39 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Eric Brehm

Matt -- yes, that is the name and city that appeared on my eBay "You Won" notice. I won a T206 Home Run Baker, paid via PayPal, and received the card with no problem.

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  #19  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:10 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Matt

Eric - yikes; maybe some of the lawyers can help explain what he was convicted of.

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  #20  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:20 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: josh

I asked him why the bidders were kept private. This is the exact response I just received...


Dear illinipride,

No idea, it was check as a default so I just left it. Does it really matter?

- london_venture

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  #21  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:28 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

(sings)
Don't want to land in no San Juan Airport
Or the Yukon Territory..

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  #22  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:29 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Boy, what a liar. "Does it matter?" What a laugher.

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  #23  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:30 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter, is the Yukon territory near Seattle?

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  #24  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:32 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Did we not hear a similar explanation on that overprint Young card?

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  #25  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:33 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I will have to ask some of my corporate colleagues the reason to incorporate there, I have heard of incorporating in the Cayman Islands, or the Marshall Islands, but not the Yukon.

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  #26  
Old 07-31-2008, 03:01 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: D. Bergin

Aren't all auctions on Ebay pretty close to being private auctions nowadays? You can see the high bidder when the auction is over but that's it.

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  #27  
Old 07-31-2008, 03:32 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Scot Reader

Mr. Kemprowski did business on eBay for at least a couple of years under the name "rosieXXXX" (the "XXXX" is a number can't remember). He won several of my T206 auctions and always paid promptly.

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  #28  
Old 07-31-2008, 03:48 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: quan

thanks for that info scot. i was underbidder on the m101-4 herpo joe jackson psa6 that ended. rosie7495 did buy it from elkins a few months back...i have no idea who beat me today because it's a private auction but if it's legit the seller lost quite a bit of money. i would've been happy to pay my snipe.

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  #29  
Old 07-31-2008, 03:56 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Josh

Here is what I just received.....

Dear illinipride,

Whats the difference? Why do people need to know who is bidding on it unless they have some scam going where they wont bid against eachother?


- london_venture

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  #30  
Old 07-31-2008, 04:49 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: marty q

i made a good offer to this seller 5 months ago for this card, i since picked up a red 7, but not with epdg back, i am talking a few hundred bucks away, he didnt budge, he has that right of course, i bought the other i had my eye on and that was that. the centering is fine?? whats the problem with it, not 50/50? slightly better and it might be an 8. from the scan i got the corners were real nice!! i agree with jeff, i don't like the response to your ?. i am not saying this guy does this, sounds like a few of the guy's had a great transaction with him, but big $$$ cards with private bidder that is slightly lower than normal means a shilling is coming, and i don't mean curt of the redsox. ........"again".....not accusing this guy of anything, but this is one of the red flags of auctions like this. it's to do no rsv with private bidders. take a census for yourself, look at private bidder auctions, never see a rsv. or very rarely see one. just my opinion that means nothing.

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  #31  
Old 07-31-2008, 05:10 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Daryl

For what it's worth I have bought 3 high dollar T206's off London Venture and all went perfect. One of the best on Ebay.

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  #32  
Old 07-31-2008, 06:50 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: pas

suggesting something is wrong with a buyer for preferring a non-private auction

hmmmmm.....

if it was a mistake, why not just leave it at that and not go on the offensive

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  #33  
Old 07-31-2008, 07:23 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Anthony S.

That is one fascinating google search.

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  #34  
Old 07-31-2008, 07:35 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: marty q

peter spaeth brings a good point! why got offensive about it? if you want to bid josh, bid what you think is fair, keep a max in your head and dont get into a bidding war. not much you can do after that.

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  #35  
Old 07-31-2008, 07:46 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Craig W

I just bought a PSA 3 T206 Bob Ewing from this seller on the 25th. Paid by paypal. Card arrived today via UPS in a sturdy cardboard box with foam padding. Very smooth transaction. No name was given for the seller other than London Venture Capital, West Nyack, NY. They do give a customer service phone # 845-624-4686.

Regards,
Craig

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  #36  
Old 07-31-2008, 08:05 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: pas

http://realtor.fizber.com/New-York/West-Nyack/

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  #37  
Old 07-31-2008, 08:37 PM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

That's some funny stuff. Now the guy who only runs private auctions accuses someone who challenges it by claiming the BUYER is a fraudster. What a laugher. And just remember, although you may have bought a card successfully from a seller doesn't mean you weren't shilled. The fact is, a private auction allows the seller to use multiple ebay names to bid up his auctions and no one is ever the wiser.

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  #38  
Old 08-01-2008, 09:38 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: ali_lapoint

i dont know why you guys think he's a fraud just because he has private bidders. his explanation is the same one i'd give if someone asked me why i had the bidders as private. what difference does it make? if a card is graded then it's real. if the cert checks out then its real. if the guy's feedback checks out then its real. what is it about bidder id's that makes you feel more comfrotable about a card?

and as for the self bidding conspiracy, there was only 1 bid on the card. and if london venture is a venture capital firm it wouldn't be unsual to find them listed under various industries since all a venture capital firm does is find different ways to make money. i think you guys are reading too much into this seller.

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  #39  
Old 08-01-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Anonymous

In my experience venture capital firms are not usually real estate agents, but I could be wrong.

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  #40  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:15 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ali, just because a card is real does not mean that no shill bidding is involved in the auction. Sellers often use private auctions in an effort to hide their shill bidding. If you're in Chicago and you run into any FBI agents ask them -- they'll confrim that even auctions for very expensive cards can include shills.

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  #41  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:31 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: ali_lapoint

as i pointed out jeff, there was only 1 bidder on the card. if it was a shill bidder it was a very inexperienced one. i don't see any reason to worry about this guy. his feedback is impeccable and the seller has done over 1700 transactions on ebay.

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  #42  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:43 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Anonymous

Venture capital (also known as VC or Venture) is a type of private equity capital typically provided to immature, high-potential, growth companies in the interest of generating a return through an eventual realization event such as an IPO or trade sale of the company. Venture capital investments are generally made as cash in exchange for shares in the invested company

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  #43  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:56 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: ali_lapoint

well look, we can argue over particulars all we want that don't have much to do with what we're talking about all day.

the point i'm trying to make it that the guy has 100 percent feedback rating over 1700 low and high dollar transactions. there was also only 1 bidder on the card so i don't know why anyone would suspect a shill bidder.

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  #44  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:58 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Anonymous

I think Jeff's point is not so much the outcome of the particular auction or even the motive of the particular seller but the appearance created when a seller makes an auction private, because of the POTENTIAL to disguise shill bidding.

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  #45  
Old 08-01-2008, 11:06 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

How do you know that the 'buyer' was not associated with the seller and simply provided a hidden reserve for the card? Had the seller not insisted upon only running private auctions I wouldn't be so dubious -- but that's what you get when you refuse to show any transparency.

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  #46  
Old 08-01-2008, 11:12 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: ali_lapoint

you're free to feel how you want. if you look at his feedback rating you'll find positives left by a user who has bought from this guy 48 times and left 48 positive feedbacks. the buyer too has a 100 percent feedback rating over 12,000 transactions. to me, comments like these are a much better indicator of someone's merit and honesty than whether or not they have private bidders.

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  #47  
Old 08-01-2008, 11:12 AM
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Default Need your help on this T206 Cobb Red PSA7 El Principe De
Posted By: Anthony S.

I don't think the question is whether the cards they sell are real, or whether they ship promptly, or package the cards diligently. It's pretty apparent they're fine on all those counts.

The question is why do they choose private auctions over public auctions. When someone runs a private auction, they remove all transparency. Obviously, it suggests that just maybe they have a compelling reason to prevent bidders from seeing who else is bidding on the card. Now, maybe they do, maybe they don't, but they're hiding information from the bidder. The bidder can never truly know whether the auction was shilled or not. Perfect feedback becomes irrelevant at that point, because the only things the buyers truly know are that they received the card promptly, it's real, and it was packaged well.

Now knowing all that, when you find out the seller's name, not the company's name, mind you, but the individual who you are actually sending the check (paypal, whatever) to, and you run a search on that name, and that search reveals that that seller has engaged in deception before (albeit in a different capacity), wouldn't their choice of running exclusively private auctions give you pause?

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