E254 Ryan (St. Paul) - Photo ID Confirmed

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

There has been talk about cards that depict wrong players in recent months and I wanted to point out a card of a potential "Future" HOFer that may some-day be an issue like some of the other HOFer/non-HOFer talk that we had on the Clarkson Mayo thread.

The E254 card of Ryan for St. Paul is supposed to be a card of Jack (Gulfport) Ryan who was with St. Paul at the time the card was being made. The player pictured bears no resemblance to Jack and my brother (Rhys) and I have long thought the image of Jimmy Ryan (one from later in his career) was used by accident, the picture would have been nearly 10 years old at the time they used it.

Browsing through the Robert Edwards catalogue today confims what we had thought, that the E254 Colgan of Ryan while attempting to depict Jack Ryan in fact depicts Jimmy Ryan while in his last years as a pro with the Washington Senators. In REA they have a copy of Jimmy's Breisch-Williams card which uses the same photo. Photo of E107 Ryan is from REA online catalogue.

So here is another example of a card with the wrong photo, but whose card is it? A Jack Ryan card with wrong photo, or a Jimmy Ryan card with wrong team (7-8 years made after his retirement? Or is it a little of both?

I tend to think the latter, but regardless it is an interesting conundrum.

-Rhett

E254 Ryan (St. Paul)


E107 Ryan (from REA)

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

First, excellent detective work, there!!!


I think that they intended to make a card of St. Paul's Jack Ryan... so that is what it is, with a wrong photo.

And while I agree that the cards use the same image as their source, that doesn't definitely identify whose photo that is. We need team photos of both teams. It seems unlikely, but the E107 card might not depict jimmy Ryan.

Great find, though!!!

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Posted By: John S

That's awesome Rhett. It would be useful to do a Colgan's only list of incorrect players. I think we have mentioned Kelly and Hinchman and I am sure that there are others.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

John just off the top of my head yo can add to that list Jordan (Atlanta) it pictures Tim Jordan but was supposed to be Adolph (Otto) Jordan (one of the t206 SLers) and also Murray of St. Paul was supposed to be James O. Murray but they used a picture of John J. (Red) Murray of the New York Giants.

Also, the photo for the Ryan has a "W" on the chest in the Breisch-Williams which is part of what confirmed the identity to me, as Jimmy was with Washington in 1902 and 1903,
-Rhett

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Again, really good stuff. And I recall puzzling over my Julius Weisman Colgans card, trying to figure out which way he was looking and which one was the card with his correct photo.


But just because a W is on his chest doesn't mean that he's Ryan. Kip Selbach, for example, was with Washington in 1903, a photo of him would have a W on the front, and that wouldn't be Jimmy Ryan. I still think you have it correctly analyzed, but team photos of St. Paul and Washington would help nail it down.


And I just found your StarsOfTheDiamond site. GREAT!!! Years ago I spoke with Bill Haber on the telephone about Colgans. He loved the set, and was of the belief that all of them weren't checklisted. I wish he were alive today. He'd be posting here and emailing you there.

With kind regards,

Frank.