For what it's worth - Memory Lane Lot 1023

[Archive]

Posted By: Louis Despres

I find this a bit difficult to understand how this item could have received an accurate loa from PSA/DNA. View the scans, Mack must have been very good to exactly duplicate his autograph. Louis

http://www.memorylaneinc.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=7785&getauctionid=66

My copy:


Memory Lane copy:


Memory Lane signature:


Signature on my copy:


Reverse on my copy:


Detail of reverse:

[Archive]

Posted By: Chad

The pen even missed the indentations in the paper in the same places. Maybe the A's stunk for all those years because Mack was spending all his time on his autographs.

--Chad

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

And we think there are problems in the card hobby. Autographs = tooth fairies....LOA, COA, BFD.....

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

Have you alerted Memory Lane or PSA?

[Archive]

Posted By: E, Daniel

http://www.signaturemachine.com/products/demo_page.htm?OVRAW=auto%20pen&OVKEY=auto%20pen&OVMTC=standard&OVADID=538080021&OVKWID=2019596521



Daniel

[Archive]

Posted By: Louis Despres

I called about this lot the day I received their catalogue and was told they would look into it. It must have been 1 1/2 to 2 weeks ago. I may be mistaken, but I do not remember the line about the authentication of this lot originally being in the auction website discription prior to my phone call. p.s. I only bought mine because it had been signed across the chest, albeit now slightly faded. Louis

[Archive]

Posted By: David Atkatz

...PSA can't differentiate between a written signature and a printed facsimile.

(And yet you can't sell an autograph these days unless it's been vetted by these jerks.)

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D

wow.

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

Did they have autopens when mack would have signed that piece? More likely it a reproduction of an originally signed piece. Just curious Louis - am I correct that yours is an authentic autograph or is yours a reprint?

[Archive]

Posted By: E, Daniel

JK, I was thinking a more recent use of the autopen.....If the auto is just a facsimile, well that would just be incredulous that anyone at PSA could not tell the difference! But not impossible I guess.


Daniel

[Archive]

Posted By: Louis Despres

The "autograph" in the margin, I believe is a facsimile which seems to have been printed with the image. The auto across Mack's chest is written in ink with a fountain pen, but I have never had it "authenticated". Louis

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

thanks for alerting us

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

I hadn't heard of Mack ever using an autopen. Autopens are rare in baseball, but are common with politicians. Beyond forgeries, the only thing you really have to worry about for baseball folks are stamped signature (easy to id, as they look like stamps not real writing) and secretarial signatures (again, won't look like the real sig). Of course, many baseball items have pre-printed signatures, but most realize that their 1971 Topps card wasn't actually autographed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D

I think the fear is that someone other than Mack could use the autopen to create Mack's autograph (or anybody's autograph for that matter).

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

The key with an autopen is that it will make identical signatures. This is part of how people know when a signature is an autopen. It's an exact duplicate of one seen before.

Autopens were made for to be used many, many times-- a US Senator not wanting to sign 5,000 office letters each week--, so most autopen signatures for famous people have been identified. If Mack himself used an autopen, I'm sure we would have heard of it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't think it was autopenned, I think it was printed along with the pic on the page. Not only does the signature match up, but it's located in the EXACT same position on the page. Looks to me like they're selling a printed signature as an autograph.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D

It looks like the difficult part is done.

I bet a hacker, if given the time to work on the machine, could modify the machine to create acceptable variances of the autograph. Setting the machine to randomly and slightly vary the signature with each pass. So that no two are exactly the same.

Its not that much of a stretch. And doesn't make me feel too comfortable.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joseph

Pathetic

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

Is it at all possible that this is the original authentic signature that Louis copy was made from?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

If someone posts here that JP is a cheat I'm sure that his caddy, the mortgage boy, will come in and explain it all.

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

Some people don't like their autographed photos or notes personalized to people
("To Gary," "Hi Jenny!"), but just remember: autopens don't make
personalizations. If the signature and personalization are in the
same ink and handwriting, it's not an autopen. A particularly useful
tip when the autograph is from a politician, where autopens are more common.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric B

If you look at the second "n" you will notice a white speck halfway down where the ink didn't catch (indentation on the original). So it's a facsimile - not an autopen.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve Murray

Matt asks a very interesting question. Any thoughts?

[Archive]

Posted By: Joseph

Perhaps the good folks over at Memory Lane will see this offering (and then the light) from the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society web site:






Jeez, I hope they're at least selling the 1939 version and not the eight-buck repro!

[Archive]

Posted By: dstudeba

Matt/Steve -

If the back is blank, then it might be possible. But I highly doubt that the original from which the copies were made were on the exact same type of paper.

[Archive]

Posted By: DJ

It's not autopen, but a facsmilie signature and is it a surprise that "one of the top firms" authenticated it? It shouldn't be.

We have no idea who authenticated it. Which one of the authenticators gave it the "okay" and in most cases, it's all about matching signatures to exemplars and this facsmilie would match nicely if the person looking at the signature isn't aware of this piece existing.

If you read autographalert.com, they have posted a number of stories about PSA/DNA passing rubber stamped signatures including a similar case as this involving a P.T Barnum that has shown up in several well known seller catalogs in authentic form, despite being a famous pre-print. And the famous pre-printed Bruce Springsteen Gold Record first reported by Richard Simon on his staff that came authenticated.

The more you authenticate, the bigger you have to be, the bigger your staff and the more stuff you look at...equals more errors.

DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark T

Memory Lane took out the LOA/COA from PSA---can't find it on the listing now!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

They still have a problem. I just checked my catalog and the authentication is still in there on page 134. I don't think they can fix that one.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark T

I know the listing said LOA/COA from PSA early this afternoon. I wonder if next we will see the listing pulled.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joseph

You have to admit the online description is much improved with the deletion of the PSA
authentication. It now simply reads, "Incredible Connie Mack signature.." Indeed!

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark T

It sucks for the people who already bid on it, they could have got it for $8.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Seems appropriate in light of Barnum's famous saying, "There's a sucker born every minute."

See my recent thread "Auction house double standard" for more comment on the sad state of the auction aspect of this hobby.

Tim

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yes Mark, but what fun would an $8 sale be for the auction house? 17.5% BP and 10% SP on eight bucks just doesn't cut it for Memory Lane.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve Murray

No mention of LOA/COA from PSA but where in the F is the F word....FACSIMILE?????

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

autographs = tooth fairies....I believe in tooth fairies more....

[Archive]

Posted By: Rand Brotman

What the hell is it going to take to get a governmental audit on this company & others?????? GEES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

if you look under the memory lane logo it says......AUCTION NAME: High Grade Card Auction and a Few Surprises....well here is one of the surprises.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chad

autographs = tooth fairies....I believe in tooth fairies more....


I happen to have an autograph of the Tooth fairy for sale. Cheap, too!

--Chad

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

"I happen to have an autograph of the Tooth fairy for sale. Cheap, too!"

I don't think the LOA will be too good - you can't claim to have received the autograph in person if you were sleeping when it was signed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chad

So all is good. You can trust me!

--Chad

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

I am going to be down to just two: REA and Sloate.

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

Given the inefficiencies of consigning (uncertainty, buyer's premiums, possible seller's premiums, delay, etc.) I am surprised so many auction houses seem to be able to remain competitive.

[Archive]

Posted By: Louis Despres

After Matt's post, I emailed for a scan of the reverse. Will keep you posted if I get a reply. Louis

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard Simon

I just saw the catalog auction page and the PSA-DNA logo is proudly displayed next to the Mack photo.
Did PSA actually examine this item in person???
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

it's even worse if they display the psa "seal of approval" if psa did not look at it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joseph

We all should be proud:

http://www.memorylaneinc.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=7785&getauctionid=66

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Error in the listing: "We said it was real when it was fake and then got caught unfortunately before it sold."

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

certainly happy at the result, but it's embarrassing that there needed to be a thread with 50 posts to have it withdrawn after the mistake was recognized.