PSA Scandal -- buy back 9s, resell as 10s

[bk400]

One of the other threads referenced a scandal at PSA. I hadn't heard about this, so I googled it. Came up with a recent incident where a guy submitted 30 Pokemon cards, got all 9s. He then accepted the PSA buy back offer.

Shortly thereafter, PSA relists the same cards -- same cert numbers -- for sale as 10s.

Is this the scandal that people are talking about? If so, it sounds pretty bad.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes. And again, from the opening narration of the Outer Limits.

We control the horizontal. We control the vertical.

Brazen if true, ain't it?

[chalupacollects]

There have been other reports of this happening also…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bk400]

How did PSA explain that one? It's so....bad.

[G1911]

At some point, when the customers are this stupid and keep throwing money at them and excusing all the blatant incompetence and corruption, it's hard to blame PSA for taking advantages of these morons who just reward them no matter what.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

How did PSA explain that one? It's so....bad.

They don't need to answer to anyone. Just play ostrich. See #1 below.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They don't need to answer to anyone.

Yeah, that's inspiring. I guess when one of the owners was ensnared in a massive insider trading scandal and more or less came away with his reputation intact, we shouldn't be too surprised.

Well, I don't submit much for grading, but I do purchase my fair share of PSA-graded cards. I knew there was some BS when it came to differentiating 9s and 10s, particularly for modern cards, but this lays bare the reason for the lack of differentiation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

Yeah, that's inspiring. I guess when one of the owners was ensnared in a massive insider trading scandal and more or less came away with his reputation intact, we shouldn't be too surprised.

Well, I don't submit much for grading, but I do purchase my fair share of PSA-graded cards. I knew there was some BS when it came to differentiating 9s and 10s, particularly for modern cards, but this lays bare the reason for the lack of differentiation.

Buy 100 PSA 10s from a high volume submitter, resubmit the same cards raw, and see how many 10s you come away with. See #4 below.

[D. Bergin]

Is there any photo evidence of this?

[ClementeFanOh]

If true I'd be shocked, I tell you- just shocked. Their sterling reputation
speaks for itself! Trent King

[theshowandme]

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Why allow the offers before the grades are finalized?

I had a related problem that I actually went to Nat with years ago I was upcharged for a card that got a 4. I called the consignor with the good news, then, two days later, they reversed the upcharge and gave me a 3, so I actually believe this can happen, but why the hell would you allow the offer (or in my case initiate the upcharge) until the process was complete. Oddly he agreed that it was screwed up at the time.

I've been telling people it's not PSA making the offers, but nobody wants to listen to that.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Why allow the offers before the grades are finalized?

Two product teams not doing enough integration testing.

Lesson learned for them.

Nat is a tech guy before anything else.

I doubt this defect exists in a week or two.

[Beercan collector]

Here’s a shorts video showing what bk400 referenced
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jcX6LcCmvHc

[D. Bergin]

So did 30 nines turn into 30 tens…or was it just a small percentage of the submission that was upgraded on review?

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

So did 30 nines turn into 30 tens…or was it just a small percentage of the submission that was upgraded on review?

At the beginning of the video near the top I see where it says a minimum of 10-12 received a grade of 10

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

At the beginning of the video near the top I see where it says a minimum of 10-12 received a grade of 10

No I take that back I read that wrong, He was expecting 10 or 12 but they all were graded nine

[Johnny630]

Question ? Nat Turner said it's not PSA Buying but a Network of Third Party Buyers... Who are the third party buyers? How would one get to be a part of the these third party buyers?

[parkplace33]

I wonder how often this happening with vintage. Not 9s to 10s, but what about 5s to 7s. And very hard to prove with vintage cards.

[doug.goodman]

I love these threads and the ballet of lies that are the business model of the opinion sellers.

Doug "Happy to beat living, yet considered dead, horses since April 2009" Goodman

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Why allow the offers before the grades are finalized? .

Totally agree with this. Just seems dangerous to do this.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Totally agree with this. Just seems dangerous to do this.

Not that it makes it okay, but I suspect timing is part of the fun here. If you wait until the grades are final final final, then it’s time to ship to the owner, and no time to really make offers and have any time for the owner to entertain them. Otherwise, we will all complain that they’re sitting on our stuff and not shipping it fast enough, because they add in this buyback process at the very end.

[shagrotn77]

What doesn't add up to me is that the QA Checks part of the process takes place BEFORE the grades are revealed:

[SeventiesCard]

Originally Posted by raulus

Not that it makes it okay, but I suspect timing is part of the fun here. If you wait until the grades are final final final, then it’s time to ship to the owner, and no time to really make offers and have any time for the owner to entertain them. Otherwise, we will all complain that they’re sitting on our stuff and not shipping it fast enough, because they add in this buyback process at the very end.

They have the cards for 6 months. Timing is suddenly a concern?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by SeventiesCard

They have the cards for 6 months. Timing is suddenly a concern?

By golly, after waiting that long, I don’t want them to sit on it any longer, just for some silly buyback program.

[SeventiesCard]

Originally Posted by raulus

By golly, after waiting that long, I don’t want them to sit on it any longer, just for some silly buyback program.

I agree. I'm just saying that there isn't a time crunch. They have a lot of runway.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by G1911

At some point, when the customers are this stupid and keep throwing money at them and excusing all the blatant incompetence and corruption, it's hard to blame PSA for taking advantages of these morons who just reward them no matter what.

This.

And as for putting any stock at all in what Goof Wilson says… keep in mind that he is heavily sponsored by PSA. Not exactly the place to go for an objective or insightful opinion.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

What doesn't add up to me is that the QA Checks part of the process takes place BEFORE the grades are revealed:

This. Smells fishy.

[Exhibitman]

Yeah, that's what happened...sure...

[Fred]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Yeah, that Geoff Wilson guy sounds really credible...
.
.
.

[Fred]

At what point do people finally pull their heads out of their a$$es and just admit this part of the "hobby" is compromised.

Do people actually believe this crap doesn't happen, frequently?
.
.
.

[Rich Klein]

Just as they do at Burbank, PSA will be setting up in Geoff's Store (Cards HQ) going forward

https://www.cardshq.com/pages/gradin...JMD9XcAtDSpX1K

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by bk400

One of the other threads referenced a scandal at PSA. I hadn't heard about this, so I googled it.

I used to cross-post scandals like this so collectors here had greater awareness, but I was dressed down as a Debbie Downer by members of the board and decided to stop doing it. Caveat emptor.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Question ? Nat Turner said it's not PSA Buying but a Network of Third Party Buyers... Who are the third party buyers? How would one get to be a part of the these third party buyers?

The current buyers aren't named, but not too hard to guess, and PSA has announced they plan on expanding the program via applications in the future.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It can't be "said" enough in these threads...

[raulus]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

It can't be "said" enough in these threads...

Say it…don’t spray it!

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They don't need to answer to anyone. Just play ostrich.

Originally Posted by G1911

At some point, when the customers are this stupid and keep throwing money at them and excusing all the blatant incompetence and corruption, it's hard to blame PSA for taking advantages of these morons who just reward them no matter what.

Truth! 'Nuff said.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Nat Turner said it's not PSA Buying but a Network of Third Party Buyers... Who are the third party buyers?

Geoff Wilson, Nat Turner and associates.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

How would one get to be a part of the these third party buyers?

Sorry. It's a closed club and they're not welcoming new members.

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes. And again, from the opening narration of the Outer Limits.

We control the horizontal. We control the vertical.

Brazen if true, ain't it?

indeed

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Geoff Wilson, Nat Turner and associates.



Sorry. It's a closed club and they're not welcoming new members.

Hahahah the Third Party Club !