Day 2 Thursday at the National.

[Golfcollector]

Left the hotel and arrived at 9:35. Started in where I left off yesterday, to make sure I covered the entire convention center.

Pretty busy right out of the gate. Lots of folks toting pelican cases (especially younger collectors) and lots of back packs and rolling luggage. I went the "cardsupial" rout - LOVE the new collectorisms by the way - which is a cross shoulder pack, smaller but good for cards, snacks and a water.

Some cool stuff on display at auction houses, including Lou Gehrig Uniform, the rare Joe Doyle, a restored Wagner, and a litany of other cards and memorabillia. Got to See A Crawford Lenox in person, which is nice as a Crawford Collector.

By noon the aisles were getting pretty cramped, and the temperature was getting more uncomfortable. Fortunately the VIP are is MUCH cooler, glad I went that rout

Met a 13 year old collector at the VIP area. Very astute young collector with a full pelican full of modern goodness and dropping terminology such as Dollar Cost Average of opening certain packs for the wrapper redemptions. This youngster knows how to wheel and deal in modern and was making numerous deals at the show.

Had another young collector sitting with me pull a Victor Wembanyama RC out of a panini silver National packs. Photo below.

Some Thursday notes:

VeeFriends is crazy busy...I mean Stoopid. Lots of people chasing these "cards"

Topps unopened wax was selling like mad for people to get in on redemption packs. The cost was up 20 to 25 bones from yesterday.

Other musings:

Saw 3 deals in vintage exceeding 10k in cash. Some high end vintage seems to be moving well.

I have seen more Red Cobbs in total than all total Sam Crawford cards.


Dealers are treating young collectors very well

I had a PSA pick up today. I dropped off yesterday and was to have it by noon today. I was notified after 5 pm it was ready. LONG line at PSA with a mad scamble to pick up....and NUMEROUS people were not getting the order done by end of day today and were less than amused. Even more seemed less than amused with their grades.

SGC boith had some traffic I did not go past the other larger TPG areas.

Lot of collectors I spoke to today were headed to trade night tonight.

[Casey2296]

Nice D381's, no comment on the rack full of Jordan rookies.

[wagnerj03]

Thanks for the photos and recap!

[Hxcmilkshake]

Nice photos!!! Hope that guy moves that Wembanyama! Sell it while its hot!

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Nice D381's, no comment on the rack full of Jordan rookies.

Love the D381s!

[mrreality68]

nice photos and thanks for sharing

Great Recap.

Great that the 13 year old collector is knowledgeable and I hope he is a collector. It sounds like he is more of an investor and someone is teaching him to flip cards for profit since he knows about Dollar Cost Average

[jbsports33]

Great stuff! thank you for sharing - good luck the rest of the show

Jimmy

[Rhotchkiss]

These pictures are amazing, thank you for posting!! Keep them coming.

What dealer owns the Fleishmans (and all the OJs) and what dealer owns the both with the W600s?

[gonefishin]

Thanks for the recap and photos. Those of us that couldn't make it really appreciate the photos and info!

[JollyElm]

Not sure if this interests you, but in watching this video:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?&...SC4&ajaxhist=0
I saw the guy had a Sam Crawford signed check from 1951 in his display case (a little before the 5:00 mark).

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

... what dealer owns the both with the W600s?

I'd also like to know. Wow!

[Tennis13]

I am going to auction a few cards and have a meeting tomorrow with 2 houses. If there is anyone at the national who is well versed in this, good steak is on me if you want to talk cards and coach me through the process

[isiahfan]

Much better Day 2 getting in...oversold VIP still....General Admission sent upstairs again....never seen as many people on a Thursday...Has to be a record. Still hot as balls. Still stupid deals on cheaper stuff...not so much on vintage...at least what I was looking for. For example...54 Kaline rookies in graded 6 usually go on ebay for the last year at 1.2K-1.7K....the few decent examples I found...6.5 was $2.8k and a 5.5 was gong for $2.4K. This was really the only vintage cards I was looking for other than 68 Tigers and about 12 57 Topps super stars for me set (which were also fairly pricey but some decent.

My buddy had a consigned 85% complete signed 1952 Auto Set (Table 935...Cards by Jack)...was asking $90K...which I thought was reasonable...and impressive.

Hopefully next non-Chi show is Hotlanta...because AC is a hole and so is Baltimore...given up any hope for a DEN/SD/LA/LV National at this point. Heard AC is offering a $1K kickback for each vendor..but all those I talked to said this isn't enough for them to go back and most would flat out skip it...and Baltimore..if it went back there.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

Much better Day 2 getting in...oversold VIP still....General Admission sent upstairs again....never seen as many people on a Thursday...Has to be a record. Still hot as balls. Still stupid deals on cheaper stuff...not so much on vintage...at least what I was looking for. For example...54 Kaline rookies in graded 6 usually go on ebay for the last year at 1.2K-1.7K....the few decent examples I found...6.5 was $2.8k and a 5.5 was gong for $2.4K. This was really the only vintage cards I was looking for other than 68 Tigers and about 12 57 Topps super stars for me set (which were also fairly pricey but some decent.

My buddy had a consigned 85% complete signed 1952 Auto Set (Table 935...Cards by Jack)...was asking $90K...which I thought was reasonable...and impressive.

Hopefully next non-Chi show is Hotlanta...because AC is a hole and so is Baltimore...given up any hope for a DEN/SD/LA/LV National at this point. Heard AC is offering a $1K kickback for each vendor..but all those I talked to said this isn't enough for them to go back and most would flat out skip it...and Baltimore..if it went back there.

Good stuff thanks for sharing

[Huck]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

Hopefully next non-Chi show is Hotlanta...because AC is a hole and so is Baltimore...given up any hope for a DEN/SD/LA/LV National at this point. Heard AC is offering a $1K kickback for each vendor..but all those I talked to said this isn't enough for them to go back and most would flat out skip it...and Baltimore..if it went back there.

Do the dealers provide any reasons as to why AC and Baltimore are not desirable? I was under the impression that the two shows in Baltimore did quite well. One reason why the National will likely not return to Baltimore is purportedly the convention center does not book that far out (2-3 years). A second reason now, is that the convention center at 300,000 square feet may not be large enough. I find the "I won't go chatter" akin to employees claiming that they are going to quit if management does so-and-so. Is a dealer really going to miss the biggest show of the year? Space for next years National are handed out this week. I don't think a dealer can simply skip a National and maintain their seniority ranking for space. I am sure the vendors on purportedly the years long waiting list would gladly pick up the slack. You think Chicago is hot, Chicago has nothing on late July early August Atlanta heat. Oh lawd is it hot there.

I think the issue with Vegas is that there is not enough of a collecting/dealer base within driving distance. I would think that the majority of folks would have to fly in. Talk about another place that is hotter than the devils spit.

What about Washington DC? There is a large convention center in of all places Kentucky. What about Kentucky?

[isiahfan]

Originally Posted by Huck

Do the dealers provide any reasons as to why AC and Baltimore are not desirable? I was under the impression that the two shows in Baltimore did quite well. One reason why the National will likely not return to Baltimore is purportedly the convention center does not book that far out (2-3 years). A second reason now, is that the convention center at 300,000 square feet may not be large enough. I find the "I won't go chatter" akin to employees claiming that they are going to quit if management does so-and-so. Is a dealer really going to miss the biggest show of the year? Space for next years National are handed out this week. I don't think a dealer can simply skip a National and maintain their seniority ranking for space. I am sure the vendors on purportedly the years long waiting list would gladly pick up the slack. You think Chicago is hot, Chicago has nothing on late July early August Atlanta heat. Oh lawd is it hot there.

I think the issue with Vegas is that there is not enough of a collecting/dealer base within driving distance. I would think that the majority of folks would have to fly in. Talk about another place that is hotter than the devils spit.

What about Washington DC? There is a large convention center in of all places Kentucky. What about Kentucky?

I think most of the "chatter" about AC has been well documented...but I tend to agree with your Baltimore observations.

Of the dealers I talked to...I felt 3 of them were serious about skipping AC if that were the 2026 choice. I am under the same impression that you lose your place in line if you miss/skip a show...not positive.

I think almost every big city has the infrastructure to handle a large size convention...some better than others....I will make this pitch about San Diego..

Huge Convention Center (hosts comicon annually)
2 miles from the airport
public transport (trolley)
in the heart of downtown....TONS of stuff to do/places to eat
tons of hotels
incredibly safe area
INCREDIBLY pleasant area
weather...best in the country/world...never too hot

Biggest downside would be it's in the absolute corner of the country...get over it

[Huck]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

I think most of the "chatter" about AC has been well documented...but I tend to agree with your Baltimore observations.

Of the dealers I talked to...I felt 3 of them were serious about skipping AC if that were the 2026 choice. I am under the same impression that you lose your place in line if you miss/skip a show...not positive.

I think almost every big city has the infrastructure to handle a large size convention...some better than others....I will make this pitch about San Diego..

Huge Convention Center (hosts comicon annually)
2 miles from the airport
public transport (trolley)
in the heart of downtown....TONS of stuff to do/places to eat
tons of hotels
incredibly safe area
INCREDIBLY pleasant area
weather...best in the country/world...never too hot

Biggest downside would be it's in the absolute corner of the country...get over it

Should the National rotate among 5-6 cities? Of course it should. Will it? Unlikely.

Here is my take and just a theory.

1) 80% of the US population lives to the east of the 100th degree of longitude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=wwJABxjcvUc (interesting video).

The majority of collectors/dealers live east of this line. The National excluded, where are the other larger shows located? The CSA show in Chantilly. The Philly show in PA. JP's in NYC. The Fanatics show in IL. Cardboard promotions in MA. The GBSCC in MA. There is Tristar in Houston and another show now in Dallas. I can't think of any other major shows that are on my radar. Yes, in some locales there are smaller monthly shows. If you read Tony Gordon's blog, he seems to set-up at card shows just about every weekend. Some shows serve chili dogs made by the ladies of the local rotary.

The baseball hall of fame is in Cooperstown, NY. NFL, Canton OH, Basketball, Springfield MA, NHL, Toronto, Canada. These shrines lie east of the 100th meridian! Move east collector! Move east! The west coast are where shows go to die. This reminds me of the old Sam Kinison bit on world hunger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA


2) The Anaheim show in 1991 was the largest attended National. The National returned to Anaheim in 2006 and has never returned.

"But did he ever return?
No he never returned
And his fate is still unlearned (poor old Charlie)
He may ride forever
'Neath the streets of Boston
He's the man, who never returned"

Sorry, at times I breakout and sing Kingston Trio songs.

So, what drove the National to abandon the city with the largest attendance in the shows history? According to National historians "Anaheim has been removed for a reason, after the 1991 record attendance show, dealers have complained that sales were low compared to costs. Dealers rule at these shows, not attendees." As for Atlanta the 1999 show was the lowest attended show 20 years.
and the 2014 Cleveland show was the 3rd highest." The ROI argument would likely hold for Vegas as well.

In our data driven universe it boggles my mind that the National braintrust does not mine the collectors for data. Perhaps the braintrust just listens to the dealers. Perhaps the population data is enough. Promote shows where the majority is located seems simple enough. I question whether any data is used at all.

3) Cost. Given that 80% of the population lives east of the 100th, that means the cost of a flight and a hotel. The west locales are not in driving distance for 80% of the population.

Things do change. From the show recaps, the corporations dominate the floor space. Perhaps the corporations will have a bigger say as to where the National is held. The corporations could likely careless where the show is held. Chicago, Atlanta and Atlantic City are the three cities being considered to host the 2026 National. Perhaps the 2026 will return to Atlanta.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Huck

Do the dealers provide any reasons as to why AC and Baltimore are not desirable?

Baltimore:

The convention center itself is about the only positive aspect of the experience. Not a bad room. The inner city itself is one of the most scum-infested armpits on the continent (I have nothing against the suburbs). Take half a step in any direction from the touristy area and you're in the ghetto. Definitely ranks as one of my least favorite places. The summer heat is unbearable, especially if you have to walk from your hotel to the venue, which I always did.