Seriously WTF is this? Card doctors are acceptable now?

[T205 GB]

Just scrolling through FB and happened upon this. Makes me sick to my stomach. Be careful who you buy from and where you buy from. Since it’s FB and public info I am not removing names. I’m just disappointed anyone would use this and yet they complain about the fraud in the hobby.

Is this now acceptable? How do you feel about this?

[Leon]

I don't go to FB much but cleaning a card is a relative term, as we all know.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Cleaning these is usually buffing out finger prints because of the crazy glossy surface. Less invasive, but similar to, removing a wax stain for a 1968 Topps. If that;s all that's going on it doesn't bother me and I'm pretty much massively on the record against doctoring.

[packs]

Being called card cleaning but when it comes to foil all it probably means in practice is taking a dry erase to the card front.

[T205 GB]

So if the card comes out with a scratch or is damaged with one then it’s okay to alter it because it’s new or a foil card? Buffing to remove defects is altering IMO. Isn’t there a big issue now with altered cards? Print defects being fixed and passed off. Same thing IMO.

[packs]

I think it's more like you find a person who doesn't know any better that's going to pay you to rub a dry erase on their card without any post-work guarantees.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by packs

I think it's more like you find a person who doesn't know any better that's going to pay you to rub a dry erase on their card without any post-work guarantees.

I can see this being an issue in the future.

[packs]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

I can see this being an issue in the future.

A fool and his money will always be an issue. But it doesn't sound like this guy is trimming anything. I'm fairly certain he's taking gullible people's money and not doing much to get it.

[slightlyrounded]

This hobby is ridiculous.

(and i'm mostly referring to the market incentives for cleaning cards in the first place, not the service itself)

[perezfan]

Yep, it used to be a hobby that honored and revered history and its past players.

Now it’s become a vehicle for quick flippers, profits, greed, ego and wealthy (yet clueless) collectors afflicted with severe OCD.

I bet PSA wishes they could do so some banning and censoring of that Facebook Group. It has to be somewhat embarrassing for them to be “played” like that in such public fashion.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yep, it used to be a hobby that honored and revered history and its past players.

Now it’s become a vehicle for quick flippers, profits, greed, ego and wealthy (yet clueless) collectors afflicted with severe OCD.

I bet PSA wishes they could do so some banning and censoring of that Facebook Group. It has to be somewhat embarrassing for them to be “played” like that in such public fashion.

Teflon PSA doesn't care whatsoever. In fact, they might have already privately message them inviting them to the next seminar on how they grade cards and what graders look for.

[jchcollins]

So technically - yeah, but this is nothing new. I think YouTube videos on how to clean / remove fingerprints, etc. from shiny new modern cards have been around since before the first of the PWCC revelations. I don't know, I don't collect modern, so find it pretty hard to get fired-up about more card doctoring suspicions there when we have more than enough to go around here each week with vintage cards.

[Leon]

All niches have been affected it seems.

Originally Posted by jchcollins

So technically - yeah, but this is nothing new. I think YouTube videos on how to clean / remove fingerprints, etc. from shiny new modern cards have been around since before the first of the PWCC revelations. I don't know, I don't collect modern, so find it pretty hard to get fired-up about more card doctoring suspicions there when we have more than enough to go around here each week with vintage cards.

[swarmee]

There are modern card collectors that buff out scratches from chrome cards using Meguiar's car wax. This guy is probably just using a microfiber eyeglass cloth to remove fingerprints, which can improve a grade like 1.5 points from an 8.5 to a 10.

[Leon]

I don't have a problem with taking something off of a card (not the borders ) as long as a solvent isn't used, other than water. That is a big spread for taking fingerprints off.

Originally Posted by swarmee

There are modern card collectors that buff out scratches from chrome cards using Meguiar's car wax. This guy is probably just using a microfiber eyeglass cloth to remove fingerprints, which can improve a grade like 1.5 points from an 8.5 to a 10.

[T205 GB]

I guess altering cards to improve grades is a legit business model. I am just mind blown this is allowed and just blatantly aired out like it’s no big deal.

[Johnny630]

I've learned in this industry/hobby not to let anything surprise me anymore.

[bobbyw8469]

Is it ironic this thread is right above a thread asking which cards can and can't be soaked???

Sorry, I don't consider wiping off fingerprints as an alteration to the card, nor do I see it as a service that should require payment. Its more like common sense

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Sorry, I don't consider wiping off fingerprints as an alteration to the card, nor do I see it as a service that should require payment. Its more like common sense

First off I never mentioned anything about wiping off fingerprints. That would be absurd to assume that wiping off the fingerprint is alteration. The use of a wax compound to buff and enhance the surface is absolutely alteration. The services provided by some those companies even blatantly state that that is what they were doing.

Several people have mentioned it's essentially a "fingerprint removal" service. That's what I'm referring to

[packs]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

First off I never mentioned anything about wiping off fingerprints. That would be absurd to assume that wiping off the fingerprint is alteration. The use of a wax compound to buff and enhance the surface is absolutely alteration. The services provided by some those companies even blatantly state that that is what they were doing.

I'm pretty sure in terms of modern foil buffing off fingerprints probably makes up 98% of services rendered. This just seems like an easy way to make a buck without really doing anything.

[Leon]

If that is the case then sign me up!

Originally Posted by packs

I'm pretty sure in terms of modern foil buffing off fingerprints probably makes up 98% of services rendered. This just seems like an easy way to make a buck without really doing anything.