NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for BSelling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:36 PM
Brent Huigens's Avatar
Brent Huigens Brent Huigens is offline
PWCC Marketplace
member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
Posts: 60
Default PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns

We are obviously very aware of the issues surrounding the cards submitted to us by Gary Moser. First, we want to apologize to all those who have been affected by the purchasing of trimmed or altered cards. We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light and this information makes its way to our customers. We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess and will do all that we can to make it right in connection with Moser-submitted cards as well as other submitters who may have altered cards of which we auctioned. We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities. Finally, in response to these recent findings, we are no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards.

We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:39 PM
CuriousGeorge's Avatar
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is online now
Ste.ven Lich.tman
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 268
Default

Well that’s a start.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:43 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Rhetorical question, but why have you been selling them for at least a decade?

Relatedly, I guess you lied two years ago when you told me and Leon that Gary had pretty much retired. According to what you told us, he only "graded" a card "once in a while." Ha.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 05:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:46 PM
Bram99 Bram99 is offline
Tony S.tins.a
Tony Stins.a
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Elmhurst, IL
Posts: 251
Default and another question....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
We are obviously very aware of the issues surrounding the cards submitted to us by Gary Moser. First, we want to apologize to all those who have been affected by the purchasing of trimmed or altered cards. We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light and this information makes its way to our customers. We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess and will do all that we can to make it right in connection with Moser-submitted cards as well as other submitters who may have altered cards of which we auctioned. We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities. Finally, in response to these recent findings, we are no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards.

We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.
Have all Moser related cards been removed from the current ongoing auction?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:46 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram99 View Post
Have all Moser related cards been removed from the current ongoing auction?
Do you believe anything this man says at this point?
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:49 PM
CobbSpikedMe's Avatar
CobbSpikedMe CobbSpikedMe is offline
Andy H.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 1,407
Default

nope
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar.

The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here
My Online Trading Site: Click Here
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
My Humble Blog: Click Here
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:52 PM
CuriousGeorge's Avatar
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is online now
Ste.ven Lich.tman
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement.
I think this line alone makes it pretty clear how quickly this is all moving.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:52 PM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
Chuck Tapia
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,526
Default

Ouch. You said you would do this 3 weeks ago but then the scam continues. Why is that? You have a long history of blowing smoke up peoples a***

While I appreciate what you are trying to do, I gave you a pass 3 weeks ago. Then you let it continue until your are pretty much forced to just today?

Personally, I hope you get sued by PSA.

I will reserve the right to change my opinion of you but as for now, you are neck deep in quicksand my handsome friend and the play stands as called on the field. Good Luck Brent Mastro.

Last edited by Fuddjcal; 06-02-2019 at 05:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:53 PM
CobbSpikedMe's Avatar
CobbSpikedMe CobbSpikedMe is offline
Andy H.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 1,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
I think this line alone makes it pretty clear how quickly this is all moving.
Sounds like they are getting ready to throw Moser under the bus and save their own asses.
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar.

The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here
My Online Trading Site: Click Here
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
My Humble Blog: Click Here
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:00 PM
Mark17 Mark17 is offline
M@rk S@tterstr0m
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities.
Sounds like an attorney has been hired.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:02 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
Sounds like they are getting ready to throw Moser under the bus and save their own asses.
And PSA. I was sort of wondering who would be sacrificed to keep them going. My money was on some poor new hire grader - yet another reason why I almost never bet on anything. (Of course, it's not over yet... )
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:03 PM
111gecko 111gecko is offline
G.ary L.eavitt
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 219
Default Vault

Wondering how many people are thinking it might me a good idea to empty the “vault” about now...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:04 PM
CuriousGeorge's Avatar
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is online now
Ste.ven Lich.tman
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 268
Default

Where’s the guy who was laying 4:1?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:07 PM
bounce bounce is offline
DR
David R@tliff
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.
Do you know Gary Moser? - "Yes"
Do you accept consignments from Gary Moser? - "Yes"

Are there any Moser consigned cards in the current auction?
Did you submit cards to any TPGs on behalf of Gary Moser?
Did you accept bids from Gary Moser?
If so, did you ever cross check items Gary Moser won against items he consigned?
Did you buy cards on your account, and then resell them in your own auctions?
If so, was that disclosed in the auctions?

This is a good start, I reserve the right to ask additional follow ups depending on the answers.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:10 PM
iowadoc77 iowadoc77 is offline
Eric
Eric
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,470
Default

Good start with those questions. Not sure we can handle the truth but I think we know what it is
__________________
Seeking: Honus Wagner seeking T5 batting pose
Pinkerton T5 Ty Cobb either pose
Type 1 photos
I still love the hobby
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:18 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,660
Default

[quote=Brent Huigens; We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light...[/QUOTE]

1. “Presently Working with PSA”...
That is hardly new news. You’ve been “working” with them for a long time.

2. “Ensure all affected cards are brought to light”...
What a joke! It’s a tad late for that. The virus has spread way beyond PWCC’s control or any means that law enforcement can employ to contain them all. They are in circulation now, and there are hundreds (if not thousands) of bogus cards in PSA slabs that will never be fully accounted for.

Unless PSA goes down with you, these cards will continue to be sold and traded at a premium, to unknowing innocent victims. You let the cat out of the bag, and it is never coming back in.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:18 PM
BengoughingForAwhile BengoughingForAwhile is offline
Charlie Ma.nn
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
We are obviously very aware of the issues surrounding the cards submitted to us by Gary Moser. First, we want to apologize to all those who have been affected by the purchasing of trimmed or altered cards. We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light and this information makes its way to our customers. We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess and will do all that we can to make it right in connection with Moser-submitted cards as well as other submitters who may have altered cards of which we auctioned. We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities. Finally, in response to these recent findings, we are no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards.

We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.
How will you "ensure that all affected cards are brought to light"? Will you be releasing a list of ALL cards you have sold connected to Gary Moser, so that the present owners of these cards can determine if they have been altered?

Last edited by BengoughingForAwhile; 06-02-2019 at 07:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:21 PM
pgconboy's Avatar
pgconboy pgconboy is offline
Peirce Conboy
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CA by way of MN
Posts: 49
Default

This entire situation looks incredibly dire.
__________________
WIP All Time Baseball Team: https://imgur.com/a/N4LjC
WTB: Looking for @ SCG/PSA 1.5-3.5ish E95: Cobb, Cicotte
WTB: 1932 Caramel Lefty Grove, 1914 Cracker Jack Grover Alexander
Extensive Magic The Gathering collection, possibly willing to trade some for E95/Pre War HOFers.
Football Auto Collection: https://www.instagram.com/goatrosters/
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:30 PM
Rhotchkiss's Avatar
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,725
Default

What about the PSA 6.5, T206 Jennings AB 460 that is in your current auction. That used to sit in a PSA 4 case and they have confirmed on blowout that it has been altered (the mark under his armpit) and based on another thread it appears it is a Moser card; at least it was submitted by moser to PSA after it was altered.

Let’s Start by removing the cards in your current auction that are known to be altered and/or ”Mosered”
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:35 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,318
Default

Cancel the entire auction, and sell your vaults to cover the losses.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:38 PM
CobbSpikedMe's Avatar
CobbSpikedMe CobbSpikedMe is offline
Andy H.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 1,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
And PSA. I was sort of wondering who would be sacrificed to keep them going. My money was on some poor new hire grader - yet another reason why I almost never bet on anything. (Of course, it's not over yet... )
I don't know. It feels, to me, that they are partnering up with PSA as they work with law enforcement together. They will claim ignorance to the whole thing and blame Moser for doing all the fraud on his own. Like you, I almost never bet on anything though.
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar.

The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here
My Online Trading Site: Click Here
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
My Humble Blog: Click Here
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:43 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,660
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
What about the PSA 6.5, T206 Jennings AB 460 that is in your current auction. That used to sit in a PSA 4 case and they have confirmed on blowout that it has been altered (the mark under his armpit) and based on another thread it appears it is a Moser card; at least it was submitted by moser to PSA after it was altered.

Let’s Start by removing the cards in your current auction that are known to be altered and/or ”Mosered”
Let’s make a note of whether that card is indeed removed. If that auction is terminated, then maybe that’s a tiny first step in the right direction.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:46 PM
bounce bounce is offline
DR
David R@tliff
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
I don't know. It feels, to me, that they are partnering up with PSA as they work with law enforcement together.
I guess that's one theory...

They do not appear to have published their apology on the PSA website.

I haven't been able to find any posts from them in the Collectors Universe forum. That forum overall is much less active than here or Blowout, but I'm pretty sure they've posted there before. Maybe I'm just missing it, if someone can find it let me know and I'll revise this.

I don't see any PWCC banners anywhere on the PSA site. Pretty sure they used to be there.

I don't see any PWCC banners on the VCP site, or in the "Auction want list" section on the home page. Pretty sure they used to be there.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:54 PM
CuriousGeorge's Avatar
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is online now
Ste.ven Lich.tman
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bounce View Post
I don't see any PWCC banners on the VCP site, or in the "Auction want list" section on the home page. Pretty sure they used to be there.
I imagine eBay made them take down the banners this weekend. Apparently they couldn’t wait until July 4th weekend to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:56 PM
midwaylandscaping midwaylandscaping is offline
David Riley
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge View Post
i imagine ebay made them take down the banners this weekend. Apparently they couldn’t wait until july 4th weekend to do it.


:d:d:d
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:01 PM
commishbob's Avatar
commishbob commishbob is online now
Bob Andrews (threadkiller)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Houston Tx Area
Posts: 687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post

We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.
Too late
__________________
My hobby blogs: Five Tool Collector 1959 Topps Baseball 1958 Topps Baseball 1960 Topps Baseball

Current Projects: 1957 Topps Baseball, 1953 Bowman Football, 1960 Leaf Baseball

Player Collections: Billy Pierce, Charles Bender, Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Elston Howard, Mike Cuellar Always looking for unique Billy Pierce items

People are crazy and times are strange, I used to care but things have changed -Dylan
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:04 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 7,599
Default

__________________
Please visit my web site: www.americasgreatboxingcards.com
Judge a man by how he treats someone who can do nothing for him--Nick Charles
Buying the card and not the holder for 40 years.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:14 PM
vintagebaseballcardguy's Avatar
vintagebaseballcardguy vintagebaseballcardguy is offline
R0b3rt Ch!ld3rs
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,003
Default

Like a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar...

Of course you are sorry, you got caught. Own it...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:36 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
j'a'y mi.ll.e.r
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 4,253
Default

It's funny reading this thread with the PWCC banner showing up at the top.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:42 PM
AddieJoss AddieJoss is offline
Cory
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Windermere, FL
Posts: 756
Default The list

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengoughingForAwhile View Post
How will you "ensure that all affected cards are brought to light"? Will you be releasing a list of ALL cards you have sold connected to Gary Moser, so that the present owners of these cards can determine if they have been altered?
I was told by Brent, that list is coming in the near future.

Cory Weiser
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:48 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,318
Default

"WE'RE GONNA NEED A BIGGER LIST!" CaptainSpaulding on BO says that he has another 16 submissions tied to this scandal.

Brent, how do you like my new PSA slogan: "IN ON IT OR IMPOTENT?"
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:55 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AddieJoss View Post
I was told by Brent, that list is coming in the near future.

Cory Weiser
That's so sweet of him after polluting the hobby with altered cards for a decade and a half or however long it's been.

Why not just let bygones be bygones and we'll all get along, eh?
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 07:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:56 PM
topcat61 topcat61 is offline
Ryan
Ryan McCla.nahan
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
We are obviously very aware of the issues surrounding the cards submitted to us by Gary Moser. First, we want to apologize to all those who have been affected by the purchasing of trimmed or altered cards. We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light and this information makes its way to our customers. We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess and will do all that we can to make it right in connection with Moser-submitted cards as well as other submitters who may have altered cards of which we auctioned. We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities. Finally, in response to these recent findings, we are no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards.

We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.
I have a few questions for Mr. Huigens:

1) Which law enforcement agency was contacted? Did PWCC contact this agency?
2) When was it contacted or a case opened? Who's the name of the individual on the case?
3) Is there any proof of this?

My main concern is that PWCC didn't look over these cards and have questions before auction? What auction house doesn't inspect the items to a) make sure they're not stolen and b) not damaged or altered prior? An investigator who has some knowledge of the Hobby and auction houses and grading companies are going to have some questions that might be very difficult for PWCC to answer.

This also opens up legitimate concerns about the practices of PSA.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:58 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat61 View Post
My main concern is that PWCC didn't look over these cards and have questions before auction?
Brent states that he personally inspects EVERY CARD VALUED AT $250 OR OVER to consider them for his stickers.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:59 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Brent states that he personally inspects EVERY CARD VALUED AT $250 OR OVER to consider them for his stickers.
With due respect that's not the issue. He probably doesn't know enough about cards to spot Moser's artistry. The point is he knew very well what Moser does, and knowingly took his altered cards to sell. And maybe even submitted some for him. And maybe the partnership went even beyond that.

The flat out lie to me (and Leon) that Moser was essentially out of the business two or three years ago really infuriates me, in case you can't tell.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 08:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:08 PM
bounce bounce is offline
DR
David R@tliff
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AddieJoss View Post
I was told by Brent, that list is coming in the near future.

Cory Weiser
I'm honestly asking, are you being sarcastic?

With everything else that has happened to this point, why would anyone believe the completeness of any list PWCC releases?

Without proper validation, which would require PWCC data, PSA data (possibly other TPGs) and eBay data, there's no way to have any confidence.

None of this even addresses whether this is isolated to this single individual, or if there are other people or elements involved.

There is zero trust right now, another "statement" or list isn't going to change that. They have not been forthcoming in the past, no one should expect them be now.

Said differently, it's always "short".
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:10 PM
pgconboy's Avatar
pgconboy pgconboy is offline
Peirce Conboy
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CA by way of MN
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bounce View Post
I'm honestly asking, are you being sarcastic?

With everything else that has happened to this point, why would anyone believe the completeness of any list PWCC releases?

Without proper validation, which would require PWCC data, PSA data (possibly other TPGs) and eBay data, there's no way to have any confidence.

None of this even addresses whether this is isolated to this single individual, or if there are other people or elements involved.

There is zero trust right now, another "statement" or list isn't going to change that. They have not been forthcoming in the past, no one should expect them be now.

Said differently, it's always "short".
I'd bet my house that internet detectives will find cards missing from any list they provide unless its a giant .csv file of every card ever sold.
__________________
WIP All Time Baseball Team: https://imgur.com/a/N4LjC
WTB: Looking for @ SCG/PSA 1.5-3.5ish E95: Cobb, Cicotte
WTB: 1932 Caramel Lefty Grove, 1914 Cracker Jack Grover Alexander
Extensive Magic The Gathering collection, possibly willing to trade some for E95/Pre War HOFers.
Football Auto Collection: https://www.instagram.com/goatrosters/
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:11 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,318
Default

Brent has been fencing cards for up to 10 different revealed scammers. I would like to see all of those on the list too (PSA,BGS). I would like those companies to COMPLETELY DECERTIFY ALL THOSE NUMBERS.

You don't get what you don't ask for.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:12 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bounce View Post
I'm honestly asking, are you being sarcastic?

With everything else that has happened to this point, why would anyone believe the completeness of any list PWCC releases?

Without proper validation, which would require PWCC data, PSA data (possibly other TPGs) and eBay data, there's no way to have any confidence.

None of this even addresses whether this is isolated to this single individual, or if there are other people or elements involved.

There is zero trust right now, another "statement" or list isn't going to change that. They have not been forthcoming in the past, no one should expect them be now.

Said differently, it's always "short".
David as you've likely seen, on the modern side there are similar threads on known trimmers and PWCC on BO.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:13 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Brent has been fencing cards for up to 10 different revealed scammers. I would like to see all of those on the list too (PSA,BGS). I would like those companies to COMPLETELY DECERTIFY ALL THOSE NUMBERS.

You don't get what you don't ask for.
You might blow up a few collections. Or more than a few.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:16 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
You might blow up a few collections. Or more than a few.
Collateral Damage; you think everyone will know at that point? All collectors will know.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:19 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Collateral Damage; you think everyone will know at that point? All collectors will know.
A lot of collectors are just in it for the money and ego though, at the high end of things. Not all of course.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:20 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

PSA has a very tough needle to thread, on the one hand the people who hate altered cards and are livid are going to demand major change; on the other hand people with major bucks tied up in collections may resist that change if it means taking away some of their high grade cards.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:22 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,318
Default

They can turn them in now or see their value plummet in 6 months.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:25 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
They can turn them in now or see their value plummet in 6 months.
I think ultimately for many of these folks when push comes to shove the flip is going to trump the card.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:26 PM
Fballguy's Avatar
Fballguy Fballguy is offline
Rob
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 875
Default

Probably the most poetic post I've seen here. Bravo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
__________________
R0b G@@13t
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:39 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,318
Default

Wow those guys on the PSA board are clueless. They've read about 3 total posts and not the 20+ threads on this scam and are defending PWCC... but when the place is moderated the way it's moderated, no surprise.
"They feed me dirt and keep me in the dark!"
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:41 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Wow those guys on the PSA board are clueless. They've read about 3 total posts and not the 20+ threads on this scam and are defending PWCC... but when the place is moderated the way it's moderated, no surprise.
"They feed me dirt and keep me in the dark!"
Happens here all the time John. People intentionally don't inform themselves, then pontificate.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:46 PM
joshuanip's Avatar
joshuanip joshuanip is offline
Joshua
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 418
Default

I may be in the minority, but I hope Brent / PSA rebounds from this and criminal charges will be pressed on the card docs. People will be angry if this is the result because of the smoking gun from culpability, but I hope the hobby burns through this hot topic we are facing. punitive consequences will be defined and the maturity of our hobby’s use of tech/social media (thanks to our “super sleuths”) will act as a deterrent and make us stronger from this.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree with the majority, but would be happy with realistic expectations.

Last edited by joshuanip; 06-02-2019 at 08:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:46 PM
benjulmag benjulmag is offline
CoreyRS.hanus
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 581
Default All depends......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I think ultimately for many of these folks when push comes to shove the flip is going to trump the card.
Should the day come that substance triumphs over form and to hold value vintage high-grade cards will have to pass muster under a new kind of grading service that makes use of what technology can (in a cost-effective manner) reveal with regard to alterations, the flip might not triumph. I get it that such a scenario might be wishful thinking. However, I can see a path how it can come about -- a new grading service comes into being employing such technology while accompanied by a pronounced and well-run marketing campaign which exposes the significant likelihood that high-grade vintage cards with old flips are altered. Or maybe even SGC could bring it about it they ever get their act together and are willing to spend the bucks and engage the right marketing experts, while at the same time investing in such technology. This is not the hobby of yesteryear where cards sold for tens or hundreds of dollars, and thousand dollar cards were anomalies. We are now routinely in 5, 6 and 7 figure category, and it is about time our evaluation methods caught up.

How many posts have there been that the net54 community is only a very small subset of the collecting community, and that what is common knowledge on this Board is not generally known outside it. Well, change that reality and then there might (finally) be the real change so many of us are clamoring for.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brent/PWCC interview on recent controversies Stonepony Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 204 05-27-2019 07:33 PM
PWCC Recent Closings Exhibitman Boxing / Wrestling Cards & Memorabilia Forum 8 03-29-2018 06:05 PM
Recent PWCC Auction Snapolit1 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 09-08-2016 02:50 PM
Thoughts on this card? (trimming, stain, etc) scmavl Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 4 04-01-2011 01:32 PM
Interesting Story Concerning Card Trimming and Grading Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 04-10-2002 07:43 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:25 PM.


ebay GSB