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  #1  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:40 PM
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Brent Huigens Brent Huigens is offline
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Default Announcing the PWCC Marketplace Tenets

We at PWCC will not tolerate our brandís use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable.

Prior sale research by dedicated hobbyists in the marketplace using our Auction Sales History, Worth Point, and other resources has given rise to a new level of oversight. We now have the grounds to take a public stance without concern that altered assets will simply flow to another venue for sale.

The grading companies need the help and patience of the market as we collectively aid growth and refine procedures and oversight. We feel they do a tremendous job handling a very difficult and demanding task and our market benefits greatly from their service. The grading companies are owed more from those of us who sell their products, and we must collectively take action to protect the market.

PWCC will officially cease working with any individual who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies upon which our market is based. We will collaborate with the grading companies to ensure bad actors are flagged, uniformly known, and that all is done to prevent them from affecting our market. PWCC will not work with any individuals whom the grading companies have banned, regardless of their individual track record with PWCC.

We are proud to announce the PWCC Marketplace Tenets which describe the basis that PWCC will operate moving forward. It also includes the PWCC Marketplace Guarantee, which asserts that any professionally-graded item previously sold by PWCC and later proven altered will be eligible for a full refund of the original purchase price. Any items flagged for alteration in current possession of PWCC will be removed from the marketplace. In both cases, PWCC will work with both our submitters, buyers and the grading companies to review the item, and if confirmed to be altered, remove those items from circulation and ensure our customers receive the proper support throughout the process.

There will always be individuals looking to take advantage of any market. We at PWCC are now in a position to do something proactive and protect our brand and the larger marketplace.

We welcome feedback. Please email me at betsy@pwccmarketplace.com anytime.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/marketplace-tenets
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  #2  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:43 PM
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Except youíve known for years Gary Moser alters cards and yet despite that knowledge you sold his cards. And submitted his cards.
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  #3  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:52 PM
MikeGarcia MikeGarcia is offline
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Except youíve known for years Gary Moser alters cards and yet despite that knowledge you sold his cards. And submitted his cards.
How does a T P G know who is the submitter ? I thought the item was issued only an internal-use serial number once inside the front door ? Or am I living in La La Ville ?

..
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeGarcia View Post
How does a T P G know who is the submitter ? I thought the item was issued only an internal-use serial number once inside the front door ? Or am I living in La La Ville ?

..
The latter
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  #5  
Old 05-14-2019, 04:05 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Using your own auction history...who would have thought? Sans the cards that were seemingly not recorded per blowout thread. How about noting which ones are owned by the "auction house"?
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  #6  
Old 05-14-2019, 04:13 PM
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Can we get a list of all the cards that were submitted by the individual(s)
to your company and sold based on what has been flagged to date on
the blowout forums?

I have a couple high end cards purchased in PWCC auctions and if they
are on the list I'd like to start the refund process by your company as
soon as possible.

Thanks
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2019, 04:18 PM
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Sounds good but this was the same thing said when PWCC was busted for letting people shill their auctions. "We are going to monitor and take action". We know where that went.

What I find odd is why wasn't PWCC taking action over known trimmers/card alterers over a year ago (DiMaggio) if you were so worried about your reputation? Why did it take other hobbyists to do the work you should have been doing? Would you have been posting this thread if they didn't expose this fraud?


Sorry, just not buying anything will change.
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2019, 04:19 PM
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I am a believer in redemption and I applaud any positive change that is genuine. I suggested cutting certain ties in my post on the other thread so if you really mean it, I welcome that. It's long overdue.

But I guess one obvious question is how do we know you really are going to cut those ties, or have done so? Call me cynical but given the track record just a hint of which has emerged on Blowout, I don't think it's reasonable just to expect us to take your word for it. Especially when the timing is pretty obvious -- you are doing this (if you are doing it) because you got caught red-handed and had no choice.

So what is your proposed verification mechanism?

And yes you have agreed to buy back altered cards, which I also applaud. But that puts the burden on the owner and with a slabbed card that can be a very onerous one. Most of us are not capable of doing the detective work being done on Blowout. Of course you could disclose which cards you have previously auctioned from the people you say you no longer will accept cards from, but I doubt seriously you're going to do that.

Those are my initial thoughts.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyredlegs View Post
Would you have been posting this thread if they didn't expose this fraud?

Since others can talk for brent...i'll take this one! NOT LIKELY!!!
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  #10  
Old 05-14-2019, 04:54 PM
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Since your previous definition of conservation has been widely panned across a variety of sportscard message boards, are you going to retract those tenets?

Will you be posting a list of the verified fraudsters that are on the TPG "do not submit" lists so that the community is aware of them?

Are PWCC and the grading companies going to take civil legal action against scammers or at least report these crimes to law enforcement?

Will you inform the community in your auction listings which cards are owned by PWCC or employees? Submitted directly by PWCC?

Will you stop promoting state sales tax evasion as a "feature" of your Vault?
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  #11  
Old 05-14-2019, 07:18 PM
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I am exhausted by all of this. Who cares. I don’t believe any of this BS and I am sick of seeing the letters PWCC and PSA. Let’s look at some f-ing cards!!
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2019, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I am exhausted by all of this. Who cares. I donít believe any of this BS and I am sick of seeing the letters PWCC and PSA. Letís look at some f-ing cards!!
You probably should have picked 2 SGC cards.

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  #13  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:07 PM
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[quote=Leon;1877712]You probably should have picked 2 SGC cards.

This is why forums need a "like" or "laughing" button
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
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You probably should have picked 2 SGC cards.

LOL!!! I thought I was the only one who caught that!!! I'm sick of PSA! (posts two PSA cards).
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
LOL!!! I thought I was the only one who caught that!!! I'm sick of PSA! (posts two PSA cards).
No. I posted one PSA card (front and back), and one SGC. And I did not say I am sick of looking at cards in PSA flips, I said I am sick of the letters PSA and would prefer to look at cards. So I posted two cards to look at. But way to totally miss the point.
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  #16  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:53 PM
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Ryan, I think they're just goofing on you.
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:00 PM
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Ryan, I think they're just goofing on you.
Of course. Sorry Ryan, I am sitting here laughing at my computer. I got your point initially. There was just some irony so I thought I would add my half cent of humor and 2 cool SGC graded cards.
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:07 PM
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Fair enough. I guess I could have been a bit more mindful of the ironic (or stupid) juxtaposition of my pic and my post. Itís all good.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:56 AM
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That's a peach, Ryan.
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:23 AM
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If you pull the other leg it plays "Jingle Bells."

Come on, Brent, if you can't even say the name of the Lord Voldemort "who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies" then your proclamation is as feckless as all the previous ones. You want to be taken seriously, then cough up the name and a list of all cards he's consigned to you, and let's start seeing buy-backs, starting with Tony if he was a victim of this fraud.

The ball is in your court: let's see if you have a pair.
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  #21  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:28 AM
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Is it only one?
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  #22  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
You want to be taken seriously, then cough up the name and a list of all cards he's consigned to you, and let's start seeing buy-backs, starting with Tony if he was a victim of this fraud.
You're going to need a Grand Jury subpoena to get that info. His latest flailing attempt to stop the onrushing train is his claim that he's turning over a new new leaf (as opposed to his old new leaf). Didn't work for Doug and Bill, it's not going to work for Brent.
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  #23  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
You're going to need a Grand Jury subpoena to get that info. His latest flailing attempt to stop the onrushing train is his claim that he's turning over a new new leaf (as opposed to his old new leaf). Didn't work for Doug and Bill, it's not going to work for Brent.
Unintended irony I assume, but of course many 1948 (1949) Leafs were identified on the Blowout threads as having been altered and then auctioned by PWCC.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:48 AM
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Unintended irony I assume, but of course many 1948 (1949) Leafs were identified on the Blowout threads as having been altered and then auctioned by PWCC.
So what you're saying is that he's turning over a new new new Leaf?
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:52 AM
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:04 AM
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I have a rake you can borrow.
By the time this plays out a shovel may be more appropriate.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
If you pull the other leg it plays "Jingle Bells."

Come on, Brent, if you can't even say the name of the Lord Voldemort "who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies" then your proclamation is as feckless as all the previous ones. You want to be taken seriously, then cough up the name and a list of all cards he's consigned to you, and let's start seeing buy-backs, starting with Tony if he was a victim of this fraud.

The ball is in your court: let's see if you have a pair.
A pair he has not. I just want more stickers....forget integrity.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:11 AM
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So what you're saying is that he's turning over a new new new Leaf?
Yeah, he's turning over a new leaf to soak and trim it again. My guess is 50% of all the stuff he is selling is trimmed and he and everyone knows it.

I too would like to see a list of the losers he is dealing with and that he has kicked out before I have 1% trust in PWCC and their vault LOLOLOL
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
You're going to need a Grand Jury subpoena to get that info. His latest flailing attempt to stop the onrushing train is his claim that he's turning over a new new leaf (as opposed to his old new leaf). Didn't work for Doug and Bill, it's not going to work for Brent.
We can only hope my handsome friend...
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal View Post
Yeah, he's turning over a new leaf to soak and trim it again. My guess is 50% of all the stuff he is selling is trimmed and he and everyone knows it.

I too would like to see a list of the losers he is dealing with and that he has kicked out before I have 1% trust in PWCC and their vault LOLOLOL
Apparently we are just supposed to take him at his word, and as to the cards sold into the marketplace over the past however long it's been now, from these bad sources, it's up to us to figure that out. That's how I read it anyhow.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:30 AM
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If I recall correctly, they said they were turning over a new leaf and then went right back to doing the same things (or more)? I think Doug was directly quoted from this forum, by an authority we know....at a Dinner I was at. And almost each and every thing Doug said he would do, he ended up not doing. It was kind of funny hearing it in person by the person who was instrumental in putting him behind bars. We all owe a debt of gratitude to SA Brusokas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
You're going to need a Grand Jury subpoena to get that info. His latest flailing attempt to stop the onrushing train is his claim that he's turning over a new new leaf (as opposed to his old new leaf). Didn't work for Doug and Bill, it's not going to work for Brent.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
If I recall correctly, they said they were turning over a new leaf and then went right back to doing the same things (or more)? I think Doug was directly quoted from this forum, by an authority we know....at a Dinner I was at. And almost each and every thing Doug said he would do, he ended up not doing. It was kind of funny hearing it in person by the person who was instrumental in putting him behind bars. We all a debt of gratitude to SA Brusokas.
Yeah he put in that Code of Conduct and then apparently proceeded to ignore it. That's why, without much more disclosure and a verification mechanism, the current promises don't (to me anyhow) mean that much.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Yeah he put in that Code of Conduct and then apparently proceeded to ignore it. That's why, without much more disclosure and a verification mechanism, the current promises don't (to me anyhow) mean that much.
The current promises are meaningless on the issue of prosecuting past fraud.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:29 AM
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I've never consigned with PWCC. Do they guarantee their consignors anonymity as part of their terms of service?

If so, the only way they are releasing any sort of list of consignors with a history of submitting altered items or a list of the altered items themselves is with a court order.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:39 AM
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I've never consigned with PWCC. Do they guarantee their consignors anonymity as part of their terms of service?

If so, the only way they are releasing any sort of list of consignors with a history of submitting altered items or a list of the altered items themselves is with a court order.
They won't do it even if it's not in any formal agreement with consignors, IMO. But one can hope.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:45 AM
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Meanwhile...
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1293843
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
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What's the big deal? Brent sold "93 PROVEN TRIMMED Stephen Curry and James Harden Rookie Cards"?

Meanwhile, I've seen evidence that Brent knew that Gary Moser trimmed cards since 2008. 11 years ago.
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:00 PM
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I wonder if he reached out to investors and asked them not to bid on these examples?
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:18 PM
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I wonder if he reached out to investors and asked them not to bid on these examples?
I wonder how many are queued up for the Vault Marketplace or whatever it's called.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:20 PM
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I wonder how many are queued up for the Vault Marketplace or whatever it's called.
Posession is 9/10th of the law. Wonder what happened if items are confiscated?

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  #41  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Posession is 9/10th of the law. Wonder what happened if items are confiscated?

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It's worth the risk if you don't have to pay sales tax.
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's worth the risk if you don't have to pay sales tax.
LOL exactly.

Tell me, lawyer, when there's a criminal investigation of PWCC's fraud, do you think that lowers or raises the probability of an IRS audit for anyone who avails themselves of the tax avoidance vault?
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:06 PM
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93 PROVEN TRIMMED Stephen Curry and James Harden RCs Sold Via PWCC

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  #44  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:16 PM
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Warren Zevon time eh?
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  #45  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:18 PM
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removed

Last edited by 100backstroke; 05-15-2019 at 01:38 PM.
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  #46  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:50 PM
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PWCC, is it true that you're deleting your auction site records of altered cards? Probably better to mark them as "altered" and leave them up rather than delete your records. You could even have a mention of whether the card has been returned to you, and in turn, returned to the grading company.
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  #47  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:54 PM
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So... move out of your studio apartment! And try speaking to a real live woman, and GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it's just baseball cards dammit, IT'S JUST BASEBALL CARDS!
10% off any BIN in my eBay store (user name: exhibitman) for N54 members buying direct from me through this site instead, just PM me.
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  #48  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
I wonder if he reached out to investors and asked them not to bid on these examples?
Assets. They're called assets, Ted. Didn't you read the tenets?
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  #49  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
PWCC, is it true that you're deleting your auction site records of altered cards? Probably better to mark them as "altered" and leave them up rather than delete your records. You could even have a mention of whether the card has been returned to you, and in turn, returned to the grading company.
Brent is removing the evidence of sold altered cards now. Iím not sure how this squares with his good deeds for the hobby.
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  #50  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Brent is removing the evidence of sold altered cards now. Iím not sure how this squares with his good deeds for the hobby.
...but the leaf. It's still so.....newly turned.
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