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  #1  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:30 AM
polakoff polakoff is offline
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Default Mount Rushmore of Industry Icons

I write a blog for a local card shop, and in conjunction with the owner (who has considerable pull in the industry), we are developing the Mount Rushmore of Sports Card Industry Icons. (Unless otherwise told it's allowed by Leon, I won't mention the shop or the blog so as to not seem like I am advertising.) We are endeavoring to find the 4 most influential people on the sports card industry.

Criteria:
- Impact on Sports Card Collecting
- Long-term importance to the industry
- An innovator within the industry
- Brings favorable attention to the industry
- Favorable view from the industry
- Personal Passion towards the industry
- Did they expand the market
- Industry Icon

Our research thus far has uncovered a wide range of nominees:
- Sy Berger
- Jim Beckett
- Mickey Mantle
- David Hall
- Pierre Omidyar
- Richard McWilliam
- Jefferson Burdick
- Mike Berkus
- Honus Wagner
- Mr Mint
- Michael Jordan
- Don West
- Wayne Gretzky
- Larry Fritsch
- Bill Mastro

I'm asking for some more nominees here as Net54 is far and away the most knowledgeable group of people in the sports card world and I am hoping to uncover some more deserving nominees. For example, I wouldn't have given Gretzky a shot, until the argument was made that his greatest contribution was actually his purchase of the Wagner, which highlighted the value of vintage cards on a world stage and legitimized third party grading (although we all know how that one ended).

Are there others you think are deserving of this honor? After compiling a list of nominees, we will whittle them down to a final list for voting.

Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:42 AM
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Default Kit Young

Kit Young
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:50 AM
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Never mind.

Last edited by Orioles1954; 11-20-2018 at 08:51 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:54 AM
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Interesting. My first thought, given what I understand to be what you're asking, is that players have no place on the list.

I think Burdick and Mr. Mint are slam dunks. After that it gets hard. I think Beckett, Berger, and Fritsch are solid options, and I think Enos Goudey at least deserves a mention, if not consideration. The Mastro argument will be a good one, but one I steer clear of.
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:58 AM
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Gotta have the industry "B's" on there...Burdick for his cataloging, Berger for his innovation of products and Beckett for making collecting a popular hobby to the masses.

The 4th one is a little tougher...am torn between Mantle who was such a hero to so many and a hobby ambassador to early card shows drawing people in to rediscover their youth...and Fritsch who made those cards of our youth readily available by mail via his catalogs long before card shows were popular....toss a coin or have 5 on the mountain.



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  #6  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:58 AM
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Pioneer Buck Barker.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:03 AM
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Just to piss people off I will nominate Brett H. from PWCC.

Sells how many tens upon tens of thousands of cards a year. Has tried to create financial metrics for the collecting industry. Personally not a huge fan but hard to deny the impact PWCC has had.
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:03 AM
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Lionel Carter probably deserve at least a mention here, too.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:11 AM
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Looks like the criteria is very skewed towards people who did stuff more recently. That's a bit limiting.
To me …
The certain ones
- Sy Berger
- Jim Beckett
- Jefferson Burdick


And,
Enos Goudey - Most of the 30's sets were from Boston area gum companies, and nearly all of those had some connection to Goudey.

Lionel Carter


The maybes
- David Hall
- Richard McWilliam
- Mike Berkus
- Larry Fritsch


And

Renata Galasso
Michael Aronstein
Michael Schechter
Andrew Peck

Plus maybe a few hundred other people...…..

I don't think athletes belong. Yes, they're important because the hobby is mostly about promotional items they're on, but few had any real involvement besides posing for a photo.

And the no list
- Pierre Omidyar
- Mr Mint
- Don West

They were all involved, although Omidyar probably didn't plan on being involved - just ended up in a decent place.
But It's debatable whether their influence was positive or not.


And the "you must be kidding" list

- Bill Mastro
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:17 AM
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I'd add Fritsch, Michael Aronstein and Renata Galasso to the list on nominees. I think all merit consideration.



Alan Rosen treated me like dirt in my limited dealings with him. But he was influential.
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Old 11-20-2018, 09:24 AM
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1) Bob Lemke - primary contributor to the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards; custom baseball cards, hobby legend
2) Jefferson Burdick - cataloguer

possibly also Lew Lipset (although there are mixed feelings about his demeanor) and Michael Aronstein (aka TCMA) and Larry Fritsch

And I agree, no athletes should make the list, despite their importance.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:28 AM
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Yeah, the term "favorable" is going to vary greatly between individuals in this exercise.
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Old 11-20-2018, 09:29 AM
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Default Lionel Carter....

is a slam dunk. Players have no business on this "mountain".

Mr. Carter is an icon.

Peace, Mike
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Looks like the criteria is very skewed towards people who did stuff more recently. That's a bit limiting.
To me …
The certain ones
- Sy Berger
- Jim Beckett
- Jefferson Burdick


And,
Enos Goudey - Most of the 30's sets were from Boston area gum companies, and nearly all of those had some connection to Goudey.
This would be my exact list.
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:49 AM
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Some wonderful nominations we hadn't gotten yet, and some that we'd received previously but will give more credence to given their support here. Please keep them coming!

If Leon allows, when we finalize nominations, I will post a link to the poll for voting.
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Old 11-20-2018, 09:55 AM
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Barry Halper?
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
1) Bob Lemke - primary contributor to the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards; custom baseball cards, hobby legend
2) Jefferson Burdick - cataloguer

possibly also Lew Lipset (although there are mixed feelings about his demeanor) and Michael Aronstein (aka TCMA) and Larry Fritsch

And I agree, no athletes should make the list, despite their importance.
Bob Lemke...how could I forget to mention him? He was a prince and a tireless contributor to many projects. He was the anti-Mr Mint
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:18 AM
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Frank Nagy should be in consideration as well.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commishbob View Post
Bob Lemke...how could I forget to mention him? He was a prince and a tireless contributor to many projects. He was the anti-Mr Mint
Actually Bob and Mr. Mint did quite a lot of communications. He was not the anti Mr. Mint

Rich
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:45 AM
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We should make a ballot (poll) and post it. The Net54 Collector's HOF. Inaugural class of 4, then voting every January for 1 inductee.
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polakoff View Post
Some wonderful nominations we hadn't gotten yet, and some that we'd received previously but will give more credence to given their support here. Please keep them coming!

If Leon allows, when we finalize nominations, I will post a link to the poll for voting.
I agree about nominations and have no issue with any of this.The history of the hobby is an enjoyable subject.
It reminds me of, about 40 yrs ago, when I volunteered at the Houston Zoo reptile department. It was a great department back then (don't know anything about today). One main reason it was great is that the curator of the museum was a herpetologist. Go figure.
To me, The first 3 hobbyists (already mentioned) as shoe ins are Burdick, Berger and Beckett.
And I would vote to make it the Mt. Rushmore of the top 5. (if there were a vote.) That way more can be on it.

ps...I like Conor's idea right above here too.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:21 AM
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I like a HOF idea but, if you could, please wait until after January 7th so as to not take the wind out of the sails of this project!

I agree that the 3 B's are on my list. The other person involved is on the fence about Burdick (we have had many a fight about this) but Berger and Beckett seem to be absolute certainties. I do think Burdick will pull it out, and then the 4th spot is anyone's guess. We'll see!

The plan is to accept nominations through December 3rd. Next Monday there will be a blog post introducing the idea formally to the masses. On December 3rd we will have a culled list of nominees (knowing that, even though there are many nominees, not everyone can make the final list). That final list will be made into a poll with voting open for 4 weeks and closing on December 31st. On January 7th the Mount Rushmore will be formally announced.

Per Leon's blessing above I will post links when applicable in order to direct folks to the voting.

During the voting I also plan on running several blog posts featuring debate and discussion, so if you feel passionately for (or against) a certain nominee, feel free to elaborate, and I will contact you for permission to include it in a post.

Thanks everyone -- keep 'em coming!
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:41 AM
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Jacob Warren Bowman
Sy Berger
Jefferson Burdick
James Beckett
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:47 AM
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Ted Z for T206 (and probably lots of other stuff). Love reading his posts.
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:49 AM
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Burdick
Berger
Lemke
Lifson
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:55 AM
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Some of the names on the original list are an abomination
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:58 PM
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Nice to see that what my dad, Mike Aronstein was able to achieve during his time in the hobby still resonates. Thank you to the guys who have already mentioned his name here in this thread.

You can listen to Keith Olbermann speak fondly of my dad during his speech at the inaugural meeting of the SABR Baseball Card Committee at the link below. Some stories about a quarter of the way through, then at the end during the Q&A:

https://sabr.app.box.com/s/kxgpod56h...b882u4npvipmao
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:06 PM
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Jefferson Burdick
Lew Lipset
Wharton Tigre
Buck Barker

Beckett and the auctioneers don’t belong on the same level as these people.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:14 PM
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Bob Lemke.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:14 PM
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I think there should be a greater emphasis on hobby pioneers like Burdick and Barker, who were involved purely for the knowledge and the love of collecting, than for some of the people who got into the business solely to make money. Maybe the latter group made some important contributions to the industry, but they don't seem Rushmore-worthy to me.

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Old 11-20-2018, 01:18 PM
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If he hasn't been mentioned, David Hall. Like him or hate him, PSA has revolutionized collecting for a large percentage of the hobby. PS I see he was listed, so I agree with that choice.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:25 PM
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While I don't think that he belongs on that list, Dmitri Young is a player-collector who does tick a lot of the boxes.

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...league-players

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...gs-huge-money/
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:35 PM
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Lionel Carter for sure.
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  #34  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:42 PM
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:47 PM
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I think I ordered sets in the 1950's from a mail order dealer called : Woody Gelman ???
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orioles70 View Post
Gotta have the industry "B's" on there...Burdick for his cataloging, Berger for his innovation of products and Beckett for making collecting a popular hobby to the masses.

The 4th one is a little tougher...am torn between Mantle who was such a hero to so many and a hobby ambassador to early card shows drawing people in to rediscover their youth...and Fritsch who made those cards of our youth readily available by mail via his catalogs long before card shows were popular....toss a coin or have 5 on the mountain.



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I agree with the 3 Bs. Woody Gelman would be my #4, the first real mail order dealer long before Fritsch. I can't believe no mentions until page 4.

Mickey Mantle who was a jerk to collectors at card shows for years? No way. I would put him with Mastro and Mr. Mint in the group the have no business on a Mount Rushmore of the hobby.

Last edited by rats60; 11-20-2018 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:21 PM
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How about Dennis Purdy who. through his magazine VCBC, tried to point out some of the bad actors in the hobby? Anybody remember his articles about the slimy Alan Hager?
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
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How about Dennis Purdy who. through his magazine VCBC, tried to point out some of the bad actors in the hobby? Anybody remember his articles about the slimy Alan Hager?
His article on Dan Desmond and card alteration was priceless and profoundly disturbing.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:30 PM
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Default could only name two

as I'm pretty particular about whose image I would put on a rock that was interesting enough just as a rock.....

J Burdick
E W Tigre
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:30 PM
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Default "Mt Rushmore"

Reading through all these posts here, what is certainly apparent to me is that we need more than "Mt Rushmore",
with respect to contenders which have enriched this hobby.
I could think of at least a dozen (or more) worthy candidates, whose images should be sculptured on a mountain.
This then begs the next question....which mountain ?

I would recommend the "mile-high" mountain in northern Maine, Mt. Katahdin. It rises 5267 feet above sea level.

It's tree line ends at approx. 3000 feet. The rest of this mountain is sheer rock. So, we can carve out a number of
"hobby heroes" on it.


TED Z

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  #41  
Old 11-20-2018, 04:16 PM
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I would agree that no players should be on the list.

There may be a demand for their cards because they were players, but there is also demand every year for that one weird card that gets out and causes a frenzy of people who think it will remain hot in five years.

Can't see putting Billy "#>˘% Face" Ripkin on any list just because his card was hot at one time. If you can't do one, you shouldn't do any.
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Old 11-20-2018, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
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I would agree that no players should be on the list.

There may be a demand for their cards because they were players, but there is also demand every year for that one weird card that gets out and causes a frenzy of people who think it will remain hot in five years.

Can't see putting Billy "#>˘% Face" Ripkin on any list just because his card was hot at one time. If you can't do one, you shouldn't do any.
Mr McCollum you are wrong, the Bill Ripken F Face card should be on every list. Can you even consider yourself a baseball card collector without owning a copy?
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  #43  
Old 11-20-2018, 04:35 PM
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Default John D. Wagner

Burdick and Carter for sure. And I would recommend considering John D. Wagner, a pioneer of baseball card collecting, as well as through the mail autograph-on-card (including T206s!) seeking:

Originally posted by Leon: "The John D Wagner Hobby Letters - 1930s on..."
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=207944

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Old 11-20-2018, 04:48 PM
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Default Goodwin Goldfaden

Ted Koch was a person I learned a lot from and he said that he used to buy things from Goodie Goldfaden way back when. So as a person who used to sell by mail order, I guess he could be nominated.

David
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1880nonsports View Post
as I'm pretty particular about whose image I would put on a rock that was interesting enough just as a rock.....

J Burdick
E W Tigre
Henry— I agree that those are the top two by far.
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:35 PM
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Not Rushmore, but definitely HOF Dick Perez
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:40 PM
nickedson nickedson is offline
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Default Hobby Publishing Icons

I've always admired the guys who published these hobby publications - John Stommen founder of SCD; Dan Dischley, The Trader Speaks and Frank and Vivian Barning, Baseball Hobby News -not to mention several others.
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:13 PM
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Default Learned alot from:

I remember learning a lot about the hobby in the mid 90s from:

Barry Sloate- The East Coast Guru!

Mark Macrae- The West Coast Guru!
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:20 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Default Well

Definitely agree - no athletes on the list and Burdick, Berger and Beckett are shoe ins - #4 is super tough - there have been so many great nominees mentioned here I don't know how to pick 1!

Last edited by hcv123; 11-20-2018 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
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Mark Macrae- The West Coast Guru!
I agree wholeheartedly. I have never personally known anyone in the hobby with more knowledge and genuine joy and willingness to share it.
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