E91 scans matched up with scans of cards from other sets

[brianp-beme]

After years of procrastination (scanning and tracking down images just seemed so painful) I have decided to re-post this article. I have not revised anything in it, which I probably should have, but have scanned (or borrowed from the internet) comparison cards for each of the E91A subjects so the collector can visually judge for themselves if what I claim in the article makes sense to them. Since writing the article I found a good match for Plank (E95), found an exact photo match for Shay on the internet, and have determined that Devlin is actually a pretty decent representation based on the comparison cards. I even threw in some T206 cards just to make more people interested, and a few non-exact matches even when I have the exact match.

Sorry about varying size and quality of the scans, as well as the uneven printing on the article...curse my printer!

Brian

[brianp-beme]

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[brianp-beme]

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[brianp-beme]

These are the ones that I do not have a photo match, but I believe are accurate representations of the player's face. The Chance and Overall E91 cards are profile shots, so I do not have a very good match, although I think the Overall seems to share facial traits. Long ago I have actually seen the exact action photo of Reulbach that was used, and on this card they duplicated the body. The Chance...well, what can you do.

Brian

[Leon]

Great info, Brian. The A series has always held the charm....

.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

Great info, Brian. The A series has always held the charm.....

Don't forget about the 16 cards in the B series that are repeats (with same player designation on front) of the A series.

Brian

[Il Padrino]

I'd love to have another Matty.

Beautiful set; loads of variation and incredible color.

[edjs]

Not a set I collect, but this is some neat work, Brian. Cool to see that they are not as generic as once thought.

[Andrew1975]

Very interesting. I didn't know that so many of the images actually look like the player they are supposed to represent. The Plank, Waddell, Bresnahan, Murphy, Donlin, Evers and Collins are particularly obvious. As a (mainly) Red Sox collector, my only examples are from the C series. As these are the reused images, not my favorite set, but still not bad looking cards. Thanks for the info.

IMG_6889.jpgIMG_6891.jpgIMG_6890.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brianp-beme]

I scanned so many cards and pilfered way too many internet images to let this thread die...so I disguised the ever unpopular E91 focus in the title.

Brian

[clydepepper]

I have never been a fan of the E91 cards.

To be honest, however, after initially being so turned off by the anonymity of the players' faces, your thread has forced me to take a second look.

I still am not a fan, but my blanket contempt for the set is broken up slightly when I see cards like the Waddell...I still won't buy one though, they're just not quite as bad as I had assumed they were.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

-

[trdcrdkid]

+1 for the Nails reference in the title.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Awesome work Brian. I always thought the A series actually did look like the players that were named on the cards and the B and C series were the generic sets that just use the same images. But seeing the other cards posted next to them just makes the A series cards that much cooler imo.

Thanks for posting this.

AndyH

[brianp-beme]

Thanks Andy, Raymond, Daniel, Ed and Andrew for posting your thoughts about E91...these cards certainly have been misunderstood for a long time. And I always like to remind folks that almost half (sixteen) of the 'B' series cards are just as valid as the 'A' series that I illustrated with the scans, as these 16 cards are duplicated in the B series with the same image AND player designation as seen in the A series.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

My final tricky re-titling has occurred to squeeze out a few more views. My apologies to all who already suffered E91 pains on previous visits.

Brian

[benge610]

I just now viewed this thread.
Masterful, passionate work Brian.
if I was Opie Taylor right now; would wanna get the red paint and become blood brothers.
Nicely done and oh, so helpful; to foster interest in an underappreciated set.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by benge610

I just now viewed this thread.
Masterful, passionate work Brian.
if I was Opie Taylor right now; would wanna get the red paint and become blood brothers.
Nicely done and oh, so helpful; to foster interest in an underappreciated set.

+1. And these are super tough in anything over EX condition.....

.

[benge610]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

These are the ones that I do not have a photo match, but I believe are accurate representations of the player's face. The Chance and Overall E91 cards are profile shots, so I do not have a very good match, although I think the Overall seems to share facial traits. Long ago I have actually seen the exact action photo of Reulbach that was used, and on this card they duplicated the body. The Chance...well, what can you do.

Brian

As I put the finishing touches on the E91 file, for my son (Hobby/Business partner); has anyone come across any more pic comps for Chance? I was just gonna let it go but this group is definitely the place to ask the question.
Thank you in advance. Thank you Brian and all; you sure make me look good to the kid, lol.

[Fred]

Congratulations Brian,

This is the first time I've ever looked at the E91 cards as anything else but poor caricatures of the players.

I'm still not interested in the set, but at least now I am beginning to have a little more acceptance of the cards.

Edited to add that I didn't realize that this was initially posted in 2017. It was worth bringing it back for a second look, because I missed it the first time around.

[benge610]

Originally Posted by Fred

Congratulations Brian,

This is the first time I've ever looked at the E91 cards as anything else but poor caricatures of the players.

I'm still not interested in the set, but at least now I am beginning to have a little more acceptance of the cards.

Edited to add that I didn't realize that this was initially posted in 2017. It was worth bringing it back for a second look, because I missed it the first time around.

It is still alive Fred; still some unsolved questions, pics for comparison, etc. I just posted again (above) on Chance; it musta brought the thread out of the mothballs, lol.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Fred

Congratulations Brian,

This is the first time I've ever looked at the E91 cards as anything else but poor caricatures of the players.

I'm still not interested in the set, but at least now I am beginning to have a little more acceptance of the cards.

Edited to add that I didn't realize that this was initially posted in 2017. It was worth bringing it back for a second look, because I missed it the first time around.

Thanks Fred, and thanks again Ben. I believe I originally left off E91 from the thread title (and stuck T206 in there) because I knew that most collectors would glaze their eyes right past it at the mere sight of 'E91'. The cards are not my favorite, but they deserve to be viewed without that tough to shake 'generic' label...almost half of the 99 cards are not!

Brian

[benge610]

yep, .... what he said.

[brianp-beme]

I had a request from another member if I could provide info on the 33 designs in the E91A, and how they relate to the E91B and E91C sets. So I have created the list below (which was basically pulled from the article on the set in Lew Lipsets' great The Encylopedia of Baseball Cards book). The '(A)' in the below list refers to the player and designation as seen in the E91A set, the '(B)' going across on the same line is the same design as seen in E91B set, and the '(C)' refers to the same design as seen in the E91C set.

The * on the Murphy E91B entry below is to point out (which in turn was originally pointed out to me by Ben G) that although the designation for Murphy from the E91A set was repeated in the E91B set, the makers decided to utilize the artwork associated with Seybold in the E91A set for Murphy in the E91B set, and made Eddie Collins the player in E91B associated with the E91A artwork design for Murphy. It wouldn't be a vintage baseball card set without at least one curveball thrown.

Brian


(A) Davis - A's .... (B) Davis - A's .... (C) Donohue - Senators

(A) Murphy - A's .... (B) E. Collins - A's .... (C) Delehanty - Senators

(A) J. Collins - A's .... (B) Baker - A's .... (C) Conroy - Senators

(A) Nichols - A's .... (B) Barry - A's .... (C) McBride - Senators

(A) Seybold - A's .... (B) Murphy - A's* .... (C) Unglaub - Senators

(A) Oldring - A's .... (B) Ganley - A's .... (C) Milan - Senators

(A) Hartsel - A's .... (B) Hartsel - A's .... (C) Browne - Senators

(A) Schrenckengost - A's .... (B) Thomas - A's .... (C) Street - Senators

(A) Waddell - A's .... (B) Krause - A's .... (C) Johnson - Senators

(A) Bender - A's .... (B) Bender - A's .... (C) Groom - Senators

(A) Plank - A's .... (B) Plank - A's .... (C) Hughes - Senators


(A) Tenney - Giants .... (B) Tenney - Giants .... (C) Stahl - Red Sox

(A) Shay - Giants .... (B) Doyle - Giants .... (C) McConnell - Red Sox

(A) Devlin - Giants .... (B) Devlin - Giants .... (C) Lord - Red Sox

(A) Bridwell - Giants .... (B) Bridwell - Giants .... (C) Wagner - Red Sox

(A) McGraw - Giants .... (B) McGraw - Giants .... (C) Hooper - Red Sox

(A) Donlin - Giants .... (B) Donlin - Giants .... (C) Speaker - Red Sox

(A) Seymour - Giants .... (B) Seymour - Giants .... (C) Niles - Red Sox

(A) Bresnahan - Giants .... (B) Meyers - Giants .... (C) Donahue - Red Sox

(A) Taylor - Giants .... (B) Murray - Giants .... (C) Karger - Red Sox

(A) McGinnity - Giants .... (B) Marquard - Giants .... (C) Wood - Red Sox

(A) Mathewson - Giants .... (B) Mathewson - Giants .... (C) Chech - Red Sox


(A) Chance - Cubs .... (B) Chance - Cubs .... (C) Storke - Pirates

(A) Evers - Cubs .... (B) Evers - Cubs .... (C) Miller - Pirates

(A) Steinfeldt - Cubs .... (B) Steinfeldt - Cubs .... (C) Barbeau - Pirates

(A) Tinker - Cubs .... (B) Tinker - Cubs .... (C) Wagner - Pirates

(A) Schulte - Cubs .... (B) Schulte - Cubs .... (C) Wilson - Pirates

(A) Slagle - Cubs .... (B) Hoffman - Cubs .... (C) Leach - Pirates

(A) Sheckard - Cubs .... (B) Sheckard - Cubs .... (C) Clarke - Pirates

(A) Kling - Cubs .... (B) Archer - Cubs .... (C) Gibson - Pirates

(A) Reulbach - Cubs .... (B) Reulbach - Cubs .... (C) Phillipi - Pirates

(A) Brown - Cubs .... (B) Brown - Cubs .... (C) Willis - Pirates

(A) Overall - Cubs .... (B) Overall - Cubs .... (C) Leever - Pirates

[nolemmings]

Thanks Brian. FWIW, I would point out that E91-C was most likely issued in 1909 and not 1910 as is commonly believed. There is also a sort of anomaly in E91-C that I don't recall having been discussed before-- the Red Sox checklist includes both Charley Chech and Ed Karger, who were never teammates and in fact were traded for each other in July 1909. It seems strange that Chech was not replaced by Frank Arellanes or Eddie Cicotte, either of whom was more prominent on the Sox pitching staff. I mean it's not like they were in need of a proper depiction for those two players, since they already were re-using the images of the E91-A Giants.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Thanks Brian. FWIW, I would point out that E91-C was most likely issued in 1909 and not 1910 as is commonly believed. There is also a sort of anomaly in E91-C that I don't recall having been discussed before-- the Red Sox checklist includes both Charley Chech and Ed Karger, who were never teammates and in fact were traded for each other in July 1909. It seems strange that Chech was not replaced by Frank Arellanes or Eddie Cicotte, either of whom was more prominent on the Sox pitching staff. I mean it's not like they were in need of a proper depiction for those two players, since they already were re-using the images of the E91-A Giants.

Todd, that is interesting about the Chech and Karger in the E91C set...one would think that the trade of Chech away from the Red Sox would have triggered his ouster from the set, since the Red Sox's acquisition of Karger got Karger included (sometime after the July 26th trade).

Brian

[benge610]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I had a request from another member if I could provide info on the 33 designs in the E91A, and how they relate to the E91B and E91C sets. So I have created the list below (which was basically pulled from the article on the set in Lew Lipsets' great The Encylopedia of Baseball Cards book). The '(A)' in the below list refers to the player and designation as seen in the E91A set, the '(B)' going across on the same line is the same design as seen in E91B set, and the '(C)' refers to the same design as seen in the E91C set.

The * on the Murphy E91B entry below is to point out (which in turn was originally pointed out to me by Ben G) that although the designation for Murphy from the E91A set was repeated in the E91B set, the makers decided to utilize the artwork associated with Seybold in the E91A set for Murphy in the E91B set, and made Eddie Collins the player in E91B associated with the E91A artwork design for Murphy. It wouldn't be a vintage baseball card set without at least one curveball thrown.

Brian

Thank you Brian for generating this finished document; it looks so much better than my marked up list, kinda made from scratch.
Many thanks!
Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[benge610]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Thanks Brian. FWIW, I would point out that E91-C was most likely issued in 1909 and not 1910 as is commonly believed. There is also a sort of anomaly in E91-C that I don't recall having been discussed before-- the Red Sox checklist includes both Charley Chech and Ed Karger, who were never teammates and in fact were traded for each other in July 1909. It seems strange that Chech was not replaced by Frank Arellanes or Eddie Cicotte, either of whom was more prominent on the Sox pitching staff. I mean it's not like they were in need of a proper depiction for those two players, since they already were re-using the images of the E91-A Giants.

Good stuff Todd.
Thanks for sharing with the class.
Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[benge610]

To your, "E91 Murphy" point;
the first image, was Seibold; from the A set.
the second image was Murphy from the A set, now E. Collins.
the third image was actually Murphy from the A set.

Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[jamest206]

What can I say, this is an impressive post!!!

[BioCRN]

E91-A Kling seems to be based on Carl Horner photo also seen on a 1902 Sporting Life cabinet, 1906 Fan Craze, and T206 (amongst others).

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

E91-A Kling seems to be based on Carl Horner photo also seen on a 1902 Sporting Life cabinet, 1906 Fan Craze, and T206 (amongst others).

Horner was the photo source seen in many cards in the early 1900's sets. Here is that E91A Kling with a T206 Kling for comparison...to me it is evident that the facial image is drawn from the same source as was the T206.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by jamest206

What can I say, this is an impressive post!!!

Thanks...kind of a pet project of mine. Shortly I will post images of a few examples of the same design as seen in sets A, B, and C. I will show both instances; where the designation remained the same in the E91B, and when it changed in E91B.

Brian

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Horner was the photo source seen in many cards in the early 1900's sets. Here is that E91A Kling with a T206 Kling for comparison...to me it is evident that the facial image is drawn from the same source as was the T206.

Brian

Yeah, you can see the full image in the 1902 Sporting Life (W600), a cropped version in the 1906 Fan Craze, and the touched-up E91-A (body drawn) and T206 (Cubs on jersey). [Not my images, though I do own a Fan Craze and T206]

[brianp-beme]

The first two scans (of nine cards each) show examples of the same design through the E91A, B, and C sets, from left to right, respectively. The A and B examples of these cards that share the same player designation on the front are exactly the same, just have different set checklists on the back.

The second group of two scans show examples of the same design where the player designation was changed in both the E91B and E91C sets.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Yeah, you can see the full image in the 1902 Sporting Life (W600), a cropped version in the 1906 Fan Craze, and the touched-up E91-A (body drawn) and T206 (Cubs on jersey). [Not my images, though I do own a Fan Craze and T206]

Nice...thanks for sharing all those card images!

Brian