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  #581  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:38 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *



Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set


Since no one has responded to the question.... "Do the T215-1 RED CROSS cards belong in the T206 set ?"..... my answer is YES, and NO !

YES for the cards printed and issued circa Spring/Summer 1910....and NO for the cards printed and issued circa Spring 1912.

In the Spring/Summer of 1910, ALC was printing sheets of 350 Series (T206) cards. Furthermore, the printing of 1910 COUPON (T213-1) and RED CROSS (1st series) cards
coincided with this timeline in the printing of the various T-brands of the T206 set.

My initial analysis of the 1st series of T215-1 cards indicates that at least 23 subjects were derived from this 350 Series printing of T206's. These 23 are...…

Bender (trees)
Byrne (St Louis)
Eddie Collins (A's)
Cree
Doolan
Dubuc
Fromme
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Kelley
Krause
Marquard (portrait)
McGinnity
Miller
Paskert
Purtell
Quinn
Speaker
Street (portrait)
Warhop
Wilson

Also from the 150/350 series, Mathewson (white cap) was included for a starting total of 24 subjects printed in the 1st series of T215-1 cards. Further research is continuing
in order to figure out how many more cards were in this 1st series.

Anyhow, let's get a meaningful discussion going here. It's amazing the BB card mysteries Net54 members have solved over the years when they share their theories.

So, let's hear your opinions regarding this subject ? ?





TED Z
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  #582  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:45 PM
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Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
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I am undecided as to whether t215-1 (and t213-1) should be considered t206s, but I am working on several back runs and fully feel i need the type 1 version of the cards to complete the back run. In fact, I would like to get all t213 and t215 versions (including pirate back), as well as t214, to do a true and complete back run. Doesn’t answer your question Ted, but maybe advances the topic a bit.
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  #583  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:52 PM
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rats60 rats60 is offline
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I would say no since we don't know the full list of who was printed in 1910 and who was 1912. It makes sense to me that both series of cards be grouped together as their own set.
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  #584  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I am undecided as to whether t215-1 (and t213-1) should be considered t206s, but I am working on several back runs and fully feel i need the type 1 version of the cards to complete the back run. In fact, I would like to get all t213 and t215 versions (including pirate back), as well as t214, to do a true and complete back run. Doesn’t answer your question Ted, but maybe advances the topic a bit.

Hi Ryan

Spoken like a true "white-bordered tobacco card collector"......good luck with your T-card runs.


I try for all of American Litho's printed front/back combos in my serious T-card runs.

Starting with my very 1st acquisition of the blue Chase (Willow Grove Show, March 1981)……….






. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .




.
Fac. #30..................Fac. #42 ................Fac. #42




.




A - B - C - C - D connection



Since 1981 (when I initially start my blue Chase run), I have never seen this T206 with a DRUM back. I have hope that eventually one will show up.







This run continues into the next post here...………


TED Z
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  #585  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default CONTINUATION from previous post.

Lucky for me that the blue Chase was NOT printed with the RED CROSS back




. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .







TED Z
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  #586  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:28 PM
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Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Lucky for me that the blue Chase was NOT printed with the RED CROSS back
I know exactly what you mean Ted. I've attempted three back runs, and all three are missing the RED CROSS back.

PS- Merkle throwing
Bresnahan batting
Street catching, also missing the Red Hindu
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  #587  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
I know exactly what you mean Ted. I've attempted three back runs, and all three are missing the RED CROSS back.

PS- Merkle throwing
Bresnahan batting
Street catching, also missing the Red Hindu

GOOD LUCK...finding the RED CROSS (T215-1) cards. You'll most likely find the red HINDU Street before
you will find any of those RED CROSS (T215-1) cards.

If I intend to run the entire white-bordered route, I start by "reverse engineering" the run....that is to start by acquiring the RED CROSS first,
then follow up with all the rest of the cards.

For example, that's how I began my Dots Miller run with this T215-1 card. Only nine backs needed in the T206 group, of which I still need the
BROAD LEAF 350, CAROLINA BRIGHTS and DRUM (although, DRUM has yet to be confirmed for Miller).





TED Z
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  #588  
Old 12-15-2018, 09:04 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *



Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set





Just a tidbit of Tobacco trivia...... P. Lorillard is the oldest tobacco products manufacturer in the U.S. ?


Listed here is a breakdown of the 96 subjects in the T215-1 set with respect to their series in the T206 set...………..

150/350 Series…...Summer/Fall 1909
Mathewson (white cap)

350-only Series…...Spring/Summer1910

Bender (trees)
Byrne (St Louis)
Eddie Collins (A's)
Cree
Doolan
Dubuc
Fromme
Hartsel
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Kelley
Krause
Lord
Marquard (portrait)
McGinnity
Matty McIntyre
Miller
Mowrey
Oakes
Paskert
Purtell
Quinn
Speaker
Street (portrait)
Warhop
Wilson


350/460 Series…...Fall/Winter 1910

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
L. Doyle (bat))
Elberfeld (fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap)
Harry McIntyre
Mullin(bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Pelty (vertical)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Frank Smith
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Jeff Sweeney
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove)


460-only Series…...Winter 1910/Spring 1911

Ball (Cleveland)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (batting)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
L. Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Herzog
Hummel
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers
Murray (portrait)
Oldring (bat)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



OK, given the above list and the trades which resulted in new teams in the subjects captions (see post #580), let's see who is the Net54 genius
that can logically figure out the 1st series T215-1 cards which were issued in 1910.

And, as a result we will identify which cards were issued in 1912.....besides these 15 whose team changed from their T206 counterpart...…

Byrne Pittsburgh
Harry Davis Cleveland
Donlin (bat) Pittsburg
Griffith (bat) Washington
Hartsel Toledo
Herzog New York NL
Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL
Lord Chicago AL
Harry McIntyre Chicago NL
Matty McIntyre Chicago AL
Mowrey St Louis NL
Oakes St Louis NL
Frank Smith Cincinnati
Steinfeldt (bat) St. Louis NL
Cy Young (glove) Boston NL





TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 12-16-2018 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #589  
Old 12-16-2018, 06:18 AM
Sean's Avatar
Sean Sean is offline
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Hi Ted, isn't there a RED CROSS Bresnahan batting in the 350 Series?
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  #590  
Old 12-16-2018, 12:08 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Sean

The Bresnahan that you are referring to is found only in the T215-2 set. I have never seen a T215 Bresnahan (with bat) with a BROWN caption.

I always double-check my T215-1 data by referring to the PIRATE set of cards (which are a known quantity, and are essentially a mirror image
of the T215-1 cards).


.


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