34G Gehrig...third time around!?

[jason.1969]

Jason Schwartz here in case this post is seen as negative toward a seller.

As I'm in the market for a Gehrig, I can't help making note when this raw beauty comes up again and again and again (!) on eBay from the same seller.

Each time it has sold for what seems like a fair price but shortly after is reposted for sale as if the card had not already sold.

The second time around I queried the seller and received no response. Am asking again, so we'll see. There are certainly aspects of this that fit the characteristics of a scam, but I believe this to be a reputable seller and a legit card.

All I can think of is that buyers are discovering something about it. I'd speculate trimming or repairs, but the card continues to be guaranteed as unaltered.

Any theories?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131848327678

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[jb67]

Might want to check this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=battlefield

[JustinD]

Well I can tell you that the seller is battlefield and quick search of this site will tell you all you need to know.

Chances are the scan is not showing you the facts.

[JustinD]

lol, jb.

The battlefield siren went off.

[Eggoman]

I am NOT an expert in '34 Goudeys...that said, something looks "funny" with the reverse. The card appears to have previously been glued(?) or something...

WHY is it ungraded??? A card apparently THAT nice at THAT price point???

Spidey sense are tingling....

Good Luck!

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by jb67

Might want to check this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=battlefield

Oh wow! Thanks for the tip. Really disappointing though.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Eggoman

I am NOT an expert in '34 Goudeys...that said, something looks "funny" with the reverse. The card appears to have previously been glued(?) or something...

WHY is it ungraded??? A card apparently THAT nice at THAT price point???

Spidey sense are tingling....

Good Luck!

It most definitely has been soaked and has color loss or thinning in the print from the glue. It was likely a poor 10 or a 1 because of this and they broke it out to get a higher return.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Negative feedback rating Negative 21 65 155

Nuf ced probably.

[clydepepper]

Seller has 21 negatives this month alone...more than enough for me to shop elsewhere.

[scooter729]

Might want to read the negative feedback left for the seller here.

Safe to say - run, don't walk away!

[Stonepony]

Stay wayyyyyy clear. Alters scans

[gnaz01]

If you want a nice SGC or PSA "A" grade, go for it, just don't pay for an "8" and be disappointed when it doesn't happen.........

[JustinD]

Here's my 10, it has no thinning but the same light color loss on the reverse which gave it the grade.

I find the Goudeys to lose the green text very easily to soaking glue remnants.

[JustinD]

Second try -

[pokerplyr80]

Aside from altering scans this seller is well known for selling nice looking altered cards. That is why you see the same card relisted. Someone buys it, sends it into PSA for a grade, it comes back altered and is returned. The cycle then repeats itself until an unfortunate collector keeps it raw or forgets to send it in to be graded on time.

I bought one card from this seller and that is what happened in my case. As soon as I requested to return it, it was relisted. The next auction actually ended before I even mailed the card back as there was a delay getting the card back from PSA.

[jason.1969]

This is really depressing to read. Seriously!

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[SAllen2556]

How could anyone even consider buying a card from a seller with that kind of feedback? It's a fascinating thing to consider.

I WANT TO BELIEVE!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

How could anyone even consider buying a card from a seller with that kind of feedback? It's a fascinating thing to consider.

I WANT TO BELIEVE!

I made my one battlefield purchase before I was active on this board. The card looked so nice and I figured worst case scenario I would be out some shipping and grading fees. It certainly wasn't the most expensive lesson I've ever learned, but that was 50 bucks I will never see again.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The better question is who are all these thousands of folks leaving them positive feedback? Obviously their business model is to count on people who don't know much or don't scrutinize cards closely.

[jason.1969]

Darn. I feel like I'd better take a close look at my 34G Lefty Grove!

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[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The better question is who are all these thousands of folks leaving them positive feedback? Obviously their business model is to count on people who don't know much or don't scrutinize cards closely.

My guess is that the low value cards they sell are mostly legit, and these generate the positive feedback. They make their money off the high end altered cards, and use all the small transactions to build the feedback score creating the false perception of credibility. Part of the reason I fell for it was the high score.

[irv]

Just how bad do things need to get before E-Bay does something about these clowns?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

How could anyone even consider buying a card from a seller with that kind of feedback? It's a fascinating thing to consider.

I WANT TO BELIEVE!

It's done time and time again. They make money hand over fist doing this. That is why they do it. That is why they continue to do it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

My guess is that the low value cards they sell are mostly legit, and these generate the positive feedback. They make their money off the high end altered cards, and use all the small transactions to build the feedback score creating the false perception of credibility. Part of the reason I fell for it was the high score.

I would guess that by the number of people they fool on the high end, they are probably just selling crap across the board and counting on people not being very astute. Anyone looking at their feedback is going to see the large number of negatives too, not like a high positive score can hide that.

[Jeff1970Red]

I had purchased 30+ cards from this seller between Aug and Nov of last year. I sent my first submission to PSA in November after reading the threads. Unfortunately, a majority of the cards came back altered, trimmed or recolored and the few that came back with grades were dissapointing. I returned the altered cards I could with the help of PayPal's 180 day policy. I was stuck with a few altered cards that I received back from PSA after the PayPal deadline and I kept the graded cards. Unfortunately, this wasn't the only seller I had this experience with. I look at this as a lesson learned and have put the brakes on buying raw cards except from a few select/trusted sellers.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why guess? Look at their positive feedback. Plenty of relatively expensive cards in there.

Those are probably collectors who report feedback immediately after receiving the card before realizing it's been altered, or never send the card in to be graded. My assumption is based on my personal experience, and those of others who have posted on this board.

Has anyone purchased a higher end card from battlefield and been pleased with the grading results? I have yet to hear of one who has.

[egbeachley]

I purchased a bunch of non-sports cards in the Spring in 3 batches for between $2 - $30. Almost all were damaged but didn't show up in the scans. Didn't receive a response for returns so I left feedback on Batch #1.

16 negatives and 9 neutrals.

Seller rating went from 98.4% to 98.3%.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Eggoman

I am NOT an expert in '34 Goudeys...that said, something looks "funny" with the reverse. The card appears to have previously been glued(?) or something...

WHY is it ungraded??? A card apparently THAT nice at THAT price point???

Spidey sense are tingling....

Good Luck!

Lou is trimmed and who knows what else. Seller should be avoided at all costs. Amazing eBay permits this sh!t to go on. There are several sellers doing the same thing. Stick to graded you lower the chances as much as 50% of getting a bad card depending on which holder it is in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Those are probably collectors who report feedback immediately after receiving the card before realizing it's been altered, or never send the card in to be graded. My assumption is based on my personal experience, and those of others who have posted on this board.

Has anyone purchased a higher end card from battlefield and been pleased with the grading results? I have yet to hear of one who has.

You don't need to send in a card to be graded to know it's bad or overgraded.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You don't need to send in a card to be graded to know it's bad or overgraded.

You dont, but unfortunately the people who keep falling for this scam do. These are the people I believe are leaving the positive feedback for cards selling for a few hundred bucks or more.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

You dont, but unfortunately the people who keep falling for this scam do. These are the people I believe are leaving the positive feedback for cards selling for a few hundred bucks or more.

I think we agree on that. I think the place we disagree is whether they are puffing up their feedback with accurately graded and authentic lower end cards; my feeling is they are probably bad across the board and taking advantage of the fact that most people just aren't paying attention or don't know the difference.

[Jeff1970Red]

Examples

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think we agree on that. I think the place we disagree is whether they are puffing up their feedback with accurately graded and authentic lower end cards; my feeling is they are probably bad across the board and taking advantage of the fact that most people just aren't paying attention or don't know the difference.

If true the issue is even worse than I thought. And you're right the feedback score is hard to believe. It's sad that so many people don't realize they're getting cards that are lower quality than advertised, or altered. I think we can also both agree that this is a seller that should be avoided in all cases.

[TheNightmanCometh]

I'm just thankful I found this board before I bought anything from battlefield. Before I came here I was in awe of the '52s she had for sale and I was planning on buying a bunch from her. Thankfully, the great people on this board educated me on her scam.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If true the issue is even worse than I thought. And you're right the feedback score is hard to believe. It's sad that so many people don't realize they're getting cards that are lower quality than advertised, or altered. I think we can also both agree that this is a seller that should be avoided in all cases.

Absolutely.

[irv]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

I'm just thankful I found this board before I bought anything from battlefield. Before I came here I was in awe of the '52s she had for sale and I was planning on buying a bunch from her. Thankfully, the great people on this board educated me on her scam.

You and me both!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Sometimes it's people like this that make me accept the fact I'll never make it "big" in the hobby. Two reasons. One, I'm too ethical to do the shitty things needed to make 1000% profit on items. Two, big sellers like these are going to poison the hobby so badly that they eventually kill it for the reputable people.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by irv

Just how bad do things need to get before E-Bay does something about these clowns?

My major pet peeve is ebay sellers calling counterfeits reprints. I report dozens of these a week. Some sellers make it their entire business!

There are basically two different types of these listings. Topps cards which are mint but have OBVIOUSLY never had any authorized reprints, since, well, Topps would do it themselves (and does of course with sets like archives etc...) Online these cards look REALLY good, so I imagine you get a lot of unscrupulous people who buy them thinking they can then pass them off as the real thing.

The second type is artificially aged pre war cards that the seller lists as "I think it's a reprint so I'm selling it as such." These are more nefarious because dumb people gamble $100 on a $2000 card on the chance that the seller is "wrong."

I make it my mission to report this shit constantly, but it seems to have no impact. I have also contacted Topps encouraging them to send a cease and desist letter to ebay, as selling counterfeit vintage cards will eventually affect their present business. I even wrote an ebay guide showing the difference between a legit reprint and a counterfeit. Talking about CCC sets and Renata Galasso and the like. It was removed in 24 hours.

If we all reported crap sales we see maybe volume of reports would make an impact. Or we could all just sit around and bitch about how crooked things are...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Sometimes it's people like this that make me accept the fact I'll never make it "big" in the hobby. Two reasons. One, I'm too ethical to do the shitty things needed to make 1000% profit on items. Two, big sellers like these are going to poison the hobby so badly that they eventually kill it for the reputable people.

People have been selling overgraded and altered raw cards forever; at least since I started collecting again in the early 90s. SCD used to be full of ads from that generation of card doctors. It was rampant then. It hasn't killed the hobby, just made people who care more cautious.