shady alert: heritage "buy it now" feature questions...

[begsu1013]

was looking at the current auction and found a card that seemed like it was priced relatively civil.

was searching the previous auctions w/ bin feature.
i hit the buy it now.
made me log in to heritage via paypal.
confirmed that i'd be responsible for payment and entering into a contract to buy said card.
and then it gets weird...

it says the owner will get back to me w/i 72 hrs.

OK. i thought it was for sale. which is why i hit "buy it now".

and then this was the kicker:

it then told me that there was another offer in, although i hit a BIN , and asked me to submit a back up higher offer!!

how could there be another higher offer in. i hit the BIN!!!

what in the f@ck!?!?!!?

[nsaddict]

I have seen these auctions. Never hit one but assumed if you pay the BIN price card is yours.

wtf +1

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

was looking at the current auction and found a card that seemed like it was priced relatively civil.

was searching the previous auctions w/ bin feature.
i hit the buy it now.
made me log in to heritage via paypal.
confirmed that i'd be responsible for payment and entering into a contract to buy said card.
and then it gets weird...

it says the owner will get back to me w/i 72 hrs.

OK. i thought it was for sale. which is why i hit "buy it now".

and then this was the kicker:

it then told me that there was another offer in, although i hit a BIN , and asked me to submit a back up higher offer!!

how could there be another higher offer in. i hit the BIN!!!

what in the f@ck!?!?!!?

Don't see what you are confused/mad about. Seems like normal business practices over at Heritage.

[Stonepony]

That's worth a phone call for an explanation.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Don't see what you are confused/mad about. Seems like normal business practices over at Heritage.

touche!

and i certainly plan on calling, posted just so i could gather more ammo if this has happened to anyone else...

or perhaps if there was some "reasonable" explanation that i was simply overlooking.

[Peter_Spaeth]

At the BIN prices I am seeing on a quick look, just as well.

[CW]

Unless you're clicking a different button, it's not a "buy it now" like on eBay. It's more like a "make an offer" option. The seller might decline the offer or might not even be entertaining offers. It is simply a post auction feature that Heritage offers.

[begsu1013]

which is why i am confused and asking if there is another reasonable explanation before i called...

it had a "buy it now" for "x" price.

it wasn't "send an offer". it literally read "buy it now".

told me i was committing to the "BIN" price and entering into a contract.

how does "buy it now" mean anything else other than i am buying the card at the exact asking price?

short answer: it's heritage. but even then....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

which is why i am confused and asking if there is another reasonable explanation before i called...

it had a "buy it now" for "x" price.

it wasn't "send an offer". it literally read "buy it now".

told me i was committing to the "BIN" price and entering into a contract.

how does "buy it now" mean anything else other than i am buying the card at the exact asking price?

short answer: it's heritage. but even then....

Yeah it really does look like a BIN on the website. But hard to blame them for giving the seller an added layer of protection in case he sold the card already, or changed his mind, or the price went up, etc. Probably not like ebay where a seller would constantly monitor his listings.

[begsu1013]

i get that part. (i guess).

but the audacity to ask for more?

and then tell me a miraculous bid came in mere minutes after i hit the "bin"?

and why even call it a "bin"?

this sounds like a seinfield skit...

"and what's with the buy it now feature"

"youre not buying anything"

"and it's not now"

[Jobu]

They also have a "make an offer option" which I guess operates almost exactly like their "buy it now" option. You submit an offer and the seller decides if they want it or not (or they ignore it and leave you in limbo). If there was a higher previous offer it tells you that there is a minimum offer because you have to top the previous offer. I am curious to see what they tell you about the buy it now option and would like you to ask them how it differs from their make an offer option.

[midmo]

I've done the "buy now" thing with Heritage before. I was confused at first (wasn't sure if it went through or not). I also assumed it was immediate as opposed to the "make an offer" button, but it took a few hours before I got an email saying my offer was accepted. Naming it "Buy Now" is misleading for sure.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i get that part. (i guess).

but the audacity to ask for more?

and then tell me a miraculous bid came in mere minutes after i hit the "bin"?

and why even call it a "bin"?

this sounds like a seinfield skit...

"and what's with the buy it now feature"

"youre not buying anything"

"and it's not now"

Love it!!! Sounds like...

"Is there a 'SIN' in 'Sell It Now'?"

"And why is there no obligation on the 'Sell It Now'? It's really 'Sell It Whenever I Friggin' Feel Like It' (SIWIFFLI)."

This relationship is backwards, as only the buyer is obligated on the Sale. The tail is wagging the dog here, as usually the person with the money is the one in control.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Love it!!! Sounds like...

"Is there a 'SIN' in 'Sell It Now'?"

"And why is there no obligation on the 'Sell It Now'? It's really 'Sell It Whenever I Friggin' Feel Like It' (SIWIFFLI)."

This relationship is backwards, as only the buyer is obligated on the Sale. The tail is wagging the dog here, as usually the person with the money is the one in control.

well the power changed when you the new buyer didnt want to be the high bidder in the auction...it not like they didnt have a chance to buy it before..

i guess the button means 'attempt to buy it'....

[begsu1013]

a.l.t.s.h.b.s.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i get that part. (i guess).

but the audacity to ask for more?

and then tell me a miraculous bid came in mere minutes after i hit the "bin"?

and why even call it a "bin"?

this sounds like a seinfield skit...

"and what's with the buy it now feature"

"youre not buying anything"

"and it's not now"

It sounds to me like it's "a buy it now if nobody else is interested or a head-to-head auction if someone else is interested."

In other words, the seller puts the item out there at the lowest price they want for it. Buyer 1 sees it and hits the "BIN" button. The seller waits to respond and before he has to respond, Buyer 2 comes along and hits the "BIN" button. A message now goes out to both "buyers" that someone else is interested and asks for the maximum each buyer is willing to pay. Whoever is willing to pay the most gets the item at that higher price. I would assume if no interested buyer submits a higher price that it would go to the first "BIN" buyer at the "BIN" price. But in any case, I agree with you, it's not a BIN.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

It sounds to me like it's "a buy it now if nobody else is interested or a head-to-head auction if someone else is interested."

In other words, the seller puts the item out there at the lowest price they want for it. Buyer 1 sees it and hits the "BIN" button. The seller waits to respond and before he has to respond, Buyer 2 comes along and hits the "BIN" button. A message now goes out to both "buyers" that someone else is interested and asks for the maximum each buyer is willing to pay. Whoever is willing to pay the most gets the item at that higher price. I would assume if no interested buyer submits a higher price that it would go to the first "BIN" buyer at the "BIN" price. But in any case, I agree with you, it's not a BIN.

i believe the buyer is shown the amounts that were offered in the past as well. Thats better than outside heritage where theres always a local guy seemingly thats going to the house of the seller to make an offer if you dont close a deal with him or some other guy thats making an offer but they wont tell you the amount

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah it really does look like a BIN on the website. But hard to blame them for giving the seller an added layer of protection in case he sold the card already, or changed his mind, or the price went up, etc. Probably not like ebay where a seller would constantly monitor his listings.

I DO blame them for "adding a layer of protection." If it sells, it shows "sold." If the seller wants to up the price, the price gets upped. If the site shows it's for sale at a certain price, then that's the price it should sell for. It's not like Heritage has a crappy, 2002 website like Hunt's.

[Den*nis O*Brien]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i get that part. (i guess).

but the audacity to ask for more?

and then tell me a miraculous bid came in mere minutes after i hit the "bin"?

and why even call it a "bin"?

this sounds like a seinfield skit...

"and what's with the buy it now feature"

"youre not buying anything"

"and it's not now"

"The problem is you know how to TAKE the reservation BUT you don't know how to HOLD the reservation" sez Jerry. In light of recent hobby revelations it is astounding that a AH would engage in this type of behavior.

[Stonepony]

It's astounding an AH admits to the right to bid in its own auctions...and gets a pass from most of us.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

It's astounding an AH admits to the right to bid in its own auctions...and gets a pass from most of us.

+1000!!! I wonder how many who are hammering away at Goldin and others on the Mastro thread bid in last weekend's Heritage Platinum whatever??

[Mdmtx]

I didn't bid. On principal I would not buy a 100k card. And cause I don't have that kind of green. Lol

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

It's astounding an AH admits to the right to bid in its own auctions...and gets a pass from most of us.

kinda on the fence about this one actually...

it is allowable by law, but i wont bid on any of their auctions now knowing i'm at a 20%, sorry 19.5%, disadvantage right outta the gate.

i don't necessarily think bad of them because they are acting in accordance w/ state and local law even though it was "fine print" and probably the sole reason they are headquarted in tx. similar to golf and using the rules to your advantage. are you really gonna hit the ball off the actual cart path?

would, however, like to know who receives the actual 20% buyers premium...that's a very crucial and key component to the argument on this one.

firmly believe if heritage ends up winning it themselves, then it should have to be paid and it should go to the consigner.

wishful thinking, i know.

[jhs5120]

Virtually every large auction house allows employees to place bids in house lots. I know I can.

[CW]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

which is why i am confused and asking if there is another reasonable explanation before i called...

it had a "buy it now" for "x" price.

it wasn't "send an offer". it literally read "buy it now".

told me i was committing to the "BIN" price and entering into a contract.

how does "buy it now" mean anything else other than i am buying the card at the exact asking price?

short answer: it's heritage. but even then....

Ah, ok, must be something completely different than the make an offer option. Will be curious to hear the result of all this.

[begsu1013]

called placed today.

awaiting a returned call, as even the individual i talked to seemed very confused, yet extremely interested as to wtf as well.

could see all of my info and that the exact buy it now was hit as advertised.

will definitely keep this updated....

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

It's astounding an AH admits to the right to bid in its own auctions...and gets a pass from most of us.

I wonder how many of these Heritage BINs and Make-an-Offers are actually owned by Heritage or its employees.
Val Kehl

[begsu1013]

and as of today,

still no response (phone or email) from heritage about the "bin" card that I committed to.

[begsu1013]

for what it's worth...

did get a call back from an individual who headed the department which is in charge of these "buy it now" listings.

basically said the prices listed by owners are not really monitored or kept up w/ internally and that the seller is in no way obligated to honor the "bin" price they have set .

and while the card was listed for months, he agreed that this was a very strange occurrence w/ another bid coming in a mere 3 minutes after i hit the buy it now*

that he has never seen anything like that transpire since he has been there.

and that the terminology and most of the process needs to be reexamined and will most likely be changed in the near future.

*and for the record, he did indicate that the card did, indeed, sell to another client for $100 more than what the buy it now was listed for.


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considering the other consignment snafu / mexico operation crap....heritage never had this card either. what is to stop these guys from purchasing a high end card from heritage, get it shipped to 'feiters, duplicate the holder/flip, relist the fake w/ the "bin" feature, send whoever the fake card. they'd get to register it no problem and probably would never think twice...counterfeiters simply wait a lil while and then sell off the real card...

basically selling or even listing an item that isn't in your possession simply leaves too much on the table to go wrong, imo.

if heritage is reading and i think they are, i would reexamine this process as well...

[glchen]

I think you have to be the original buyer of the card from a Heritage auction in order to get it listed as a BIN/BO on their site. Therefore, the likelihood of counterfeits, etc, is very low. Heritage has all of the seller's info, so if the item were found to be an issue, it's too easy for it to be traced to you.

[begsu1013]

exactly what i am saying though...

who's to stop the counterfeiters from buying a card from heritage.

counterfeiting it. relisting the counterfeit w/ heritage thru the bin program...

(since they do not require that the card be in house, simply use previous scans)

selling it. the guy can add the fake one to his set, bc no one else should be claiming the cert.

and then reselling the good card a few months later.

guy wont know he was duped on the relisted heritage card until the guy that buys the real card tries to add it.

that's months down the road and the guy is a ghost again.

granted, it's a one and done scenario, but could very easily be attempted and would probably go over fairly easily considering it seems to be pretty lax at listing a "bin" over there and there's previous history...

"of course, he's still got the card, he just bought it from us"

not saying it's likely...

but i just think the idea of listing something w/o having the card in hand, in just about any capacity is opening up a can of unnecessary worms for all involved.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

for what it's worth...

did get a call back from an individual who headed the department which is in charge of these "buy it now" listings.

basically said the prices listed by owners are not really monitored or kept up w/ internally and that the seller is in no way obligated to honor the "bin" price they have set .

and while the card was listed for months, he agreed that this was a very strange occurrence w/ another bid coming in a mere 3 minutes after i hit the buy it now*

that he has never seen anything like that transpire since he has been there.

and that the terminology and most of the process needs to be reexamined and will most likely be changed in the near future.

*and for the record, he did indicate that the card did, indeed, sell to another client for $100 more than what the buy it now was listed for.


----------------------------------------------------------------

considering the other consignment snafu / mexico operation crap....heritage never had this card either. what is to stop these guys from purchasing a high end card from heritage, get it shipped to 'feiters, duplicate the holder/flip, relist the fake w/ the "bin" feature, send whoever the fake card. they'd get to register it no problem and probably would never think twice...counterfeiters simply wait a lil while and then sell off the real card...

basically selling or even listing an item that isn't in your possession simply leaves too much on the table to go wrong, imo.

if heritage is reading and i think they are, i would reexamine this process as well...

So the prices on their website are "not monitored." No obligation to honor a BIN. Really? So if the BIN, which is evidently not an offer to actually sell a card for the price listed, doesn't meet some predeterimined other number that no one knows about, the card doesn't sell. WTF is that? I guess transparency isn't much of an issue. I'm out.

[RichardSimon]

At this point in time in this hobby you can count the ethical auction houses on two or three fingers,and maybe that is an optimistic number.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

At this point in time in this hobby you can count the ethical auction houses on two or three fingers,and maybe that is an optimistic number.

I would say very optimistic. I recently bought my first item from a auction house and I 100% believe they changed the item description after the auction closed. When I bought the item it was described as game used. Now the listing says nothing about game used and it is described as professional model.

I am waiting for their next auction so I can take before and after shots of their listings for solid proof or I would out the a$$holes now. I talked to another member who was very unhappy with a purchase from the same place and he thinks the same happened to him.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would say very optimistic. I recently bought my first item from a auction house and I 100% believe they changed the item description after the auction closed. When I bought the item it was described as game used. Now the listing says nothing about game used and it is described as professional model.

I am waiting for their next auction so I can take before and after shots of their listings for solid proof or I would out the a$$holes now. I talked to another member who was very unhappy with a purchase from the same place and he thinks the same happened to him.

man you guys have it rough buying cards these days. you win a card it might not be the same card described. you get it for too low the seller might not ship. you get it for too high and the card might've been shilled. you buy a high grade card and it could be an el chapo special etc etc

back in my day you buy a raw card from dealer described as NRMT and you receive a trimmed EX card...but at least you know there was no funny business.

[begsu1013]

yeah, but making sure i don't get f'd over/outing a potential fraudster is all part of the fun of it as well...