Jefferson Burdick letters- June 30, 1936 and on.....

[Leon]

Here is the oldest letter from the recent hoard of hundreds of documents from John Wagner's collection of hobby periodicals and ephemera. There are hundreds (maybe close to a thousand) total items to go through. I can't say I have ever been quite as excited as I am going through this collection. It is unbelievable. Also, this particular letter and envelope is the only one that is in such poor condition. It looks like it was literally pulled from a trash fire.....but it's the oldest...(the rest will be easier to read)

[Publius]

I'll chime in, that is amazing, and such history!

[barrysloate]

It's amazing to see that people bought, sold, and traded memorabilia during the Depression. It had to be a very elite group who interacted with one another back then. Great stuff Leon! Keep 'em coming.

[gnaz01]

I was the underbidder on several of these lots. For reference, here is a photo of John D. Wagner:

[1880nonsports]

thanks for sharing. I eat this stuff up :-)
I remember when a couple of dealers would send me a grouping of stuff for me to decide on - keep what I liked - return the rest - AND I might be allowed to contribute to the discussion of pricing. Not aware that it happens too often anymore.
Cards were much less of a commodity back in the "golden age" of the late 30's-50's (acc, wti) the dollar amounts that would be quoted at least initially, allowed for "an exchange point" - a value that was used primarily as a basis for trading or purchase rather than what could be made buying/selling as can often be the case today. I've seen in these letters and notes commitments to purchase at percentages higher than the "book" - even when they WROTE the book! Few people other than perhaps paper dealers had thoughts of making money from the hobby and for people like Burdick, Barker, Bray et al it was about the process and history almost as much as it was about the acquisition. About the $ ? - not so much.

[Leon]

another Burdick letter (he doesn't get 5 stars for shipping though )...July 6, 1936.

[Leon]

Burdick Letter..July 11, 1936..still straightening out the mess he caused but it's too darned hot to do much (and I agree with him....)

[buchner]

Leon....keep them coming !!!!!!!

[1880nonsports]

email me - hmoses2@comcast.net

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by buchner

Leon....keep them coming !!!!!!!

Yes, please.

[Leon]

Interesting discussion of keeping lists and Burdick is still practicing with his hand stamp on the envelope... Dec 6, 1937

[1880nonsports]

"Burdick is still practicing with his hand stamp on the envelope"

good one Leon )

[barrysloate]

I'm most impressed about the time and effort these guys put into letter writing. Now there's an art that has virtually disappeared. I remember writing hobby letters back in the 80's and 90's, and it was fun to get them and write them. Now it's chatboards and texting. Oh well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm most impressed about the time and effort these guys put into letter writing. Now there's an art that has virtually disappeared. I remember writing hobby letters back in the 80's and 90's, and it was fun to get them and write them. Now it's chatboards and texting. Oh well.

Are you on Facebook?

[CW]

Yep, Barry, there's something about the personal aspect of taking the time to write a letter, and reading a letter in someone's handwriting. It took some time, some effort, some care.

Still, today you can also look at these posts and new threads as letters themselves, just shared in a different medium or format. While things have indeed changed, they've somewhat stayed the same.

It's cool to see how these pioneering collectors would help build each other's collections by simply sending cards to those in need, or trading with those who had the cards on their "wantlist". This still goes on today, but these types of collectors are a rare breed now. I know the guys on OBC still collect and trade this way, and I could think of no better way to enjoy a hobby.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are you on Facebook?

No. And I think I've looked at it maybe once.

[Leon]

July 25th, 1940. Jefferson talks about what will possibly end up contributing to his early demise, his medical issues. He also put out a scarcely seen 1940 Supplement to the 1939 "ACC" as the cost to print another book would be too great. I guess by 1946 it had to be done. Maybe we will see his thoughts in the future? (I only read these as I post them)....Interestingly too, even this leftover paper Burdick used (the back shown below) had a cataloging pattern on it!!

[1880nonsports]

he mentions quite sad in retrospect. It's kind of weird looking back at someone's life through their letters - especially when it involves someone who was basically "just a regular guy" dealing with real life issues and his passions.
Also while a bit obvious in context - I had never considered the added difficulties of communicating and exchanging goods/funds with our European counterparts during the war years beyond what we experience now. Yet another impasse dealt with by the pioneers.
The supplement still missing from my run - eventually hope to add it - maybe I'll get lucky and find the first page to my 1939 ACC too!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

he mentions quite sad in retrospect. It's kind of weird looking back at someone's life through their letters - especially when it involves someone who was basically "just a regular guy" dealing with real life issues and his passions.
Also while a bit obvious in context - I had never considered the added difficulties of communicating and exchanging goods/funds with our European counterparts during the war years beyond what we experience now. Yet another impasse dealt with by the pioneers.
The supplement still missing from my run - eventually hope to add it - maybe I'll get lucky and find the first page to my 1939 ACC too!

Henry- You got that right. And Mr. Burdick was quite the frugal collector too. He always wanted things to stay inexpensive.

Now if someone can help me with a 1944 and 1945 Supplement, it will be most appreciated. Here is the 1940 Supplement Preface (there are approx. 20 pages total).

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm most impressed about the time and effort these guys put into letter writing. Now there's an art that has virtually disappeared. I remember writing hobby letters back in the 80's and 90's, and it was fun to get them and write them. Now it's chatboards and texting. Oh well.

I blame Leon.

Tom C

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Leon

Henry- You got that right. And Mr. Burdick was quite the frugal collector too. He always wanted things to stay inexpensive.

Now if someone can help me with a 1944 and 1945 Supplement, it will be most appreciated. Here is the 1940 Supplement Preface (there are approx. 20 pages total).

LL, do we know FOR CERTAIN if there was a '44 and '45 Supplement??

[Leon]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

LL, do we know FOR CERTAIN if there was a '44 and '45 Supplement??

Hey Greg
I don't personally know, but Burdick and hobby historian Geor.ge Vreche.ck might. I might check with him. I haven't really delved into it (yet) to make sure, I just assume there are '44 and '45's (big assumption). And what is kind of cool, is ole Mr.Burdick might talk about it in one of the upcoming letters? That is pure speculation on my part though as I truly don't read almost any of them until I go to scan them for the board. For yours truly it's kind of exciting reading them.

[Jeffrompa]

Those old mimeograph copy pages bring back some memories . Especially of going to the printer with Dad in Philadelphia . When I was just lad .

[Leon]

Burdick letter Feb 27, 1943

[Leon]

March and April 1943...you can have my extra Plank..

[4815162342]

Wow, Leon! Is that letter referencing Sean's "faded" Plank?

[Leon]

My best guess is no, as there are many examples that display a faded look.

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Wow, Leon! Is that letter referencing Sean's "faded" Plank?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Leon

My best guess is no, as there are many examples that display a faded look.

Oh well, just a thought.

[CW]

Great stuff, Leon -- thanks!

Boy, if Jeff was around today I can just see him arguing with Joe at PSA about his midgraded, taped up T202 Hassans...

"But, Mr. Orlando, with a bit of cellophane they are just like NEW!"

"I'm sorry, Mr. Burdick, but..."

"Don't tell me! I wrote the BOOK on these things!"

OK, maybe not.

[1880nonsports]

really enjoying these! Burdick obviously had a pre-disposition to "checklisting" things as it was apparently the ordered approach he took to his own life - although reading about how this and that was in forever in transit seems to have been a bit frenetic. I imagine he was at times inundated with similar correspondences from a multitude of interested parties and he still managed to keep it "together". I also appreciate the tenor of his assessments and the focus he had - willing to listen but the captain of his ship navigating unchartered waters. That we are here today and still discussing the vagueries and minutia of our beloved cards as well as the man himself, stands as a testimony to the direction and paths he took as well as to the man himself.

[Leon]

There is pure eloquence in your writing, Henry. Thanks.

....more from the "great"-grandfather of our hobby soon.

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

really enjoying these! Burdick obviously had a pre-disposition to "checklisting" things as it was apparently the ordered approach he took to his own life - although reading about how this and that was in forever in transit seems to have been a bit frenetic. I imagine he was at times inundated with similar correspondences from a multitude of interested parties and he still managed to keep it "together". I also appreciate the tenor of his assessments and the focus he had - willing to listen but the captain of his ship navigating unchartered waters. That we are here today and still discussing the vagueries and minutia of our beloved cards as well as the man himself, stands as a testimony to the direction and paths he took as well as to the man himself.

[autograf]

Henry is a renaissance man...............

[parkerj33]

In 1936, what were the 521 cards in t206? doyle ny natl was surely unknown, and certainly Burdick is referencing wagner and plank. I would think magie was known by then as it is more plentiful than either wagner or plank. were the demmit and ohara st. louis versions still unrecognized?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Wow, Leon! Is that letter referencing Sean's "faded" Plank?

I've noticed that a lot of the 350 Series Planks look a bit faded, even washed-out. The 150 Series usually are darker. Maybe that is what Burdick was referring to, a 350 Series Plank.

Daryl, I think that this light blue Plank would appear more than a bit faded to Burdick. But I had the same thought as you when I first read the letter.

[Sean]

I'm also curious about the 521 card complete set.

[mrvster]

[Leon]

Not sure of anything except the first mention from 521 to 522, which I have seen so far, is in the 1942 Supplement to the US Card Catalog (ACC). It states 521 but then goes on to say, in parenthesis the values of certain cards and mentions (467-522). I am still digging and while digging added another letter to post 22 (above) in order to stay in chronological order. Burdick mentions to Wagner (John D) that Edwards is offering $2.00 for a Wagner in #521....

Originally Posted by Sean

I'm also curious about the 521 card complete set.

[Leon]

Jan 1944...arthritis, missing cards, Sporting Lifes, Cracker Jacks....etc...

[Leon]

A jovial but hurting Burdick. And pertaining to some write ups-

"Bray doesn't know the gum stuff well enough to write well about it......." - Burdick

[Leon]

I know it sometimes takes a bit to download but probably less time than each letter took to write.

I believe Mr. Burdick is discussing the design and cover of the 1946 ACC....

[bcornell]

This has been one my favorite threads on this forum, Leon. Greatly appreciate you taking the time to scan and post the letters. The hobby is always evolving, but it's great to know how it got to this point.

Bill

[cardsfan73]

Thanks for sharing these letters Leon. I love reading them! I am glad you and others have been wise enough to save these historical documents.

Scott

[Jay Wolt]

Leon great content, thanks for posting them

[gnaz01]

I never knew Wagner designed the cover, at least that's how I read it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bcornell

This has been one my favorite threads on this forum, Leon. Greatly appreciate you taking the time to scan and post the letters. The hobby is always evolving, but it's great to know how it got to this point.

Bill

Bill et al,
It is my pleasure. I enjoy sharing information about the hobby and it's beginnings. It was a different world back then.

[Leon]

Mr. Burdick discusses a bit about mortality and his utmost thanks for the Wags from Mr. John D Wagner. (no relation to Honus). He also discusses giving his collection away and the selling of cards....as they probably won't go up in value. And as for Mr. Corson, he's a dealer, buy low sell high, which was a in his eyes. (pages 2-4 numbered in upper left)

[Jeffrompa]

Dad and Walter Corson were best friends and I would say my Dad learned from Corson . Dad wasn't just buy low - sell high he is pretty cheap I remember him saying he hesitated buying some HIGH dollar cards for $ 1.00 even into the 1960s .

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jeffrompa

Dad and Walter Corson were best friends and I would say my Dad learned from Corson . Dad wasn't just buy low - sell high he is pretty cheap I remember him saying he hesitated buying some HIGH dollar cards for $ 1.00 even into the 1960s .

Jeff- Your dad told me some great stories about He and Walt when we spoke.
Mr.Burdick said Walt was barely making it, even at trying to get "top" dollar. There isn't anything wrong, then or now, about making an honest buck.

My take on it-
Buy low sell high, or go out of business.

.

[Jeffrompa]

I've never shared this before but I'm sure some people realize it . Back in their day they were buying huge albums of paper , ephemera , baseball cards , currency , postcards whatever . That's how they amassed so much quality material .

[tiger8mush]

Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!